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Smallest and Biggest you've played?

Thomas Dressler

New member
Hi acc, and thanks for the information! Yes, I REALLY want to know! so I think I'll be checking this one out!

Do you have any other suggestions of good Cavaille-Coll recordings, especially of the instruments you especially like?

(And besides that, do you know of some good recordings of French Classical instruments? Cliquots?)
 

giovannimusica

Commodore de Cavaille-Coll
The recent Vierne recording by Maitre Roth is stunning. He does interpretive magic with the symphonies - adopts very musical tempi and performs with a seriousness of purpose. Insofar as idiomatic sound is concerned, there is a gem of a CC at St. Etienne in Caen - 3 manuals/pedal with 50 stops.

A link for those interested:

http://abbaye-aux-hommes.cef.fr/index2.htm Click on culture, scroll down left side of page to *musique*, click on *grand-orgue Cavaille Coll* and then *page suivante*.


Cheers,

Giovanni
 

acc

Member
Thomas Dressler said:
Do you have any other suggestions of good Cavaille-Coll recordings, especially of the instruments you especially like?

(And besides that, do you know of some good recordings of French Classical instruments? Cliquots?)
I'm currently ca. 70 miles away from my CD collection, but from the top of my head, I'd say Ben van Oosten playing Widor #5 & #6 at St-Ouen (MDG L 316 0403-2) and Frédéric Blanc's 1989 improvisations at St-Sernin (Motette 11451). (Blanc also recorded a second impro CD for Motette in 1992, but the sound is not that great on that one.)

As for French classical CDs, the sound of Jean-Baptiste Robin playing Marchand at Poitiers Cathedral (Triton TRI 331118) is particularly good, but I must confess I never heard this Cliquot organ in situ.
 

Aristide

New member
Kind of a coincidence to surf in on this forum.
Smallest : I guess that was a newly built 3-stop I/P study organ at the Delmotte organbuilders workshop (Tournai, Belgium).
Biggest : not quite sure ; could have been the V/P at the Speyer Dom (Germany), Gedächtniskirche Speyer (V/P), St. Baafs Cathedral Gent (Belgium), all V/P but can't remember number of stops.

I see that the III/P Schyven organ at Notre-Dame de Laeken (Brussels, BE) was mentioned in several posts. I have played 5 recitals there on this organ over the last 5 years (in the recital series mostly), together with a second organist on the II/P Van Bever in front of the large church. The audience was in-between the two organs. Great experience every time. Possibly a repeat in 2007 depending on organisation there.

On the size of organs, I'd say this parameter is by far inferior to the quality of the instrument. Sometimes "the larger, the worst". Difficult to keep a large organ in good shape, and expensive too.

My usual organ is a 46/III/P Schyven organ (1886). As the church is 80m deep there and quite high, the size is very well measured. For most work, 46 (good) stops are an ideal orchestra.

Personally, I'd say anything above 100 stops is not much to my liking but let that be just a personal statement.

Jan - organist-recitalist
 

acc

Member
Hi Jan,

I guess everybody, here and elsewhere, will agree to favour a beautiful small organ over an ugly big one. (But big can be beautiful - for what I've heard on CD, I like Wanamaker's in Philadelphia a lot.)

However, 46 stops can sometimes still be a bit small. I'm thinking of German romantic organs here - in particular, they need many stops (in particular many 8' foundations - the "standard four" per manual not being enough) to make nuances between ppp and mf work well, especially in works by Reger or Karg-Elert. Good examples are here and here. The way the sound "builds up" is conceptually very different from French/Belgian romantic instruments (although Schyven has a somewhat mixed heritage - even his Antwerp organ may have French stop names, but really is somewhat half way between French and German. A few weeks ago, Michael Schönheit has given us a superb demonstration of this).

(P.S. I've looked at this year's Laeken programme: when did you play?)
 

tribuletto

New member
Good topic theme!
The smallest one which I played is in Halle Marktkirche, Germany, built by Georg Reichel in 1664. Very famous organ, because on it practised the young Handel under his tutor, Zachow, the later was the organist of the church. Unfortunately I don't remember the stoplist well. It has only 6 registers, no pedal.
The dispositions is something like this:
Bordun 8'
Floete 4'
Spitzfloete 2'
Sesquialtera
.......
.......
The old instrument is in original condition, with meantone temperament.
It's small but has a real penetrating sound. Very remarkable instrument for me.

Unfortunately I didn't find a good website of this organ... :-(

Cheers,
T
 

Aristide

New member
Hi !
I agree with your point that 46 stops can sometimes be a bit small. Of course, one needs to make do with what one has. In this country (Belgium) organs with +/- 50 stops belong to the 'upper class', so to speak. We only have a very limited amount of instruments going beyond that (exceptions like Antwerp Cathedral are really exceptions). I have however experienced how nice it can be to have a substantial amount of extra stops on some foreign instruments. But that, also, is an exception to play. So over here we have come to define +/- 50 stops as 'big'. But it deals with most of the repertoire. In that way, I'm very much into French/Belgian sound idioms so these instruments would deal well with most of that.

I don't play in Laeken this year. Have played there in all programmes from 2001 to 2005. I was amazed (in a nice way) to be asked every time again (together with co-organist Paul De Maeyer who was then playing the choir organ). We may be in the programme again in 2007, but that of course depends on the organising committee.
Our programme was an improvisation recital for 2 organs (interactive and simultaneously). Perhaps it was the exceptional nature of this that brought us back to Laeken more than the usual number of invitations for the same organist(s).
Jan.
 

acc

Member
In this country (Belgium) organs with +/- 50 stops belong to the 'upper class', so to speak. We only have a very limited amount of instruments going beyond that (exceptions like Antwerp Cathedral are really exceptions).


Let's see - from the top of my head, I can think of Antwerp, Bruges, Brussels Cathedral, Brussels Flagey (out of service), Brussels St-Servais, Brugge, Ghent, Mechelen, Namur, and Tongeren. That's already 10, and I've probably missed a few more.

So I'm not sure that the ratio (# of 50+ stop organs)/(total # of organs) would be that much higher in, say, France than in Belgium.
 

Aristide

New member
In percentage that will be so, but in this case we need to consider absolute numbers. Then minus the inaccessible ones.
Then, importantly, need to consider some smaller organs which outperform some larger ones. But that's a long discussion. Sheer size is so often insignificant, because a number of stops are often insignificant. Adding to the size, but barely to the colour palette. Compare St Sulpice (Paris) to St Baafs (Ghent). More or less same number of stops. But look at the composition.
Haven't had the honour of playing St Sulpice yet, sorry to say. 'Perhaps later'.
 

davidbirchenough

New member
hello one of the smallest organs i have played is in a villiage in leicestershire england at norton juxta twycross. A 1832 j c bishop will a nice gold leaf pipe front 6 stop up to 15th with a 4 octave and a bit manual from g-f with an octave pedal board from g to g. A complete pain at first but fun after a while. at the moment I play an old makin at beeston notingham with 48 stops. Not played much bigger but it's enough!
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Smallest and Largest

The smallest pipe organ I have played was in Assisi, Italy - a one manual 3 rank organ with an electrified blower. The stops were labeled with paper clips attached to wooden dowels. The top and front opened completely allowing the maximum sound to be heard. The chapel was all stone and quite live acoustically, so this little organ really sounded quite well.

The largest pipe organ I played was the very famous Mormom Tabernacle Organ in Salt Lake City. A wonderful instrument in many ways - I had about 30 minutes at a seminar after John Longhurst played a private program.

The pipe instrument I play every week on at church is a 9 rk Moller (1979) operating on 3" wind. The Swell is enclosed, the Great exposed. The church has pews for 252 people, so this organ does a rather nice job in accompanying and solo performance. I had the reeds voiced so that they "bight" a little with the shades open - closed, the reed is very mellow.
 

musanim

New member
The smallest organ I ever played was at the shop/studio of instrument-maker Gary Blaise in San Francisco. It was pedal-powered, with a single 8 foot stop (stopped wooden pipes). I found it surprisingly distracting to pump it, even though I'd played reed organs and pumped player pianos before without trouble. Lovely sound, though. He makes a smaller instrument now (which he sells; the one I played was more for his own amusement), but I haven't visited him since he completed the first of those.

The biggest organ was undoubtedly one I played in Lincoln, England. When I visited my first-cousin-once-removed there in 1981, her husband took me around to the organs in the area. I don't remember much about the instruments, but I took pictures of the stops and pedalboard of the one that was the biggest:

http://www.musanim.com/misc/LincolnOrganStops.jpg
http://www.musanim.com/misc/LincolnOrganPedals.jpg

Maybe somebody here will recognize it. :)
 

Alexander smith

New member
I'm Alexander. The smallest organ i've played is a reed organ, [ I'll try to remember all the stops, they were principal, dipasion, vox-humania, treble and bass couplers. I am going to play the Tannenberg at Old Salem.
 

Danmakine

New member
Possibly taking the price.

Except for the user who told about using a book-sized organ, I might take the price.

In 2003, I was visiting on the Faroe Islands with a group of scouts - far before my love affair with Organs, but back then I had already played the psalms in church for five years. On an island called "Fugloy", the Bird Island - way out in the Atlantic and with an population of ca. 20 - something went awry with the timing and the boat didnt show up on time - and, we were told, might first show up the next day. Which meant we needed something to do. A kind person let us into the charming and absolutely beautifull, little, old church. Up beside the altar was the tiniest pipe organ I have ever seen, with only one stop. Curiously, I asked if I might play it - which was of course allowed.

Sitting there, flipping through the Faroese Hymn Book and playing a few familiar hymns while looking out on the beautifull Atlantic Sea - oh man. Everyone was gripped by the feeling of the moment, and when I intonated a morning psalm, everyone burst out in song. (We were a group of about 10 grownups and a few children)

The biggest organ I have played was the organ in the Church of Saint Mary, in Sønderborg, Denmark. Seeing as I have only played organ (earnestly and willingly) for three months, it was a great thing when I was allowed to sit down at the Three-manual instrument built by Marcussen. My best guess is that it had 50+ stops - I did not count them, but there were two 16" trumpet stops - both of which resembled huge farts (Sorry if I am offending anyone)


Lene, in Denmark
 

Alexander smith

New member
Hi it's me again. The largest organ I ever played was at Saint Lukes Methodist church, this organ had three manuels and a whole barrage of stops for me to choose from so it was wonderfull!!!
 
Westminster Cathedral

Hi everybody!!!!

The smallest organ I have played is a small positiv organ with 3 stops, and the biggest is the big organ of Westminster Cathedral, London. The Westminster Cathedral has a magnificinet organ!!! But no facade at all! :(. Its sound is unique. The Cathedral has a very good acoustic and provides at the organ a very nice feature!:):):)
 

Cornopean

New member
The smallest organ I have played, not including things such as a single stop tuning bench instrument, would be a two and a half stop instrument in a Derbyshire church, whose maker I forget. Manual compass was F to f3, four octaves, possibly one octave of coupled pedals. Stops were an Open Diapason 8' and a Salicional 8'. Both shared a stopped lower octave. There was also a 16' Bourdon acting on the lowest octave alone. So the longest open pipes would have been about 3 feet long, and the longest Bourdon pipes would have been about 6 feet long. Remarkably effective in a tiny stone church seating all of 25 or so (not very reverberant either). With only a couple of stops, you have to find other ways to add musical expression. It even has a slight celebrity link - the organist is, or was, mother of a well-known Blue Peter presenter of a few years back. For the uninitiated, Blue Peter is a very long-running children's TV programme, presented live several times a week in a magazine format.
 

falcon1

New member
The biggest organ I have played in is the organ in Hallgrimskirkja which is located in the capital of Iceland Reykjavik. That organ is a 72 stops tracker. See the specs. :) See picture here.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Hi falcon1 ...

Wow - that's one impressive facade, case and pipe display. When was this organ built and/or installed? Hopefully this is in a good acoustic environment.

KH
 
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