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Thread: Digital Organ Choice

  1. #256
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    Question

    Since most songs start with the tonic, the dominant or the mediant or the submediant, what are the possible preparatory notes preceding the minim rest in the case that a prelude or interlude needs to be played?

    Is it true that for the songs starting with the tonic and dominant, the leading tone (the seventh) can be adopted?

    And how about for songs starting with a mediant, can we say a prolonged supertonic can be used?

    And for a song starting with a submediant, can we say a prolonged leading tone can be adopted as the preparatory note?

    In all the above cases, can we say that by and large a Five-Seven chord can be juxtaposed with either the second or seventh on the top to create that prolonged note?

  2. #257
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    You are right about the 5-7 chord being held. That's certainly a good way to cue the congregation. However, have you also consider a moving cue? For instance, if you are in C+, and your song starts on E, at the end of your interlude, your prep could go G (downbeat), G octave down, C, D, E(Start song). Climb the bass up a third below (G,G,A,B,C). You slightly slow down and pause at the dominant first inversion to cue. For anything starting on the submediant, don't be afraid of the flat seven to cue. It's a natural progression that most people, while not understanding the technical aspect, just know how it works. Our brains have been trained, essentially, to expect an A after hearing a B-flat as a flat seventh. Yes, you can also use this approach to a median entry. For example, in F major, the B-flat leads to the A. In C major, the B-flat (in a tonic plus flat seven chord) still suggests the A.

    You should play around with some moving cues to see if you can come up with something you like. Even try an experiment with a choir, or someone who is somewhat musical, to see if they can guess which note is to be sung after your cue. I think you'll see that they get it right most of the time. I noticed, as I improvised softly before choir rehearsals, sometimes the choir members would be able to hum the next note I was going to play before I played it, just because of the suggestive nature of the passage.

    Hope this helps

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelixLowe View Post
    .

    Also, I think I would have preferred no chordal change on the word "raise" in Verse 2 because I don't quite know what the organist wanted to insinuate. There was a hint of doubt or perplexion over the nuance that overlays the word in the changed chord. I have no idea what the organist had in mind. He could have just played the original chord for better effects there. I must say he was rather uncreative on that particular occasion.
    I agree. The chord change made no sense in the manner it was done. Had he continued with the reharmonization, following a chord structure that complimented the change, I wouldn't mind, but as it was, he just went back to the standard, and the trip back sounded awkward. It's almost as if he changed the chord, realized that there was no way to salvage it and get back in key, and just reverted regardless of the mismatch.

    And yes, his cues, or lack thereof, were awful. Clearly the congregation was caught off guard at the start of Verse 2.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastCorpseStanding View Post
    I agree. The chord change made no sense in the manner it was done. Had he continued with the reharmonization, following a chord structure that complimented the change, I wouldn't mind, but as it was, he just went back to the standard, and the trip back sounded awkward. It's almost as if he changed the chord, realized that there was no way to salvage it and get back in key, and just reverted regardless of the mismatch.

    And yes, his cues, or lack thereof, were awful. Clearly the congregation was caught off guard at the start of Verse 2.
    He sort of didn't blend that chord in the rest of he had been playing, and he basically worked against the semiotics of the word "raise". That's all. That's why I said he would have sounded better if he just played the original. As you said, he could have played a progression. But all he did sounds like a sudden change in just one chord.

    About the absence of any preparatory cue, I guess the task was lef to the choir at the back and the clergy to lead the singing. Obviously I don't think every one from around the world would have heard that song before. So the absence of cues didn't help at all.

    I last used this song in 1983-4, and never got to sing it again thereafter. It was not in our standard hymn book, but was in the Primary 5 Music textbookm, not as a hymn, but as a very rough translation of the Welsh song. But the last time I really heard it was about 10 years ago, where Ahlborn Galanti used it for demonstrating its Holzgedackt on its old website. It played as a duo with many ascending and descending scales on the left hand. I guess Ahlborn wanted the song to demonstrate the chiff in that stop. It is mellifluous one, and it did sound quite grand on the organ when played in chords.
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-23-2009 at 21:32.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastCorpseStanding View Post
    You are right about the 5-7 chord being held. That's certainly a good way to cue the congregation. However, have you also consider a moving cue? For instance, if you are in C+, and your song starts on E, at the end of your interlude, your prep could go G (downbeat), G octave down, C, D, E(Start song). Climb the bass up a third below (G,G,A,B,C). You slightly slow down and pause at the dominant first inversion to cue. For anything starting on the submediant, don't be afraid of the flat seven to cue. It's a natural progression that most people, while not understanding the technical aspect, just know how it works. Our brains have been trained, essentially, to expect an A after hearing a B-flat as a flat seventh. Yes, you can also use this approach to a median entry. For example, in F major, the B-flat leads to the A. In C major, the B-flat (in a tonic plus flat seven chord) still suggests the A.

    You should play around with some moving cues to see if you can come up with something you like. Even try an experiment with a choir, or someone who is somewhat musical, to see if they can guess which note is to be sung after your cue. I think you'll see that they get it right most of the time. I noticed, as I improvised softly before choir rehearsals, sometimes the choir members would be able to hum the next note I was going to play before I played it, just because of the suggestive nature of the passage.

    Hope this helps
    That was what I mean. The organist in that video playing a prelude could play freely until the last few chords which would be I guess what you termed as a moving cue. A series of chords pregressing towards the end of the prelude, each chord having a crotchet's value, would move to the prolonged one (At the place where the Kleuker, the Yale-trained organist and the other woman, a music teacher were very good at that). But the last chord has to be sufficiently lengthened to signal the imminent start after a minim rest, and then the song would start.

    Also, you were saying is that if a song starts with a mediant, the last chord cueing it can feature something that has a subdominant in the soprano?
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-23-2009 at 21:24.

  6. #261
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    At the place where the Kleuker was, I heard this song twice at Christmas Eve for two years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQYLuljT4GQ. I wonder even there is a registrational idea for this song, which has five verses.

    How about this way of playing it:

    Thou didst....
    Manual: Principal 8, Rohrflote 8', Octave 4', Nasard 2 2/3' and Waldflote 2'; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for chorus.
    Pedal: Subbasse 16', Gedackt 8' and Choralbass 4'

    Heaven's arches rang....
    Manual and Pedal: Same as Verse 1

    The foxes....
    Manual and Pedal: Same as Verse 1

    Thou camest,....
    Manual: Verse 1 registration + Octave 2'; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for chorus.
    Pedal: same as Verse 1

    When the heavens ring....
    Manual: For final Verse: Verse 1 registration + Octave 2' and Mixture IV; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for the chorus.
    Pedal: Verse 1 registration + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4'.
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-23-2009 at 23:00.

  7. #262
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    Kommst du nun, Jesu, vom Himmel herunter, BWV 650: http://www.virtuallybaroque.com/audio/bwv650_een2s.mp3. This transcription is derived from the second verse (alto solo) of Cantata 137, "Lobe den Herren, den mächtigen König der Ehren." Bach chose a different set of words for this chorale, though.

    Registration: Man 2: Holpyp 8' + Holpyp 4' + Octaav 2'; Man 1 Trompet 8' (played an octave higher as a 4' reed in the Pedal might be). Temperament: Silbermann Erfurt Dom. Instrument: The Arp Schnitger organ at Eenum in Groningen, The Netherlands (1704) - Samples by Hauptwerk.nl
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 06:31.

  8. #263
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    Christe, Aller Welt Trost, BWV 673: http://zionorgan.com/vb/mp3/bwv673_bz3.mp3. Instrument: Buzard Opus 3 (1986) - Samples by Brett Milan
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 16:40.

  9. #264
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    Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern (by Johann Pachelbel): http://zionorgan.com/vb/mp3/pach_wsl_ss4ch.mp3. Chorale melody motives used in the manuals, full chorale in the pedal at half speed. Instrument: Marcussen & Son Organ / St. Stefanuschurch / Moerdijk (Noord-Brabant, The Netherlands) (1965) - Samples by Ariaan Hoogendijk.

    English-language text:
    How beauteous beams the morning star
    With truth and blessing from the Lord,
    The darling root of Jesse!
    Thou, David's son of Jacob's stem,
    My bridegroom and my royal king,
    Art of my heart the master,
    Lovely,
    Kindly,
    Bright and glorious, great and righteous, rich in blessings,
    High and most richly exalted.
    --Z. Philip Ambrose, translator
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 18:14.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelixLowe View Post
    At the place where the Kleuker was, I heard this song twice at Christmas Eve for two years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQYLuljT4GQ. I wonder even there is a registrational idea for this song, which has five verses.

    How about this way of playing it:

    Thou didst....
    Manual: Principal 8, Rohrflote 8', Octave 4', Nasard 2 2/3' and Waldflote 2'; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for chorus.
    Pedal: Subbasse 16', Gedackt 8' and Choralbass 4'

    Heaven's arches rang....
    Manual and Pedal: Same as Verse 1

    The foxes....
    Manual and Pedal: Same as Verse 1

    Thou camest,....
    Manual: Verse 1 registration + Octave 2'; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for chorus.
    Pedal: same as Verse 1

    When the heavens ring....
    Manual: For final Verse: Verse 1 registration + Octave 2' and Mixture IV; + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' for the chorus.
    Pedal: Verse 1 registration + Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4'.
    It would in fact be a better idea to play the whole Verse on "Heaven's arches rang" with the Gedackt 8' and Spitzflote 4' coupled, so no manual change would be necessary for the chorus. The transition from the beginning verse to "Heaven's arches rang" would thus be more artistically supportive with more sufficient tonal strength and volume appropriate for "Heaven's arches rang" without the need for a change for tone-setting for the intial verses.

    Then the stops will be uncoupled again for the verse starting with "The Foxes...."
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 17:20.

  11. #266
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    Du Friedefürst, Herr Jesu Christ, BWV 1102: http://zionorgan.com/vb/mp3/bwv1102_fbr_hw2_100.mp3. Instrument: Schantz at First Baptist Church of Riverside, California (1966) sampled by Jonathan Orwig

    English-language text:
    Thou Prince of peace, Lord Jesus Christ,
    True man and very God,
    A helper strong in need thou art
    In life as well as death.
    So we alone
    In thy dear name
    Are to thy Father crying.
    --tr. Z. Philip Ambrose
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-25-2009 at 06:02.

  12. #267
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    Werde munter, mein Gemüte, BWV 1118: http://zionorgan.com/vb/mp3/bwv1118_glc.mp3. The melody more famous as "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" plays hide and seek, switches meters, explores medieval harmony briefly and ends as sweetly as it began. From the Neumeister Chorale Collection. Instrument: Casavant, Opus 3246 (1975) at Grace Lutheran Church, Champaign, Illinois - Samples by Brett Milan

    English-language text:
    Wake up, my mind,
    and come forth you senses,
    so you praise God's goodness
    which he has accomplished for me,
    for he has supported and protected me
    the entire day from many worries and distresses,
    so that Satan doesn't defile me.
    --Tr. composite

  13. #268
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    Der Tag der ist so freudenreich (by Johann Pachelbel): http://www.oldorg.net/ehrlich/pach_dtdisf_ehrr.mp3.
    Manuals only, starting on Hauptwerk (Principal 8' + Quintatoene 8' + Octav 4' + Quint 2 2/3' + Superoctav 2'), going to Positiv (Grossgedackt 8' + Spizfloete 4' + Octav 2 + Mixtur 3 Fach) for a short repeated section, returning to the Hauptwerk, to which the Positiv is now coupled. Impulse reverberation added Instrument: Johann Adam Ehrlich organ at Evangelische Stadtkirche / Bad Wimpfen, Germany (1748) - Samples by Gernot Wurst
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 19:35.

  14. #269
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    Marie-Claire Alain speaks about Johann Sebastian Bach's (1685-1750)
    chorales and demonstrates an excerpt of the Christmas chorale "Der Tag, der ist so freudenreich" BWV 605 at the Silbermann organ of the Georgenkirche in Rötha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4cXZTgBIE.

    Alain plays three Christmas chorales of J S Bach:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDAWH6L1Q4A:

    Puer natus in Bethlehem BWV 603
    Der Tag, der ist so freudenreich BWV 605
    Vom Himmel hoch, da komm ich her BWV 606
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-24-2009 at 21:56.

  15. #270
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    John Hong plays Fantasia on Joy to the World and demonstrates the 4-manual Allen Organ at a 2002 Concert at New York Trinity Baptist Church, Juilliard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMSRn0x1_uQ.

    For the hymn proper, I personally prefer the following registrations:

    Joy to the World....
    Manual: Principal 8', Gedackt 8', Octave 4', Twelfth 2 2/3, Spitzflote 2', Waldflote 2'
    Pedal: Subbass 16', Gedackt 8', Choralbass 4

    Joy to the Earth.... (A slight variation should be played with some quaver pedalling)
    Manual: The original registration + Oboe 8' and Clarion 4'
    Pedal: Original registration + Trumpet 8'

    No more let sins....
    Manual: Second verse registration with Clarion 4' off
    Pedal: Revert to first verse registration

    He rules the world.... (plays the second verse variation again)
    Manual: Verse three registration + Sifflote 1' and Mixture V
    Pedal: Verse 2 registration + Fagott 16'
    Last edited by FelixLowe; Dec-25-2009 at 15:56.

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