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Thread: Europe Organs vs. USA organs

  1. #16
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Good point there Giwro; this side of the pond I suspect the majority of church buildings are of stone or maybe brick, houses usually brick with some stone, would I be right in thinking that wood is used much more in USA? I would think wood and most modern building materials are more absorbent of sound.

    As for the idea that all American organs are massive, surely it is more likely that only the large instruments get the publicity, there must be a majority of smaller instruments in parish churches as is the case in UK and Europe.

    Many of our smaller organs can trace their history back for hundreds of years which means that many of these historic instruments are well known at least among the performing organists.

    America has for the most part grown very rapidly over the last 150 - 200 years so there will have been a large demand for organs which probably means there are a lot of very similar organs compared to Europe where growth has been over a much longer period.

    I would suggest these factors may tend to give the impressions that have been expressed here so far.

    [tongue in cheek] so get started rebuilding your chrurches in good reverberant stone, then start rescuing some of the instruments David (Organ Matters) will find for you! [/tongue in cheek]
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  2. #17
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    Mike you are right . There are alot of smaller installations in churches and schools in the USA..which are voiced quite nicely in various period styles.Most universities have a concert instrument and maybe a few smaller pipe organs for practice as well as electronic units. Oh yes the big ones are here too.. with only a few Massive cathedrals housing them here unlike Europe. We have examples of most makers of organs scattered around the country.Most people just here about the Wannamaker, Crystal Cathedral, Saint John Devine,Wahington National Cathedral, installations.And as has been noted we are not as old a country as most of Europe either to develope in organ installations unless they came from Europe to begin with. A few thoughts!
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  3. #18
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    I agree Bill ! and Hi there !
    There is an organ in the States that is real GOOD and with good acoustics. the Flentrop inside Duke Univercity. I have a cd from Naxos label with Wolfgang Rubsam playin' Grand Masters Kunst der Fugue and Passacaglia and the sound I get from my hi-fi systen (since I never been there) is exelent ! Have you seen/listen/play this one ?
    greetings
    Panos

  4. #19
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    only heard it on Broadcast: but not in person. Yes great sound.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  5. #20
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Marc's Avatar
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    Sure, there are some BIG MAC organs in the States. And Europe has got the (restored) historic instruments, but are the differences between organs and organ builders of the two continents really that great?
    I mean, the Flentrop mentioned is a 'Dutch' organ (Flentrop is located in Zaandam, NL), based mainly on 17th/18th century North German/Dutch building principles.
    And what about the neo-classical American organ builders? Paul Fritts, Taylor and Boody, Martin Pasi, John Brombaugh et al? They make and restore organs worldwide in more or less the same fashion.
    Must admit I dunno that much about this subject, but to me it makes not really a great difference listening to a Metzler in Europe or a Fritz in the States, as long as the acoustics and recording is to my likings.

  6. #21
    Commander, Assistant Conductor mathetes1963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghekorg7 View Post
    I agree Bill ! and Hi there !
    There is an organ in the States that is real GOOD and with good acoustics. the Flentrop inside Duke Univercity. I have a cd from Naxos label with Wolfgang Rubsam playin' Grand Masters Kunst der Fugue and Passacaglia and the sound I get from my hi-fi systen (since I never been there) is exelent ! Have you seen/listen/play this one ?
    greetings
    Panos
    Panos, have you heard the 1932 Aeolian at Duke University? It's pretty spectacular in its own right. You can hear both instruments on these CD's:
    http://www.ohscatalog.org/rommusatduk.html
    http://www.amazon.com/Organs-Duke-Ch...1257271&sr=1-1
    “The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.”
    -Johann Sebastian Bach, 1685-1750

    "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing."
    -Duke Ellington, 1899-1974

  7. #22
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    Hi Math !
    Thanks for the link, is great.

    How can I forgot ? Aeolian... one of the best. Excuses....

    But I wonder, is the chappel of Duke univercity that gives these organs their great sound, or the bilders knew where they goin' to install their masterpieces ?

    cheers
    Panos

  8. #23
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Br. Panos,

    I just happen to know those instruments at Chapel Hill quite well and, for what it is worth, the builders knew exactly what they were doing when they built those instruments based on the budget constraints of the contract.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  9. #24
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    My br.CD... always on the right time at the right place, with ..... the right answer !

    Have you play them as well ? it would be nice to hear from soneone who did and share the details with us !

    Cheers
    Panos

  10. #25
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Blessed Br. Panos,

    Yes, I have played them. Personally I like the Aeolian better than the Flentrop because I am a Romantic with Classical Restraint, but the right repertoire on the Flentrop and she blooms beautifully. Thanx for your kind remark. Coming from a man whose musical skills I very much respect, your keen perception and experience gets you right to the heart of the matter.

    Humbly,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  11. #26
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    Thanks br.CD . Great information you gave us here. And as I suspected : Flentrop is better for classical repertoire.

    I can see now, knowin' you better, that there is a gentle and romantic heart along with the romantic music..

    I'm not an expert on anything, I just wanna play and play and play and I want to learn and update as long as I live. I;ll never stop.
    Please don't be humble with me, just friend and co-passenger in this journey...

    your friend
    Panos

  12. #27
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
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    Quote Originally Posted by lombardo View Post

    Portugal hasn't a very developed culture of organ meybe because iberian organs are very limited.
    Hello lombardo. Welcome to the site.

    There is a 2-CD set by Dabringhaus & Grimm (Germany) on Historical Organs of Portugal. For the longest time, I've been wanting that set.

    I have many recordings of Spanish organs, and, of course, I'm intrigued by the organs in your country, which seem to be very similar. I've also noticed that the wood carving, on some of the cases, is superior.

    I'd like to see more interest in Portugese organs and organ music.

  13. #28
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingvox View Post
    I'd like to see more interest in Portugese organs and organ music.
    Two other gems:

    http://www.amazon.com/Early-Iberian-.../dp/B0000013WQ

    http://www.amazon.com/Baroque-Organ-...2&sr=1-2-fkmr0

  14. #29
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
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    I have both of these.

  15. #30
    Civilian
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    American Pipe Organs:

    Quote Originally Posted by lombardo View Post
    Hi all!

    First of all i'm going to tell that I am portuguese. Portugal hasn't a very developed culture of organ meybe because iberian organs are very limited.

    I hear records of french organs and german organ and the sound is wonderful.

    when I searched for American organs I found several organs. Really big organs! There was organs with 5,6 and even 7 manual.

    I took a look on youtube to find some records. So, I searched the 2nd biggest organ in the world, the Wanamaker Organ, Philadelphia. I thought: "Woh! That must be wonderful!"

    In my opinion, that organ sound is too artificial. Then I searched other organs in USA and they have all the same artificial sound.

    I know that the sound comes from the pipes.

    But my questions are: Is that sound from the records? Do they make the pipes to sound more artificially? Do you like the sound that way?

    Lombardo
    The USA has many 1000's of great pipe organs in church's, cathedrals & Concert Halls. The Wanamaker is one of the worst examples. It's in a Department Store. For more information go to the Organ Historical Society's Web site. One Recording I have and reccomend is "From Ashes To Glory" a 2 CD & 1DVD set "Pro Organo CD7250" from The Cathedral of Saint John The Devine in New York City, the organists are Gerre Hancock, Marilyn Keiser , Thierry Escaich, Olivier Latry (from Notre Dame, Paris) Peter Conte & Daniel Roth. Michael

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