David Tannenberg

[Thomas Dressler]

Hi Giovanni,

Oh yes, those Hook and Hastings in Boston are just incredible instruments! I heard the one at Immaculate Conception live a couple times and it was just unbelievably wonderful!

Tannenberg was an impeccable workman, and he generally used the absolute best materials available to him at the time. The more you get to know his work, the more amazed you become at his workmanship. Not only did he use good materials, but he was very skilled with the tools he used. To give an example, the alloy he used for his metal pipes has a melting point that is very close to the solder he used to put them together. Therefore, there was little room for error in the temperature of his soldering iron. And remember, he didn't have a computer controlled soldering iron! He had to heat it in a fire and get it to the proper temperature. . .

The reeds on the Hook and Hastings I play seem to be quite good. There are two--a Trumpet on the Great and an Oboe on the Swell. The Trumpet was restored about 25 years ago, and it sound pretty amazing, though sometimes choked with dirt. The Oboe is greatly in need of a restoration, so it is difficult to asses its tone. The pitch of the organ is somewhat more sharp than originally and I believe the Oboe was messed with so it is really difficult to know how it should sound without having an expert work on it. This is something we are planning to have done--we're working towards a complete restoration of the instrument.

I have never heard an intact Jardine, but they intrigue me. I worked in a church that originally had one, but it had been completely rebuilt by Austin around 1911 into a very different instrument. I have read about them and I am curious about them, but have yet to hear one or play one.

What kind of organ do you have for your weddings?

BTW, on Christmas I decided to play an abridged version of the Buxtehude Prelude, Fugue and Chaconne in C. It turned out to be the Fugue and Chaconne without the interlude.

It was very well received and fit the occasion very well I thought.

And blessings and peace to you, too!

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

Hi Tom,

I'm sorry to report that it is only an *appliance* - Walker Technical Company built it - 3 manuals and Pedal - 80 stops - adjustable reverb from 0.5 seconds to 7 seconds.

Thankfully, it doesn't sound *overprocessed* like Allens and Rodgers. Thanx for sharing about your Hook & Hastings and Tannenbergs skill as a craftsman - sounds like he adhered to a Lutheran style of "pflichtbewusstsein" - sense of duty or dutiousness.

Auf Wiederhoeren,

Giovanni

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Oh boy, well I guess it isn't much of a secret that not only do I like pipe organs, but if possible, tracker organs. But that being said, I play on a Rodgers. . .The Hook and Hastings makes up for it.

Yes, Tannenberg's dutiousness has paid off many times. For instance, the clavichord which was recently discovered to be his work still has strong joints, and the corners are mitred, which one would think would not hold up all these years, but they have. When the Winston-Salem Tannenberg organ was taken down in 1911 (and it was already 100 years old) they had to hammer it apart.

A bientot!

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

Hi Tom,

That's an interesting fact about Tannenberg's instrument - that it had to be hammered apart. It seems like too many instruments fall apart like a house of cards when restorative work commences - not just pipe organs but just about every other class of musical instruments. Hey, have you ever played one of the Lively-Fulcher opus? Just curious...

Amicalement,

Giovanni

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Hi Giovanni,

No, I never have played one. What are they like?

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

Hi Tom,

I haven't played one either. Based upon what I have read, their instruments have an *english* character when installed in a *smaller* worship space but take on a decidedly *Cavaille-Coll* character in a large acoustic. According to the head-voicer/finisher of the firm who was, if memory serves me, interviewed by Marcia van Oyen and was published in the journal entitled "Choir & Organ", of the opinion that french-style reeds are more suited for sumptuous acoustics - Hmmmmmmm.

What does that mean for the *French-Fisk* at Oberlin College? That's a relatively small space - in my mind now i'm thinking trompettes that sound like cats being strangled

Oh well, and to think an American Firm (Fisk) got to build a monumental instrument in the Lausanne Cathedral ( how shocking - Yankees - building organs - they are but a bunch of crude rubes with their heads up their ass - that's what one hears from the Europeans these days).

I guess all the Anti-US rhetoric is but smoke and mirrors - in a way, it's good that the Europeans have somebody to kick around, otherwise the Mental Asylums of Europe would be filled to the brim and then some with clients in need of transorbital lobotomies

I write this as a former member of EUtopia - Now, the Russians are in a class by themselves - I feel much closer to the Russians.... OOOOOOOPPPSSS - this now belongs to another forum and thread and another time - I apologise to all MIMFers

Auf Wiederhoeren,

Giovanni

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Now Giovanni, perhaps you've been to Europe and experienced some anti-American sentiment. I'm sure that's hurtful, but here is not the place to express your frustration about that. I don't want to get into a discussion of why's and all that here, but I want to point out that I have not seen what you're describing on the strictly musical forums here. I think Frederik's vision is of a place where people come together and leave those issues behind or work them out in another place. Remember I'm an American and was given the position of moderator for this forum--that's not exactly anti-American or disrespectful of American intellect!

What I'm saying is that perhaps those feelings exist in some places, but let's keep a discussion of those things somewhere else. This is a place where we can all come together and share, regardless of where we're from. It only hurts feelings to stereotype people. We don't like being called "American rubes" right? I'm sure the Europeans on this forum don't like being lumped together with the ones who think we ARE rubes. . .both things hurt others' feelings. Let's not do that.

Organs. . .I find what you said about the different characters of those instruments interesting. Do you mean the same instrument installed in different spaces? Or that they'd be voiced differently?

I would agree that the big French reeds were designed for big rooms, but I have heard and played wonderful Hook and Hastings organs with French-ish reeds that sound great in smaller rooms. But I doubt that they are as loud or as big as many real French reeds.

 

[giovannimusica]

Tom,

I probably was too sarcastic and facetious by my digression of a political nature and I apologise for that. Up until 1992 I was european and still am european at heart. Remember the phrase: You can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy. Let me tell you that I also share Frederik's vision of a place where like-minded individuals can gather around the subject we all love: MUSIC!!!

Now, back on topic: Yes, a similar instrument installed in a different space will have another *finish* voicing-wise. It would be foolish of me to presuppose what rationale Lively-Fulcher uses when voicing and tonally finishing an instrument - for all intents and purposes that could be a closely and jealously guarded secret - who knows!!!

Now, big reeds - what can characterise those? Tubas, Ophicleides, Trompettes Militaires, English Post Horns and the like - a novel sound but quickly tiresome to the ear. Alot of instruments get their bragging rights about being able to play FFF because they have a few of those *Party Horns* which I alluded to but which seem to damage the tonal cohesion of an instrument.

In my mind's ear, a good instrument has both flue and reed stops that are powerful but always work with the rest of the ensemble to give a blaze of color that will make one's head spin - where so much goes on tonally and keeps the mind busy with all the beautiful sounds - never a squawkish or shrieky sound intruding to disturb the gorgeous melange of color.

One of yours and my favorite instruments being St. Sulpice - what glories mankind has been given by Aristide Cavaille-Coll!!! Now, there is also a beautiful small instrument at St. Esprit in Paris - 20 stops - no mixtures but with a tutti that satisfies the ear. Maybe there is something to be said for brilliance by a reed chorus instead of mixtures - of course the reed needs to be controlled at the shallot opening so no overbearing blare comes through.

Your example of H&H with French-ish reeds gives me an inkling that they were onto something grand. The orgelbewegung movement has given us too much *mixture-blare* in tuttis when there should be balanced sound.

What say you, sir?

Giovanni

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Those French reeds can be unbelievably warm, bright, and wonderful. But I also like French Classical reeds, and even German and Spanish reeds for what they are meant to do. My least favorite ones are the very loud ones you describe, on many inches of wind pressure, etc. My own preferences and tastes tend towards historic reeds on lower wind pressure. . .I had a teacher in grad school who said the first time he heard a Clicquot (French Classical) Grands Jeux (Reeds and cornets together) it was so wonderful he wanted to curl up in a ball and roll around on the floor!

I will say that I think many of the "neo-Baroque" organs of the Orgelbewegung in the 1960s and 1970s especially were way too bright and didn't resemble REAL Baroque organs. But there are some builders now building Baroque style instruments which are quite beautiful in tone, silvery with mixtures, but not too bright.

Have you seen or heard recordings of any instruments by Rosales? Now those are organs I can get very excited about!

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

The Rosales at Rice University has alot going for it - great sound - NICE casework and a juicy acoustic. If my memory serves me it was Rosales and Glatter-Gotz who collaborated for the Disney Concert-Hall organ - Yikes, I hate to say it but I was NOT impressed. I have this gut feeling that after the success of the Fisk at the Meyerson Center, alot of new concert halls in the U.S. jumped on the bandwagon and ordered instruments with abandon.

Take for example the Fisk at Benaroya Hall in Seattle - somewhat similar specification but the organ sounds anemic in the hall - it doesn't get that *Gothic* bloom that characterizes the Meyerson Fisk. Ah yes, the acoustic consultant for the Meyerson really did his homework on how to get fabulous sound so that when the organist kicks in the Untersatz 32' and the Tuba Profunda 32' it really becomes a *seismic experience* - it got my teeth chattering!!!

Gosh, there are so many variables that need to be inputted when designing and building an instrument worth it's weight in gold. Of course, the dictum: "The most important stop on the organ is called *Room Acoustic* - methinks Ernest Skinner was onto something there.

I'm somewhat tired now after weddings and rehearsals the whole day on Friday so this battle-hardened veteran is heeding my wife's cooing to go to bed. Take care, Tom.

Goodnight America, wherever you are.

Giovanni

 

[giovannimusica]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Tom, do you like your organs tuned to Cheeseburger III (Kirnberger III).

How's about a fish restaurant called Hook and Haste(ings).

a restaurant that specializes in Potato Chowder called Potato (Skinners).

A pharmacist that specializes in digitalis prescriptions calles Roy (Rogers Digitals).

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

HAHA, very good!

I think I'll tune the harpsichord in Whopper II.

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Tom,

Whopper II ???

Is that something like 4-3/4 comma unequal meantone?

Amicalement,

Giovanni

ps. wonder what pdqbach said about *various ill-tempered* tunings...

pps. *Das faul und kranktemperierte Clavier*

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Whopper II is a double beef Whopper! LOL a somewhat more complex relation to Cheeseburger III.

Hmmmm, ill-tempered. . .I think that's what my harpsichord is in right now since I haven't tuned it for a week. . .it sure is kranktemperierte!

 

[giovannimusica]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Tom,

You make me scream! I doubt your clavier is ill-tempered, just non- tempered

Ok, since I have a basso-cantante voice i'll share this: How many basses does it take to change a lightbulb? None - since they like to act macho walking around in a darkened room and bang their shins.

In the interest of equal opportunity: What is the difference between a soprano and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist

My wife put me in the doghouse for that one

Then I started to howl, yowl and bay after dark - she got so scared that she took me back inside and scratched my back - since then: Jazz Harmony - 7ths, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths

Blessings And Peace Aplenty To Ya,

Giovanni

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Haha, I heard it as what's the difference between an ORGANIST and a terrorist!

Did you ever hear those old recordings by Anna Russell where she tells the funny stories about music and musicians? She tells about sopranos who sound wonderful because they have so much resonance. . .resonance where they should have brains.

And as far as the harpsichord goes, I tried to reset the temperament in a different one that I'm not used to setting, and it sure does sound like it's got a BAD TEMPER! It howls at me when I try to play!

(This is a true story though. . .I set my temperaments by ear, so I have to be in the right mood to set a temperament I'm not used to, and boy, it sounds pretty grungy right now!)

Or as we used to say in grad school, it's set in Budweiser III!

Best to you!

Tom

 

[giovannimusica]

Re: Humor Break - was David Tannenberg...

Oh Tom,

*Budweiser III* - you slay me

*Warning: this keyboard is *tempered* to reflect the various intemperaments of temperamental tempers*

I woke up today feeling nutty...

Salute!!!


Giovanni