GrandOrgue 0.2 Beta released for testing...

[Mathbob]

Graham,

I now have 0.2 running on a 3GHz/2Gb machine, actually connected to the Rodgers, not just the keyboard. A couple of technical questions.

I know I saw a "help" somewhere that explains the "audio settings" settings, but I can't recall where, and the help on GO 0.2 is blank.

1) Having trouble getting the swell pedal (volume) to work. The midi processor in the organ now generates Control Change instructions to controller 7. It generates messages for channels 1-4 (0-3 hex) to keep it compatible with the Yamaha synth. [I have defined only one enclosure in GO, as my console has only one swell shoe.] For example, using channel 1, it would generate B0 07 nn, where nn is the volume level. Trying to relate this to GO's "MIDI Messages" settings, I think "Enclosure 1" should be set to Channel = 1, but what does it want for "data/offset"? Is that where the "7" goes?

2) Also having trouble with the general combinations/reversibles. The "GO Organ Definition File Format Reference" specifies "MIDIProgramChangeNumber" - but what MIDI command is this? Is it patch change, Cx? I'm now generating patch changes on channel 5, the same channel used for stops (which are working). To send a change for combination 03, it would transmit C4 03. The "audio settings" screen also has a "data/offset" for these lines, but the patch change command is only two bytes - what is it used for? Also, what is the function of "previous program" vs "next program"?

Thanks!
Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bill,
We're looking at the possibility of hosting the 'help' portion online, as the linux build of GrandOrgue doesn't like the older version of 'windows help' standard files...

So on to your questions :-)

1. The quickest way to setup a Swell pedal is to right click on the pedal image in GrandOrgue and select 'Listen for event' from the popup options. Then move your swell pedal. GrandOrgue should find the MIDI messages and configure the setting automatically. Please let me know if this works for you...

2. For Stops/Combinations/Reversibles you need to set up the type of MIDI messages from within the MIDI Messages Tab in the Audio -> Settings option. The 'Stop Changes' setting will define how the MIDI messages are recieved. This defaults to '9x Note On' messages, but can be changed to 'Cx Program Change', or 'Bx Control Change' messages. The "MIDIProgramChangeNumber" is then either the Midi Note On value, or the Program CHange value or the Control Change value. One can usually also use the 'Listen for Event' method to configure your Stops.

Hope that helps!
GrahamG

[Mathbob]

Graham,

Yes, that was the ticket! Everything works now except the gt-to-pd reversible. When setting up the general combinations, SO's "listen" feature immediately picked up the patch number; expression pedal picked up immediately as well. I've checked the MIDI output from the organ using MidiOx, and the gt-to-pd is generating a program change 46, but when trying to "listen" for it, even after repeated tries, SO does not capture it. [The gt-to-pd does work when clicking the piston icon on the screen.]

BTW, I've noticed that SO is 1-based on the patch numbers, while the MIDI commands are zero based. So, my "46" should be captured as "47" by SO. This did happen with the general combinations.

Any ideas about why of the resersible is having trouble? Here's the .organ code:
[ReversiblePiston001]
Name=GT-PD
Comments=
ShortcutKey=
ObjectType=COUPLER
ManualNumber=0
ObjectNumber=1
DispLabelColour=DARK blue
DispLabelFontSize=normal
Displayed=Y
DispImageNum=1
DispButtonRow=1
DispButtonCol=1
MIDIProgramChangeNumber=46
DispKeyLabelOnLeft=N

It's interesting to hear how the full organ sounds! It primary came from the Brut-Leuchten samples, so those are fairly well balanced, but overall all that remains is balance out the rest of the organ, and substitute a couple of ranks that I'm not overly pleased with.

Thanks!
Bob

[Mathbob]

Graham,

Well, I still don't know why it won't detect the gt-to-pd reversible, but just typing 47 into the popup box worked!

Suggestion for future release: It would be nice if the right-click popup box for each stop drawknob would let you set the amplitude level for that stop.

Thanks for all of your help!
Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bob,
Glad you got it sorted and working :-) I have also thought that it would be a good idea to see if we can add the amplitude level for the rank to the right click pop-up, so you have just confirmed it as a good idea. It will go on the list of things to decipher in the source-code to see if it can be done with our limited knowledge and understanding..

GrahamG

[Mathbob]

I found it very helpful to study other people's .organ files when setting up my own. I'm willing to share mine if anyone would find it helpful. Just send me an email address.

Bob

[Mathbob]

I've tried varying the latency over a fairly wide range, but it doesn't seem to have an effect. Any suggestions about how to set it? I'm using a Dell 3GHz/2MB with an M-Audio Audiphile 2496 sound card.

Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bob,
I'm assumng you're using the Windows version? If so, are you using the DirectSound or ASIO audio drivers? You will not notice much difference in latency with the DirectSound, but you should be noticing differences with ASIO.
GrahamG

[Mathbob]

Yes, it's Windows and ASIO sound. I've noticed that the latency seems to somehow set itself at 12 ms; if I alter it, click OK, then open the audio settings again, it has ignored my change and gone back to 12 ms. How do I get it to retain the change?

Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bob,
Does your ASIO driver have a configuration panel? If so then you can change the settings there and that should change the estimated latency in the GrandOrgue Audio panel.
GrahamG

[Mathbob]

Graham,

Thanks! Yes, it does. There are several settings available from 64 to 2048 samples (GO doesn't like it set above 1024). I've tried it from 64 to 1024 and it sets estimated latency from 3ms to 46 ms. The sound card produces a pop-up when you set this field indicating that if it's set too low, you may get pops or clicks; if set too high, the program may become overwhelmed. I tried 64, 1024 and a couple in between - didn't get any pops/clicks or other problems at any setting - even playing fat chords with all stops drawn. So I just chose 512 as a middle ground (resulting in 23 ms). Seems to work OK.

One thing I have noticed is that when operating the swell pedal, I can barely hear slight clicks as controller messages are sent, but only with headphones on. Not a problem, but I'm going to try putting snap-on ferrites on each end of the midi line to see if that resolves it.

Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bob,
Glad you got that figured :-)

What Organs are you running?

GrahamG

[Mathbob]

Graham,

It's mostly from the Brut-Leuchten Organ (itself a hybrid), but also stops pulled from Zion, Jeux, Prudhoe and Enigma. I also have the Ott and "Birthday" sets but don't use them, as they are very limited. "Chimes" from Leo Christoferson [they are nice, but I'd still like to have real chimes some day.] 31 stops total, plus three trems (1 on the swell, 2 on the choir), 4 generals plus cancel, three couplers, and gt-to-pd rev. I tried to stick with the Rodger's original registration, but made a few deviations: the 16' Pd Diapason is really a 16' Posuane; the "Chorus Effect" tab is now a Nazard on the great; the Clarinet on the Choir is a Fagotto - decent by itslef, but I'd still like to find a free/cheap clarinet or maybe vox humana; and the "Chiff" effect on the choir is now a Celeste - which is VERY nice when used with the Gedeckt 8' and/or Dulciana 8'. These are all dry-ish, but not completely dead, sets which sound good in my condo. I tried a couple of the wet Enigma sets, but they sounded like they were in a cave. I've done a lot of swapping in and out, and have finally - pretty much - settled on this group. I'm still tinkering with levels on the stops, but they are close. I'd like to spend less time playing with the organ and more time playing it. The analog part of the organ still plays completely and in the midst of this project I've had to track down and replace a couple of leaky keyer diodes. For a 40+-year-old organ it still performs remarkably well. I've read posts from people who say that once the VPO is running, you'll never use the analog again. But for short sessions, it's still nice, and there's no start-up time. When starting this project, I considered gutting the Rodgers and going all-digital, would have been technically easier. Glad I didn't. It's like having two organs. I could arrange it to play both organs at once with some audio work, but I don't plan to do that. I've also managed to keep things compatible with the Yamaha keyboard, so the Rodgers can drive the synth in it (but not the VPO at the same time). I've rambled.

Bob

[ggoode.sa]

Hi Bob,
I'm looking at converting a theatre organ sample set (based on Wurlitzer recordings by John Tay) to GrandOrgue and it has a Clarinet rank and a Vox Humana... would you be interested in experimenting with it? This would only be sometime next year... Your analogue/digital sounds like it is coming together nicely, so I wish you well in your playing :-)
GrahamG

[Mathbob]

Certainly! Please let me know when it's available.

Also, a curiosity: When holding a note which has a percussive stop drawn, and drawing another stop, the percussive stop re-sounds.

Bob