In Vierne's Sixth Symphony (published in 1930), the Adagio ends with an E flat/B flat double pedal, noting that the composer indicated the addition of a 32' stop a few bars earlier.
Could this be the first instance of an organ work that explictly asks for a 64' resultant? Or does anybody have an example prior to 1930?
Last edited by acc; Nov-07-2009 at 21:49.
I don't think that's how you get 64'. It's just two notes in the same scale. Nothing new to that. There is a way to get a (somewhat phony) 'resultant' tone by combining a note with another slightly higher (I'm not quite sure of the exact interval, but some will know).
In any case, since even a low 32' pedal note is barely audible, 64' is as much imagination as reality.
The interval you're talking about is a perfect fifth, which is precisely that of my example (between E flat and B flat).Originally Posted by dll927
I agree that you wouldn't hear the 64' — but I recently stood next to an organist who played that Vierne piece, and the moment his right foot hit the B flat (with the left foot keeping the E flat), I definitely felt the effect, which is anything but phony.
This is not necessarily true. Just about every 32ft. stop I have encountered in this country (be it full length, a stopped 16ft., or a half-length reed) has been clearly audible. In the case of a reed, this is usually the dominant sound of a chord held on the full organ.
The 64ft. Resultant Bass at Liverpool Anglican Cathedral, UK, is quite definitely audible.
As acc states, to obtain a resultant 32ft. tone, play the fundamental note, plus a perfect fifth higher (on a 16ft. register). One can also experiment with other notes, depending on the voicing (and harmonics) of the stop being used. In addition, on my own church organ, if I were to play a chord on the G.O., with full Swell, G.O. to Mixture IV (19-22-26-29), and Pedal to Trombone (wooden resonators), and then play a tonic ninth on the Positive Gedeckt (8ft.), a surprisingly realistic 32ft. effect is produced in several keys, since the tonic ninth contains several important harmonics in the 32ft. series.
Last edited by pcnd5584; Nov-13-2009 at 20:10.
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.
I probably should have left out that last sentence. I certainly agree that 32' is audible, even on CDs (assuming you have decent speakers). And most certainly a 32' pedal Bombarde would make its presence known. What I sometimes notice on TV is that 32s can sound a bit off-key, again maybe because of speaker quality.
If one pores over the stop list of the Crystal Cathedral organ, which has several 32s, there is one stop that is a 32 resultant, even though it is actually a several-rank mixture. First Congregational L.A. now has a 64 up in the chancel section of the organ. I haven't been there since that one was added, but I've been there quite a few times, and I know there's no room for something 64 feet high unless they tried to add another spike to the steeple. So obviously they did it by 'resultant' means.
Last edited by dll927; Nov-14-2009 at 00:52.
The 32ft resultant tone is eminently possible on a tracker organ. As acc says, it is the perfect fifth. The trick is to play the fifth with sufficient force to engage the pedal action, but not the Gt to ped or Sw to ped coupler action... If you can manage this, much rattling of the windows results.
In the work I mentioned, Vierne only asks for the soft 32'-16'-8' foundation stops in the Pedal, coupled to the (closed) Swell gambe and voix céleste.
Acc, my instinct is that this would work quite well. Resultant tone works best with the softer tones IMHO. Take for example, the ending Roth's superbe Vierne 2 on youtube. 16ft reeds growling away a fifth appart don't work that well... added to this, the action of the organ (I suspect) wouldn't alow the cheat I noted above.
I guess the question is, what was the intended instrument for that work. The suggested regestration would obviously have different conciquences depending on this and the building.
Nice to see someone else articulating that particular trick. I discovered it quite by accident on the first organ on which I practiced. It was a rather ordinary, uninspiring (J.E. Dodd) two manual but one day when I was experimenting with the pedals, discovered that I could do exactly the above - engage the pedal ranks without the manual coupler pulling down. It made for some very effective quinting since the 16' Bourdon was well voiced. Upon using it at the end of a couple of hymns, an organ afficiandao in the congregation came up to me afterwards and said "I could have sworn I heard a 32' during your playing but there's no way this could have one ..... is there?? What did you do?"
I grinned and said "that would be telling!"
A few years back, I was pager turner/registrant for an organist who perfomed Alain's Deuils. He was performing on a 3-manual Casavant which unfortunately has no 32' on the pedal. For the 32' "hits" early on in the quiet passages, he got me to play the resultant on a spare 16' on one of the unused manuals before the frenetic bit kicks in. The audience members who knew (ie, that there is no 32' on this instrument) were thoroughly appreciative of the effect.
It certainly has its uses but a judiciously sparing use is the one I recommend to students.
Music is made to transform the states of the soul, for an hour or an instant (J. Alain)
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