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Thread: PC struggles to perform - whats my weak link?

  1. #1
    Midshipman, Forte spotty's Avatar
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    PC struggles to perform - whats my weak link?

    I can run MyOrgan pretty much trouble free with every sample set I've tried anyway. Haptwerk seems to be fine with the free edition anyway too.

    But, I tried a few different versions of the Virtual organ company's products, and can only really get the ultra stripped down free version working. Even then, at more than 8 notes held down it starts to crack up on me. The trial version of Positeif III is unusable. As soon as I adjust the 'samples' low enough to get rid of unpractical latency, I'm reduced to 1 or 2 note polyphony before I crack up.

    I've designed my own organs using a soft synth called Z3TA, but I'm right at its limits of performance. I can get away with 2 occilaters per voice at most (if I'm running at 2x oversampling).

    Using my task manager on windows, Virtual organ company's products quickly get my CPU pegging up into the 80% mark.

    Basically it seems my bottleneck is any CPU intensive stuff. The sampled organs like MyOrgan and Hauptwerk fare better.

    My system specs:
    Compaq presario SR1401NX
    330 Intel Celeron D 2.66 ghz with 256mb pc2700 memory
    1 gig ram (upgraded from original 256 mb)

    Although the processor is a single core, its still a pretty fast one (I thought).

    I'm also using an EMU 0404 external audio interface (ASIO)

    What am I doing wrong.
    I hear of people using VST hosts and running 3 or 4 instances of virtual synths like Z3ta or Virtual organ companys organs all at once)

    I can barely get 1 instance to run.

    Any ideas? Do I need to start spending more money on an upgrade? Or are there some tweaks I should be doing?
    Last edited by spotty; Dec-17-2010 at 15:44.

  2. #2
    Duckmeister teddy's Avatar
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    Hello spotty. What operating system are you using. It does sound to me as if your system is very underpowered.

    teddy

  3. #3
    Midshipman, Forte spotty's Avatar
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    Windows XP

  4. #4
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    I suspect the Celeron is the weak point, and another gig of RAM would also help

    see this Wiki entry re Celeron processors;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron

    Cheers MIKE
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  5. #5
    Duckmeister teddy's Avatar
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    I agree with Mike. 1 gig of ram is minimum spec for XP with SP3. Most likely you need to upgrade the processor.

    teddy

  6. #6
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    I ran XP with 512M for a couple of years, I only upgraded to 2G when I started to run GO with a larger sample set. The processor is dual core.

    To upgrade I bought 2G of RAM for the PC I use for music, removing the 512M that had been in it and put the 512M into the PC I use for photos and internet making that 1G .

    I may need to upgrade the music machine more if I need to load a larger sample set.

    (remembering my first PC with 640K of RAM, 2 floppies and no hard drive, later upgraded with a 32M drive on a card, sheesh, over 26 years ago!)
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  7. #7
    Ensign, Principal
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    @spotty: If the cpu load is going up to 80% with the VOC synthesized programs, I'd say you're right that the cpu is the bottleneck. Adding more ram isn't going to help with VOC programs because task manager shows that even Positief-III uses only 21MB (I downloaded and tried the three free/demo sets). More ram would help with programs like Hauptwerk or GrandOrgue so that you could load larger sample sets but even then, they are still going to run up against the lack of cpu horsepower if you have a sample set with a long reverb.
    My previous system was a single cpu @ 3.2GHz with 4GB of ram and I frequently ran into problems because of the lack of cpu horsepower. I also had problems with the limitations that 32-bit Win XP imposes on program size (and thus, sample set size) because the largest program you can have is about 2.7GB. So, having more than about 3GB of ram is a waste of money.

    Pete

  8. #8
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    Hallo Spotty,

    Virtual Pipe organ sets need more cpu power, with a single core.... it's awaste of time
    Get at least a dual core processor, AMD is fine but this too has problems (I had one) comparing to Intel ones, Now there are quad core machines, so you can find a fast Intel dual core for lower price than before.
    Also at least 4GB ram must installed (=64bit system...) to run big sets ok.

    Anyway, you can go to
    http://pcorgan.com/
    and there the guy gives a very detailed info about how to select and run a computer for Hauptwerk 3, and of course the same aplies for the GrandOrgue.

    Have fun !
    panos

    PS. Why you still use MyOrgan since there is the GrandeOrgue v0.2 ? = far better performance !
    *It's like a fight with women, which always ends in .... bed.*
    F.Kafka, Aphorisms.

  9. #9
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetmike View Post
    I suspect the Celeron is the weak point, and another gig of RAM would also help

    see this Wiki entry re Celeron processors;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron

    Cheers MIKE
    I now have 4G Ram which solved 99.99999%of my problems, so yes, 1G not enough.
    I don’t want a signature any more

  10. #10
    Midshipman, Forte spotty's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I guess my CPU IS my weak link. I will be downloading Grand Orgue soon to try it out. And frankly, after much pondering and experiments, sampled organs, as opposed to synth ones (like virtual organ company is offering) just.....sound and play better.
    My PC seems to have no problem with the smaller organs I play, so maybe I have everything I need already. I guess I just have a 'bias' to commercial products, since tools like myorgan or grandorgue have no guarantee that they'll be around and working in 5 years.
    Frankly though, Ottel orgue is my favorite intimate little organ, even though it is very dry, that gives the impression that the instrument is right there in front of me in my house.... and Jeuxdorges is an awesome wet set.

    I guess too, that (excluding hauptwerk) raw .wav sets can always be imported to almost any software sample player, and even many hardware based ones.
    Last edited by spotty; Dec-20-2010 at 17:29.

  11. #11
    Captain of Water Music
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    For GrandOrgue your computer should work without too much trouble as long as the sampleset is not too big. My previous computer had similar spec as yours (but with 2 Gb RAM) and it could play the new Bureå Church extended set without problems.

    The latency dropped down dramatically when I upgraded to my new computer though. So, for me, a new computer really did make a difference worth the investment, even if I didn't pick the very high end kind.

    Don't be afraid of using open source software. As the source is freely available, it's likely that as long as there are people interested in the softwares existance it will be continously developed and supported. That's really an advantage over commercial software!

    Kind regards

  12. #12
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
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    Hi Spotty again,

    GrandOrgue 's gona be for long time serving us, I'm in a position to know.... (some birds singin'...you know). When v0.4 will come out we're gonna have a winner in our hands.
    Stick to GO like glue. As for Ott Orgel.... nice dry but I cannot stand it after one minute.

    So , my humble advice : There you gonna download GrandOrgue v.0.2 there's a tutorial about adding reverb to it, by Graham. PLEASE Read/download it and follow orders imediately !! You will remember me.
    Just Imagine : You're gonna hear your beautiful little Ott inside a medieval church or a French Baroque sallon, or even a rennaissance salle, or wherever you want !
    You're gonna have the time of your life....

    Have fun !
    Panos
    *It's like a fight with women, which always ends in .... bed.*
    F.Kafka, Aphorisms.

  13. #13
    Midshipman, Forte spotty's Avatar
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    Thanks. And I DO appreciate all the work you are doing on the project.

    There aren't a lot of hauptwerk version 1 sample sets around regretably. One neat option for grandorgue (if you aren't doing this already) would be the option to upload convert any generic set of .wav. samples into a standard definition file. That would ensure that grandorgue could become a great freeware sample player for ANY sampled instruments. Just a thought.

    As for the dryness of ottel organ, to me, playing it dry is actually the closest that it would sound if the actual organ was in my living room.
    But more importantly for me, I really like breathy chiffy pipes, and Ottel excells at that. I prefer the smaller breathy organs over the big monsters any day.

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