Definitely NOT terraced style! For whatever reason, Phoenix chose to designate their abbreviated slanted consoles as some sort of French style; as designation to which I objectOriginally Posted by LastCorpseStanding
I posted a pic of my home organ a while back, i.e..:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2vazhj4.jpg
Last edited by Clarion; Dec-05-2009 at 05:59.
I have heard a few clips on the Phoenix on Youtube, with this one playing for its own product introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e613Z...eature=related. The initial conclusion is that it seems to sound better than some of the well-known brands. It does sound like Baroque in some cases -- I guess it is English Baroque, refined by Anglo-American neo-Baroque influences, with Romantic stops equipped. It seems to have the articulation there.
Hear this edition of Phoenix Organs playing Wachet Auf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOVnt...eature=related, as well as another playing Jesu, the Joy of Man's Desiring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XvnG04DR8k.
Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-05-2009 at 11:59.
Touted as the "greatest organ recital ever": A seven-thousand-strong audience at the Budapest Synagogue with Xaver Varnus. I am quite surprised they are playing Marc-Antoine's Charpentier in a synagogue, with people clapping ecstatically: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQVxBywJpL4, although I would say no more other than "surprised". Maybe they couldn't find a better organ than that to stage that. But I am still a little surprised. We are talking about the Eurovision tune. Maybe the venue was merely rented out for recital. That's certainly how I should understand it.
But we should know that the truly consecrated space is in the Jewish Temple, which is still awaiting rebuilding.
Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-05-2009 at 12:51.
Pachelbel: 'Vom Himmel hoch da komm ich her' (performed by J. Payne):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39pAT...eature=related.
Clarion,Ntalikeris666,
I tend to be amused by your perception of the constituent essentials of a real organ.We are obviously dealing with a dichotomy of cultural differences separated by distance of a half a world away. In your world, apparently an enormous full sized draw knob console and wooden keys are factors that separate the superior from the inferior.
In my world, where the latest advances in technology are embraced, we have an entirely different view as to the essentials of a real organ. You are familiar with my choice of a slant-sided console, tab stops, and and plastic keys. From your cultural perspective, you may consider my choices repugant; but in my world, where enormous consoles with drawknobs have been replaced with the lastest in 21st century technology: like slant sided consoles with push-button tabs, etal. Take a look; and listen to the Gabriel Kney organ at Toronto's Roy Thomson Hall, and perhaps Canada's foremost concert facility; and home of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5KqahRwNPo
If my choice of organ console design just happens to look a whole lot like the Roy Thomson Hall organ console, you might better understand my choices. That's just the way we do things here in Canada.
And then there is the USA's latest and greatest, the Garden Grove organ designed by Virgil Fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsDZhIZozAs&NR=1
As for the antiquated wooden drawknobs you mention, I don't believe Phoenix (Canada) uses any wood stuff like that in their consoles. I can assure you that the drawknobs used by Phoenix Canada are absolutely amazing. Unlike ancient wooden stuff, the drawknobs used by Phoenix (and I wish I knew the name of the mfg), glide in and out with little effort, almost as if they were born on a cushion of air. All you have to do is push/pull just a little bit in the desired direction, and the draw knob glides effortlessly into the intended postion, all on it's own.
Well yes, i did not express my self correctly.
I did not say that the technology of the organ does not count for me (I dont believe though its because of the Cultural Differences, just personal preferences which may vary in your world as well) but, i said i would appreciate to have an organ, which FEELS more like a Real European and generally Mechanical action one , instead of having an Organ with the best technology available, but with the feel of a Digi or modern one with tabs and keys without any weight . Though of course this is my personal opinion, and i also accept and respect yours as well, so we shouldn't argue about that, because that concerns real organs as well apart from Digital ones.
About the Drawknobs, you cant say that any organ which has non-mechanical knobs (like many old ones -lets say St.Bavokerk with the Famous Muller Organ, or many Silberman and Arp Schnitger ones)
which are harder to push or pull, is bad because of that. Yes, indeed modern mechanical action Knobs (like the ones used in Digital Organs as well which are actually made by 2 companies as far as i am concerned, so Phoenix does not have to do something with that).
For example, in the Concert hall here in Athens, the organ has 75 stops controlled by mechanical knobs like the ones you mentioned as well as all the other components of a modern organ. Still it has Mechanical action keyboards, and Couplers. But i also adore the fully mechanical organs with which you have a more direct interaction, compared to ones with electric action.
Quote:
<<If my choice of organ console design just happens to look a whole lot like the Roy Thomson Hall organ console, you might better understand my choices. That's just the way we do things here in Canada.>>
Well, on the other hand most organs in europe (especially german ones look like mine.
If i had to choose between st.Sulpice organ and Wanamaker, i would go for St.Sulpice. I think you got my way of thinking.
Yes, Content can do combined hybrid as called, organs, which are half real half digital (through Midi) . But Content does not make real pipe organs, even though you can order facades with real pipes ETC.
If they can do a hybrid one, they can build a digitally controlled pipe organ. I guess what you're saying is that that they don't make the metal or wooden pipes. But let's say if I buy readily built windchests from pipe organ companies, I guess Content can mount them onto their digital facilities? But the thing is how far can they do the inter- and intra-rank borrowing? I guess this is what must be found out first.
Felix, that Wachet Auf recording is absolutely awful!If you want to hear some reasonably decent recordings of Phoenix Organs, then go to the Phoenix North Ireland website, containing a couple hours of music played and recorded by Stephen Hamill. He is one of the organists/engineers who originally developed the Phoenix system.
The organ voices used in his organs were probably all sampled by him; and some of the reed samples at the top of the page are his latest and greatest efforts to provide a bit more life to the reeds. The Irish samples are unique to organs in that area. All of the samples in Canadian organs were sampled by Phoenix Canada. While Ireland might now have the advantage with reed stops, I believe Canada has the best flutes and diapasons.
I am almost sure that they are able to do all these, but because i have not searched it myself, i cannot be sure. If you want, i can give you their E-Mail Address so you can ask for yourself if you want.
I've got their e-mail address, the general one. But it would be a good idea if you have a chance to talk to them again, I wonder if you can mention this to see if they can or want to do it. Since I am not doing it now, so I just guess you might like to casually enquire about that for me if you have a chance to talk to them, say, when they deliver your organ, etc. It is not urgent.
Just today when I was surfing the net, I discovered an American guy having built an organ, whose 4' and 2' stops are a fair bit of borrowing from many 8' stops. The borrowing is particularly heavy on the pedal. Apart from 12 original Subbasse pipes, all the rest of the pedal stops are borrowed from the two manuals. Click here to see the stop list and the figures of the pipes listed:http://www.steveodland.com/Specifications_1.html.
The low numbers that you see refer to the small number of additional pipes required to create those stops of 4' and 2'.
Listen to three pieces of music played on this organ during his Christmas party in 2006: http://www.steveodland.com/Music_1.html . They seem to sound fine.
http://www.steveodland.com/Beginnings_1.html records the story about the building process.
The guy provides a series of links, which may help people who want to source their materials and tools for constructing their project. The following are direct quotes from his webpage:
JF Nordlie Organ Builders - Worked with me through every aspect of the project. They built my new windchests, the oak case and have done all the voicing on the organ.
PARTS:
Organ Supply Industries - extensive catalog and suppliers of parts to builders and hobbyists from whole consoles, windchests and pipes to hardware located in Erie, PA
International Organ Supply - sells nice stainless steel tuning slides that fit well and don't corrode. the slides also have a nice flare at the bottom for easy adjustment with the tuning knife. International Organ Supply, P.O. Box 401, Riverside, IL 60546. 800/660-6360. FAX 708/447-0702.
Matters Inc. - makes the chest magnets and solid state relay that I used in the organ, they also make organ pipes out of Aluminum. Matters Inc., HCR 89, Box 184, Hermosa, SD 57744. FAX 605/255-4187.
Solid State Organ Systems - Manufactures control systems for organs. I purchased a Powerlight power supply for 12 volt power and Krone blocks that we used on the relay boards. the Krone blocks are European made and allowed us to make the wire connections from the chest magnets to the relay without soldering.
Arndt Organ Supply - located in Ankeny, IA did all my engraving and stop tabs, does a large business in the theatre organ world with hard to find parts as well as parts for church organs
Peterson Electro-Musical - I purchased my stop tab assemblies for the combination action and pedal contacts from Peterson, Alsip, IL
Harris Technical Products - I visited their shop in Los Angeles for a tour and ordered my crescendo pedal, toe levers and toe pistons. They specialize in custom components for consoles, including entire consoles. When I was visiting I saw the incredible 5 manual console Harris was building for St. Batholomew's Church in New York City. Some of the components made at Harris are keyboards, drawknob assemblies, tilting tablet assemblies, toe levers & pistons and crescendo/expression pedals. The toe levers and wooden toe pistons made of Pau Ferro, I used, are available in many variations of wood and felt trim.
Columbia Organ Leathers - Supplier of leather for use in organ building. I ordered new leather gasket strips to use between the top/bottom boards and the windchest. They were helpful in cutting the leather to the length and width that I needed so it only had to be glued in place.
Klaus Knochel-Lichttechnik - German company that creates music lights for the organ in many styles and finishes. The lights can be ordered with a 12 volt ballast that runs off the console power supply.
Laukhuff GmbH - German supplier of organ parts from consoles to pipes and manufacturer of the Ventus organ blower. The catalog, available on line, is a great reference.
Marc Vogel Tuners - German TLA electronic tuners that are very accurate, have a wide tonal range for tuning organs and both pre-programmed and programmable temperaments.
Newark InOne - Huge catalog with everything you could want in the area of electronics, wire, connectors etc.
PIPES
Eastern Organ Pipes - Located in Hagerstown, MD of many former Moller organ employees. They melt the standard mixtures of tin, lead and other metals to create organ pipes from scratch. They are making my Oboe rank(85 pipes) this fall that I hope to have installed this Spring. Eastern Organ Pipes, PO Box 2388, Hagerstown, MD 21741-2388. 301/797-7922. Fax 301/797-7978.
Gebruder Kas - Bonn, Germany made my Principal and mixture pipes. Pictures from their shop are in the pipework section.
Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-06-2009 at 18:34.
Alright i see.
No problem at all, next time i contact them i will ask them.
About 13 years ago, a friend of mine presented to me a CD on East German organs as a gift. I think it was titled East German Revolution: Historic Organs of the German Democratic Republic. That CD was released to celebrate the removal of the Berlin Wall. There were five songs on it only. That was the first CD on pipe organ music I have ever owned.
The CD is a collection of monumental works. But one of the most monumental of all is Toccata in d-moll BuxWV 155 composed by Dietrich Buxtehude. It is a truly awe-inspiring, mystical rendition of a masterpiece.
In the past couple of days, I'd been reviewing many available versions on Youtube. This version, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4T1qdYmmaM, played by Lorenzo Antinori, as well as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYsRz...eature=related sound closest to the version that I first heard, which was performed on a German Ladegast. It seems to the best amongst those found on Youtube so far. The first link featuring the organ playing was made by an Italian brand named Pinchi back in 1993. Pinchi is currently said to supply pipes to Rodgers for the latter's hybrid organs.
Although I have lauded the voicing the the North German Baroque organs, as a matter of fact, most of the concert hall organs, particularly the ubiquitous Austrian-made Rieger, all have a "neutral" South German Baroque accent, which I believe, is not very much different from the Italian accent.
However, most of the available digital brands, I've found, can hardly emulate the true sound of the Mixture of the South German Baroque school. The digital mixture is mostly depicted as a thin golden voice, that leaves too many holes in the ensemble. The true South German mixture, when mingled with the principal tone ensemble, is a rich voice of stereophonic quality with a great multi-dimensional body of timbres, that conjures up mental images in the listener fine, subtle nuances of a rich melange of complex shades and colour hues of capricious tonal dullness and brightness all blended in the glowing, haunting image of the voice, as the music proceeds.
Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-07-2009 at 07:20.
I've finally figured out how to YouTube some stuff, so I've put together a couple things with the St. George's organ is the background. The pics are just standard Windows samples. Sorry. New computer without any media stored on it yet. Here are the links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSfYjTorLN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHIaL0KC9Mk
I'll try to get more going too.
Have you seen a design whereby a swell box is set within a swell box within another swell box? Well, a company in the US producing German Romantic organs has a new idea of organ expression, that looks like that in the picture. They call it the Schoenstein System.
A good expression box when fully open should not rob the pipes of clear projection and presence to any great degree, but when closed should reduce loudness from at least ff to p. To achieve this, a box must be reasonably sound-proof (with adequate density to control leakage of bass) and must be well sealed when closed; gaps are anathema to good expression-box control. The shades cannot be too thick; their bulk will not permit a full use of the opening. Shades should be able to open nearly 90°. They must be fast-acting and silent. Achieving smooth, continuous expression control is one of the greatest challenges in organ-building. View a Double Expression illustration.
To achieve a continuous dynamic range from fff to ppp we have developed a system of double expression, placing a box within a box. The inner box is placed at the rear of the outer main box so that there is a large air space between the two sets of shades. When both sets of shades are closed, the space contained between them provides a very effective sound-trap. We place the softest and most powerful sounds inside the inner box of the division: for example, a pair of ethereal strings and the Vox Humana; the high-pressure chorus reeds and a mixture. A balanced expression pedal is provided at the console for each box.
On large instruments a switching system allows the organist to select conveniently which shades are to be assigned to each balanced pedal. With the shades not quite fully open, the stops under the inner box are at a normal volume level to balance the rest of the division. With both sets of shades fully closed, the soft stops in the inner box are reduced to near-inaudibility and the chorus reeds are reduced to the level of color reeds. With all shades fully open, the chorus reeds and mixture are slightly louder than those of the Great. The Vox Humana usually has its own shades with a console switch to shift from pp to mf. There are many expressive possibilities with this system. For example, a crescendo may be started using the ethereal strings with both boxes closed, opening the inner box until the level is equal to the soft stops in the outer box, which are then added. The outer box is opened, adding stops in the normal manner while closing the inner box. The chorus reeds and mixture are drawn and the inner box re-opened to complete the crescendo. This is done with ease after a bit of practice.
Organs with double expression can be played in the traditional manner simply by disengaging the double expression feature.
Info source: http://www.schoenstein.com/double-expression.html
You can also visit this site to hear a few pieces of music played on a Schoenstein organ:http://stpaulsivy.org/music/podcasts/.
Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-07-2009 at 00:26.
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