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Digital Organ Choice

Clarion

New member
Do the sounds come out as English Baroque like the Rodgerses in general, or South German Baroque in the Austrian style, like the ordinary Ahlborn? I might think it could be a kind of a neo-Baroque like the post-1950 American Aeolian Skinner.

But after I have heard some of the music from this link: http://www.phoenixorgans.com/recordings.htm provided by the brand's website, I can confirm that its Baroque voicing is, no doubt, in the English Baroque style.

I have absolutley no knowledge of English Baroque. The term conjures visions of the works of Henry VIII being played on a kazoo, accompanied by a harpsicord. :rolleyes:

There are a couple hours or more of Phoenix samples located on their Irish website:

http://www.phoenix-organs.co.uk/audio.html

You won't find any N German sounds there! It's English Romantic all the way, regardless of what they are playing. :bawl:
 

FelixLowe

New member
Hi there,

Recently, however, it has come to my knowledge as I stumbled across a German company dealing in a brand called Gloria digital organs, that has some higher models boasting sampling from a specific historical German Baroque Silbermann organ. Is there any one for Silbermann here?

The Silbermann organs had characteristically strong chiffing, like the North German organs, but they did not have the lean voicing to the same degree. But they had golden Mixtures.

Regards
Felix
 

Clarion

New member
I can confirm that its Baroque voicing is, no doubt, in the English Baroque style. It is the kind of voicing one could have heard around 1700 from Queen Anne's time up to the Great Exhibition of 1851 and perhaps beyond. It was also the common voicing in the United States in the 19th century, such as the Hook and Hastings pipe organs.

Since 54% of the United States population has German roots; you would figure that Germanic culture would predominate. Albeit, the German pioneers may have been uncultured workhorses, who did the grunt work, clearing land etal, and then selling the improved land to cultured pantywaist English who didn't want to get their lace cuffs dirty. :eek: Much of the German emmigration to America was heavily promoted and financed by Queen Anne. She wanted a presence in the Colonies to offset the French before the French took over everything! She sent promotional stuff all down the Rhine, inviting Rhinelanders to enjoy a free trip to the Colonies.

What better antagonists to send to the Colonies, than the Rhinelanders who had been at war with the French forever, fighting over possession of Alsace Lorraine. They hated not only the French, but the papist Medici controlled French monarchy. And from such, came our United Empire Loyalists who during the American Revolution, remained loyal to the Crown, their British benefactor. In 1800, there were only 4 counties in Ontario, with names like: Darmstadt, Nassau, Hesse, or something like that; and in York County, school was taught in German. :smirk:

But when it comes to Canadian organs, the irony is, that most of them are built by the French: Casavant, LeTorneau, etal. [/quote]
 

Clarion

New member
Recently, however, it has come to my knowledge as I stumbled across a German company dealing in a brand called Gloria digital organs, that has some higher models boasting sampling from a specific historical German Baroque Silbermann organ. Is there any one for Silbermann here?

IIRC, they sell Hauptwerk samples.
 

FelixLowe

New member
Hello Clarion,

But in this day and age, the South German voicing of a highly devotional character depicting a brightness against the backdrop of meditative mysteriousness is passe, and the English Baroque painting the grandeur is just an imperial past.

I much prefer the streamlined tonal character of the North German Baroque school. There is no spitty noises; the overall tonal design is lean, voguish, chic, colourful with a pastel tint to it. There is no mysterious nuance to any of its speech. Albeit so old a tradition, the North German Baroque sounds come like a new modern voice. The Cymbel is also golden and elegant. There is also a special loveliness to the Kaleidescope of ensembles and single-stop playing. To it a Festival Trumpet, a Harmonic Trumpet and a Concert Flute can be added in a custom design to play the English works.

The Festival Trumpet is, I am sure you are aware, for playing the solo line in certain English wedding pieces by Purcell and the like. Most Contents seem to have the Gamba, so adding the Bourdon and Concert Flute 4' can create an English Romantic voice if a work calls for it. The buzzing Harmonic Trumpet is called for in some works in both accompaniment for congregational singing, as well as some Medieval English organ works if the passages call for it. But the Harmonic Trumpet is probably what you could already acheive on a North German Baroque organ by drawing its Oboe, Trumpet and the Vox Humana together. So it may not be necessary.

So my choice is still Content after looking around:
http://www.sakralorgelwelt.de/content/klangbeispiele/index.html. The models at D5000 and above are, to me, basically the digitisation of the Marcussen and Son's organs of Denmark. But even so, I think I would only trust the Mondri Classics because they have 18 or so speakers in them. I think this is a major reason why the two in the series sound so much more realistic than the rest.

Regards
Felix
 
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Perhaps if you're looking for something in the N German line, you need to convince your organ builder to sample the Wolff organ in Knox College at U of Toronto. Or better yet, try to get a chance to play it. I was lucky enough to get to play it not long after the installation as part of a masterclass for one of my courses. They even made us pump the bellows. And the fogelsang is a piece of work. I just couldn't get used to the flat pedal board.
 

Clarion

New member
And since you said every Phoenix is custom-made, did you hand-pick those stops for the "four organs" in it, or they had some set menus for you to choose from? Also, is it a fixed policy that a customer must swallow all four organs in one in every purchase? Do they charge less if the customer only wants to buy one sample set of his or her choice?

I didn't hand pick any stops for my organ. I just went with one of their tried and proven designs which have proved to be popular. Some of them are listed here:

http://phoenixorgans.com/productsTabOrgans.htmlhttp://phoenixorgans.com/installation.php?installation=57

I have no special skills that would allow me to design a better organ than Phoenix could design. Although I could have tweaked the specs to something I thought I might have liked better, there was lot's of time to do that after I got the organ, and could try out different stops. The organ contains over 200 voices available for swapping and assigning to the various stop tabs. I've done a bit of experimenting with mine, but it's pretty hard to improve upon the initial design.

At the other end of the range of customization would be this organ

http://phoenixorgans.com/installation.php?installation=57

In this instance, many of voice samples for this home organ were sampled from the church where the customer is the organist.

There is no policy that a customer must swallow all four organs in one in every purchase; although I expect that the amont saved by eliminating a few sound cards would be insignificant. This installation has only two organ specs, Dutch and Baroque, plus the orchestral stuff"

http://phoenixorgans.com/installation.php?installation=64

Doesn't sound like a very romantic setup. :)

Where the cost goes up, is providing the extra horsepower to accomodate additional stops. My 44 stop organ is probably the sweet spot, since that's about as many stops as a standard tab stop organ can physically accomodate without having to incorporate expensive changes inside and out.
 

FelixLowe

New member
Hello there,

Because of the rarity of English Baroque organs today, I want to cite an audio here to illustrate what I mean by the English Baroque style. This is particularly for Clarion's comparision to how the Phoenix's Baroque section sounds. There are variations of tonal quality of various brands of pipe organs built in that period in the UK, but they generally sound characteriscally broad, enriching and slightly raucous when heard near to it. And their principal tones often have a slightly horn-like or stringy quality in general. Some of these voices would definitely have appeared at the organs of the 1851 Great Exhibition.

This one is an English Baroque at Norfolk, Hillington St. Mary the Virgin (built by Johannes Snetzler in 1756) playing Handel, G.F. Concerto Op.4 no.1, Hallelujah Chorus (duet) arr. Marsh:http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N06361. The full organ with Sesquialtera gives brilliance with great clarity while the long compass provides depth and grandeur.

But this next one is a Romantic organ (built by T C Lewis in 1868) at St. John Suffolk, Wenham: http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N01725 playing G.F. Handel (1685-1759) arr. Henry Smart (1813-1879) Chorus "For unto us a Child is born" (Messiah)

You can visit the British Organ Institute site repertoire list here: http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/hosa_info.shtml, and you can locate the works and find much more music to listen to. Stoplists are also available for reference.

Regards
Felix
 
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Hello Clarion. In all honesty, you don't need special skills to design a better organ. You just need your own personal experience of what works, and what your own personal preferences are. That being said, I've mentioned before that Phoenix organs come closest in their stop lists to what I would choose for myself if I were designing from scratch. I took a look at the pt243 specs, and there are really only a couple things that I would change on that organ.

For instance, the Ped and Gt open diapasons would become principals, the Swell Cornopean would be a Trompette. I'd probably take the Hrm Flute from the Great and make it a 4', with a Rohrflute 8'. Change the Swell 4' flute to a Chimney flute. I prefer a Geigen Diapason on the Swell.

You should always take careful consideration of your choice of 32'. With really good subwoofers, you can get away with a ContraBourdon or the like, otherwise, you have to go with the Contrabasse. The principal sound is easier for the lesser speakers to handle. Other than those minor changes, that spec is a great two manual, and I've only suggested changes that are more personal preference. (You will find, if you look, that the Great and Swell are substantially similar to what I put together for St. George's Ajax.)

Your right about memory constraints on extra stops. You also have to realize that you can't always just exchange a stop with something else. Some take more memory than others.

Compare the standard specs of a PT243 to those of any Allen, Rodgers and Ahlborn or similar size, and you'll see a huge difference in the stop lists. The one requirement I have, that most organ builders seem to resist, is the 8' diapason of some sort on the Swell. Combining the flute and gamba to manufacture one is just not the same.
 

FelixLowe

New member
Hi Organ Scholar,

I wonder if you could advise on the Quintedena 16. Many North German organs include it. But exactly what does it do? Is it to be used like the Bombarde 16 both for ensemble and solo playing? Would you advise including it or dropping it, since I find Principal 16 appearing more often in sheet music?

Thanks
Felix
 

Clarion

New member
I took a look at the pt243 specs, and there are really only a couple things that I would change on that organ.

For instance, the Ped and Gt open diapasons would become principals, the Swell Cornopean would be a Trompette. I'd probably take the Hrm Flute from the Great and make it a 4', with a Rohrflute 8'. Change the Swell 4' flute to a Chimney flute. I prefer a Geigen Diapason on the Swell.

That sounds a whole lot closer to the Phoenix Baroque specs I previously posted; whereas the published specs you are looking at for the PT243 are for the Romantic spec. So perhaps, like me, you would probably set up the organ with Baroque as default. Of course your preferred stops are all on the sound cards, and easy to change.

As for the swell Diapasons, unlike the Choir and Great Diapasons, Phoenix uses prominent diapasons with narrower more horn like characteristics, making it quite useful for solo work.

This is the default Romantic list for my III/44, with a lot of Harrison & Harrison stuff.

Romantic Spec
Great
1 Bourdon 16 sc
2 Open Diapason 8 h
3 Stopped Diapason 8 h
4 Gemshorn 8 as
5 Octave 4 h
6 Harmonic Flute 4 bp
7 Super Octave 2 sj
8 Fourniture IV bp
9 Trumpet 8 sp

Choir
1 Principal 8 t
2 Chimney Flute 8 h
3 Unda Maris II 8 t
4 Prestant 4 t
5 Spire Flute 4 icm
6 Nazard 2-2/3 h
7 Block Flute 2 h
8 Tierce 1-3/5 h
9 Scharf III sc
10 Cor Anglais 8 as
11 Clarinet 8 sp
12 Tuba 8 sp

Swell
1 Open Diapason 8 sj
2 Lieblich Gedeckt 8 sp
3 Salicional 8 h
4 Voix Celeste 8 h
5 Principal 4 sj
6 Stopped Flute 4 ms
7 Flageolet 2 ch
8 Mixture IV t
9 Double Trumpet 16 sp
10 Cornopean 8 ch
11 Oboe 8 h
12 Clarion 4 sp
 

Clarion

New member
Hello Clarion. In all honesty, you don't need special skills to design a better organ. You just need your own personal experience of what works, and what your own personal preferences are.

LastCorpseStanding, I'm talking about the ability to design and organ from scratch. I can't do that any more than I could design a new house from scratch; although I do have at least some ability to peruse various architectural drawings; pick out the plan that most appeals to me; and then perhaps do a little fine tweaking to make it more to my liking. In actual practice, I've never even been able to do that. I've never bought a house that I couldn't experience first hand, and try to envision how that would work for me.

Designing an organ would be even more challenging: without first being able to hear the voicing options individually as well as in ensemble. Stop names are often less than informative. The idea that a-diapason-is-a-diapason-is-a-diapason, is simply not true any more than when buying a car, that a Ford-is-a-Ford-is-a-Ford! Diapasons are just as diverse as Fords.

So . . . I am of the opinion that the prudent approach would be to rely on the organ architects who are not only experienced performing artists, but are familiar with each and every sound sample they have recorded, in isolation as well as contextually significant ensemble relating to all of the other voices selected for an organ.

'Course, just like choosing an architect's house plan and tweaking the final product to serve my specific needs; the same applies to organ selection. I don't have any problem in tweaking an already great organ to better meet my personal proclivities.

We have a couple of organ manufacturers in our neighbourhood: Classic Organ, whose area of expertise seems to be electronics; And Phoenix Organ, whose area of expertise seems to be music. Guess which one produces the most musical instrument! ;) Not that Classic's electronic ability was all that great. With my Classic Organ, normal monthly maintenance included replacing fried final/output transistors. :smirk:

Quite apart from the voicing hoopala, IMO the most critical aspect of a well designed organ, is definitely the tuning. I am not up to date on Classic's current efforts, but in the past, their ability to artistically tune an instrument was abysmal. :rolleyes: Your mention of Don being a piano tuner, although enlightening, is not at all surprising. When scouting for a new organ on the internet:

1. Be VERY cautious of organ manufacturers who talk endlessly about their product; but provide absolutely no sound samples! There is a valid reason for this;

2. When perusing organ manufacturer demos, avoid placing any credibility to manufacturers who find it necessary to mask the sound of inferior instruments in a sea of reverberation;

3. While voicing can be munged, when scouting out a new organ, the thing I almost entirely focused upon, was the tuning of the instrument. While Classic Organ, who is now basically dead-in-the-water offerred absolutely NO sound samples of their instruments; Phoenix on the other hand, provided more musical samples of their instruments than ANY other manufacturer.

When listening to Phoenix sound samples, while mentally filtering out the voices, the thing I focused in upon was the tuning revealed in the samples. While Classic Organ holds the honours for the worst abysmally un-artistically "tuned" organ I've ever heard since frequency-divider days; Phoenix came out the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. The difference between electronic experts and musical experts is that musical experts have the added ability to create musical instruments rather than mere electronik instruments.
 
It's funny, Clarion, that you mention the old Classics. Not long after the new Classic/Walker was installed at St. George's, I was asked to play a mini recital for a pow-wow at the Classic shop, and I drew Opus 310, which was their main show instrument, and the one they rented out when need be. St. George's had, in fact, used that same organ while waiting for C750 to be completed. After the recital, someone in attendance came up to me a remarked,"You looked like you were trying to get something out of it that wasn't there." 310 wasn't a bad instrument, and was running 24 channels, but that comment speaks volumes as well about the quality of the Walker samples in C750. Short of Marshall and Ogletree, there isn't anything out there that competes.

When that organ was built, it was my understanding that Classic pretty much knew their samples were outdated, and rather than try to update, they chose to import. Bob Walker came up and voiced the organ himself, and then myself and a couple of the Classic people went and undid his work. We started by knocking the general volume down to about three quarters of where it started, and then fine tuned. I really suggest you phone Helen at the church and ask if you can come try it out. Just tell her Steve sent you. If the budget was there, I'd never hesitate to use Walker again. There's a quality to the samples that I just can't describe. You're right in that Classic has had some bad voicing years, but they've had some good ones too.

The snag on the Walker is the cost. You pay through the nose for that stuff. St. G's paid about $120 thousand for that, and Classic didn't bill us for the upgrade to the Walker. No one would actually tell me how much more it cost, but it was substantial.

On another front, I played an earlier generation Hauptwerk a couple years back, and it showed promise at the time. From what I've read, the samples are getting better with each generation, and the platform itself is improving pretty rapidly. It wouldn't surprise me if Hauptwerk surpasses even Walker within a couple generations.

I think we're starting to see the repercussions of M&O Epiphany Organ at Trinity Wall Street. We may look back on it down the road and realize that its caused a fundamental shift in the way digital organs are built. Given how heavily software based organs are now, especially with their voicing capabilities, it's not a big step to move the samples in to the PC/Mac platform. Eventually, we'll see the systems expand to the point where they will run such massive amounts of RAM, that the HDD won't have anything to do once the samples are loaded into memory. If what I've heard is correct, and Phoenix has already tried to run Hauptwerk through a standard console, then they realize where the industry is going, and may be trying to position themselves accordingly in the market.

I love the idea of HW in a standard console. Redesign the stop jambs to have touch screens instead of drawknobs, and special pistons that are programmed to call up a new sample set, all by pushing one button instead of having to navigate the software. I may be wrong, but I think the console interface is one of the stumbling blocks that companies have to overcome. I don't see Allen or Rodgers having anything to do with HW right now, especially as they've both brought out new lines fairly recently, so Phoenix could find themselves in an enviable position if they get a jump on it. I know Classic has a complete package available with desk and all. I suppose if you place an empty console shell around the equipment, it would still look like a regular console to the congregation, and you can overcome at least the aesthetic issue. And you could give new life to an otherwise old, broken down console that would otherwise be scrapped.
 

FelixLowe

New member
One way to design an organ is to look at some of the available stops that exist and cut and paste whatever you desire into the stoplist you desire. As a matter of fact, there is no hard-and-fast rule: it all depends on what kind(s) and periods of music you want to play. Personally, although I prefer North German voicing, I would design a kind of eclectic concert organ so that it is possible to deploy some stops called for in the sheet music.

In the past, I made use of two of the Ahlborn modules (see the stoplists above) and one Allen module to create my organ. It worked fine for many years. But the Ahlborn 201 is the only stoplist which can be said to be a complete South German Baroque organ, albeit a small one. But its stoplist can be used as a starting point to design an organ.

In my case, for instance, where I don't have a religion for a few years now, what has been left to my memory is a number of good pieces of organ music, some composed from the UK, some Germany and the Netherlands. And I have even stumbled across some good Jewish organ music on compact discs. So In that case, nothing except a self-designed organ can satisfy the playing of those pieces. In fact many concert halls are now equipped with organs of eclecticism because a concert hall is not a church, or a synagogue. So in that case, definitely you need to design your own organ, depending on what music you aspire to study. To me, I am no musician, but even then, I will have to design my own by looking at many stoplists, and singling out some stops which are thrown in just because I want to satisfy the stop requirements of certain pieces.

One area which I have not studied in depth is the requirements for French music. In the past I have heard some organists having some comments regarding playing French music on the Rieger. This shows that there may be different requirements for French music; but I guess the question has to do with certain types of French Fournitures and the need for a Clairon 4'. But maybe the organ scholar can resolve this.
 
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Clarion

New member
Perhaps if you're looking for something in the N German line, you need to convince your organ builder to sample the Wolff organ in Knox College at U of Toronto. Or better yet, try to get a chance to play it. I was lucky enough to get to play it not long after the installation as part of a masterclass for one of my courses. They even made us pump the bellows. And the fogelsang is a piece of work. I just couldn't get used to the flat pedal board.

Sort of reminds me of an unforgetable organ recording Bob Kerr featured on his CBC organ day broadcast some thirty years ago. The album was: Old Polish Pipe Organs; and what a delight they were! Especially enchanting, were the the reeds (regals?) which buzzed and rattled all at the same time. If the muffler on your car sounded like that, you would prioritize getting it in for repairs. I've always wanted a Baroque organ that sounded like that, but Phoenix didn't have anything that approximated my bizzare description.

I am not at all familiar with Wolff organ in Knox College, but it would seem to offer a similar kind of delightful experience that the old polish pipe organs did . . . something that might thrill organists, but beyond that, whose charm would probably be lost on anyone else.

I would presume that in the infancy of digital sampling, that most of the effort will be expended in sampling the mass appeal kind of stuff. The N German stuff that so thrills Felix, probably fits into the same category, of stuff potential customers are not lining up to buy. I've even heard organists expressing dismay at the harsh strident characteristics of early German efforts.

Although I truly enjoy Baroque above most other music, I'm not sure if I would appreciate or enjoy the harsh realities of some of their early instruments. I am satisfied that current moderate neo Baroque compromise tends to make almost everyone happy all round. If early Baroque was all that great, it would have crossed cultural barriers all across Europe; but it didn't!
 

organloft

New member
I'm looking for a home practice organ (I've currently got a Viscount Cantorum which is fine to use for choir practices etc). Yesterday, I played a Copeman Hart in a locac church. Very impressive with excellent voicing. Falls down a bit on tutti, but certainly the best digital organ I've played to date.

N

(I'm in England, BTW)
 

FelixLowe

New member
I've just visited the Copeman Hart website http://www.copemanhart.co.uk/index.htm in Britain; they seem to make custom-made instruments only. Their homepage says the following:

"Founded in 1960, Copeman Hart enjoys an international reputation for producing not only the most pipelike sounds but the most comfortable, authentic consoles.

"Our approach to organ building, and sales ethics, has always been more akin to that of the traditional organ builder than to agents or retailers. All organs are individually designed and custom-built in Irthlingborough to traditional pipe organ standards, using many pipe organ components. Consoles are built to match the type and colour of timber in the client's building, and are superior to many pipe organ consoles.

"Our long association with, and research into, digital systems, coupled with our use of the most advanced hardware, means that the software and data that we have developed from within our own resources gives results which are greatly superior to those obtained with cheaper or 'sampled' instruments.

"The philosophy of the company has always been to make the best imitation of the pipe organ. Whilst acknowledging the superiority of a good pipe organ, it is a sad fact that some churches just cannot afford the many tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds sometimes necessary to install or restore a good pipe organ. There is, therefore, an established need for electronic organs at which organists feel at home, and which make convincing pipelike sounds."

But I wonder how they generate the sounds if they are not using sampling. Could they be using the real time sythesising technology? But if they do, how much more can they guarantee autheticity? Honestly I feel the maker should include more information about their technology if they say their instruments are not sampling-based. Then, what is it? Or else, they should set up a audio repertoire played on their organs and include the highest quality MP3 for their potential clientele's preview. So far, I have previewed a few excerpts on Youtube, such as this one on Love Divine All Loves Excelling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DrKvvA9kw. My conclusion, as far as those videos are concerned, is that it is a South German Baroque tradition, with the addition of Festival Trumpet (or a Tuba Mirabilis, rather) and the like, to make it suited to playing certain English repertoire. But I also notice that the rumbling bass is more of the softer Posaune type than a Bombarde 16'. But maybe it has the latter, too. So it could be a typically large instrument of English stop disposition, that usually contains perhaps the Cor Anglai, French Horn and Clarinet, etc. However, the principal tones and the mixtures and the Cymbel remain those having a heavy slant towards the South German Baroque accent. To me overall, it sounds like it has a style not unlike the Allen organ in its traditional voicing.

And another page in their portal continues: "It is important to note that a Copeman Hart organ does not become obsolete: our digital system is software based, which means we can (and do) continually incorporate the improvements that we make in voicing techniques, not only in new organs but retrospectively in our earlier instruments. Also, as new and faster hardware is developed, it is always compatible with our earlier digital organs. Thus a policy of on-going improvement does not necessitate the development of new 'models' but ensures that every organ we make is able to be up-dated. Some of our older analogue organs (all of which are still serviceable with modern components) have been 'digitised' at minimal cost when the client has wished to take advantage of our superior digital voicing."

This brand is quite new to me, although they say they started their business in 1960. Certainly, here in Hong Kong, formerly a long-time British Crown land (even currently so in parts), we certainly have seldom seen or heard one. It may be worthwhile to investigate further the tonal quality of such brand.
 
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organloft

New member
I'm not technically qualified to comment on the system of sound generation, but the organ I played yesterday - a small 2-manual/pedal in a country church - certainly sounded superb. I was also impressed by the console layout which was absolutely standard with no gimmicks. C-H are certainly very highly regarded in England and have supplied many hire organs to cathedrals during rebuilds of their pipe organ. I can comment further if I end up buying a second-hand organ from them, which is similar to the one I played yesterday.

N
 

FelixLowe

New member
Johann Sebastian Bach traveled on foot over long distance in 1705, from Arnstadt in Thuringia to Lübeck, just to hear the magnificent organs in the north of Germany and just to hear the organ master, Dieterich Buxtehude (1637-1707) play. What exactly were the sound and those voices from the stops of those North German Baroque organs?

In 1999, a European project was completed in an attempt to construct a pipe organ to relive the authentic tonal paradigm and glory of the voices of organs of the North German Baroque School -- thus the Örgryte Nya kyrka in Göteborg was born. They believe those stops contain the sounds for which the young J S Bach would have travelled for miles to aspire to listen to Dietrich Buxtehude's performances.

During the Middle Ages, the major trade cities of northern Europe had an alliance, the Hanseatic League, which was the leading commercial power for several centuries. With Lübeck at the pinnacle, the Hanse cities developed an economic prosperity and a blooming culture that also generated an unusually rich period of musical performance and instrument building. Sea travel and trade created the favorable economic conditions. Due to clever political characters and because of their strategic geographical location, many of the cities survived the ravages and turmoil of the wars. Skilled artists, craftsmen, musicians, and instrument builders fled from the strife in the west and south to security inside the city walls. Power craved the proper authority. At the same time, the organ became a central symbol for the city's new prosperity and an inspiration for ongoing creativity with new expressions and rich decorations. Through its complex construction and nature, the organ attracted foreign craftsworkers and scientists at a level of quality that has rarely been surpassed since that time. In every case, the organs represented the zenith of architecture, music, mechanics, mathematics, art, handcraft, and techniques of their time. Therefore, everyone regardless of rank or class could enjoy sonorous artwork. They all listened to organ music, but only a few knew what went on behind the mighty façade. For musicians, the organ was the most prominent and visible instrument to be found. Organists demonstrated their musical positions and power through "organ sermons" played on the full organ with bells and bird songs on feast days and at weddings. For reflective services, prayer days, and funerals, organists chose fewer stops with color sounds, even the Trommel (drum).

Much of the music from these 17th-century city organists is extant: from Hamburg, Lübeck, or Amsterdam... but what is the present state of the organs? The prosperity of the times made possible their conception and birth, but in a lasting strong economy, the symbols of wealth changed with time. The result is that none of these majestic north European Baroque city organs is preserved in its entirety. Fortunately, a few organs from that time exist with some of the material preserved, material that survived the World War II bomb raids, but which has been restored many times. Every succeeding restoration tends to erase more and more of the pipes' original construction and sound. But most of the preserved pipes, even those that have undergone many changes from organ builders or restorations, still sound better than modern copies. Why? We could only answer that question by making our vision a reality.

The vision was clear: to experience for the first time in modern times how the famous Baroque organists' music actually sounded in their time. The same type of musical experience inspired Johann Sebastian Bach in 1705 to travel on foot the long distance from Arnstadt in Thuringia to Lübeck, just to hear the magnificent organs in the north and just to hear the organ master, Dieterich Buxtehude (1637-1707) play. Thus, recreating that musical experience was also our vision. But how could we get the necessary experience and study 17th-century organ and instrumental music unless we would build, yes, reconstruct such an organ?

To find out more, visit this link: http://goart.gu.se/gioa/w-17.htm#spec to find out what was to become the model North German Baroque organ completed in 1999 and its stoplist: http://goart.gu.se/gioa/ngospec.htm.

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Clarion

New member
I'm not technically qualified to comment on the system of sound generation, but the organ I played yesterday - a small 2-manual/pedal in a country church - certainly sounded superb. I was also impressed by the console layout which was absolutely standard with no gimmicks. C-H are certainly very highly regarded in England and have supplied many hire organs to cathedrals during rebuilds of their pipe organ. I can comment further if I end up buying a second-hand organ from them, which is similar to the one I played yesterday.

C-H uses age-old synthesizer technology: additive synthesis, which is accomplished by adding a number of harmonics together to produce a composite tone. By changing the relative proportions of the harmonics, it is possible to derive a variety of tones by simply adjusting the numbers of harmonics used and amplitudes relative amplitudes.

Within the organ world, synthesis technology has undergone significant improvement over the years, and is capable of producing some rather agreeable sounding instruments like those of Veritas Organs i.e.:

http://www.veritasorgans.com/sounds_cd_1.htm

These synthesis organs are usually Bradford/Musicom technology. I believe that C-H organs use the same Musicom technology as utilized by Veritas. Of the two tech systems, Bradford is probably the oldest, going back perhaps a decade. British Wyvern Organ initially used Bradford technology for their high end custom organs, but better than a half decade ago, switched to the Phoenix sampled-tech system for their top-of-the-line instruments. From this, I would tend to suspect that migration from synth-tech to sampled Phoenix-tech was considered an upgrade.

I have never heard a synth-tech organ like a C-H, or Veritas first hand, so cannot appraise them from that perspective. Nevertheless, neither C-H or Veritas have managed to make significant inroads into the organ marketplace. Additionally, they tend to be VERY expensive!

If you are in England, where Phoenix is probably the #1 seller, it should not be difficult to find one to sample. As an old guy who is now on his sixth organ; since I haven't sampled all of the other options in the marketplace, I can't say for sure if Phoenix is the very absolute best digital organ out there. But what I can say, is that after a year-and-a-half with my Phoenix III/44; I am totally satisfied with the awesomely addictive sound of this instrument; and can't think of any changes that would improve the instrument just the way it is.

And when I mention the addictive sound of the Phoenix, i.e. the more you play it, the more you have to play it! It becomes and addiction! In contrast, while bad organs might initially sound impressive; but as you play them more and more, the become more and more irritating they become. :rolleyes: My previous organ, a Classic Organ Company offering emitted such disagreeable sounds, that for the last 8 years it was in our house, I never played it. :crazy: Since I never played it, my wife was in favour of calling it a day for organs in our home. :(

As Lastcorpsestanding previously mentioned, I drew [Classic Organ] Opus 310, which was their main show instrument, and the one they rented out when need be. St. George's had, in fact, used that same organ while waiting for C750 to be completed. After the recital, someone in attendance came up to me a remarked,"You looked like you were trying to get something out of it that wasn't there."

Wow! can I ever identify with that scenario!! :cry: With a badly designed organ which merely sounds bad . . . no matter what; the tendency is to push the pedal to the metal! Obnoxious amplified a thousand times, is still obnoxious! :rolleyes:
 
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