Recent Russian Election

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hillary Clinton's latest opening of her trap in re to Russia further confirmed that she has no idea of what it is to not cast stones whilst sitting in a glass house. America still has both Federal and State imposed death penalty - Russia has none. The OSCE said "VOTER FRAUD and INTIMIDATION" - What a bunch of crock! Russian elections will always be noisy affairs - unlike the sheep flocks at US polling stations.

Maybe America would do well to pressure 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as to what "Managed Democracy" is. The US Ambassador was briefed by officials in Russia somewhat recently on just that issue. To impute Western-style elections on a Continent that has only known Tyranny by Communism/Socialism for 73 years is to invite catastrophe. There will be a period of transition - 3.5 to 7 generations will have to pass before things can be more "normalized".
 

GoneBaroque

New member
Well put CD. I do not believe that any country has the right to impose their form of government on any sovereign nation. As for the U.S. takling about voter fraud in other elections, we should clean our own house first. I heard yesterday a report that in the State of Indiana forged signatures have been discovered in the Nomination Papers for our current President in the 2008 Primary Election .
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi GB,

I will confess that it is horrifically difficult for me to critique the USA, where I was born but I cannot sit idly by and hear unfounded allegations. What is amazing is that Medvedev and Putin do not have such a "supermajority" in the Duma as they did 4 years ago, having lost 15% of the Duma seats. There is a transformation going on here in Russia, no doubt about it........And I am thankful for to be able to witness it. Maybe Russia will never have a system of voter representation like in the US. Its probably impossible for such a system to work here. Russia had Czars before the Revolution - Russian's have historically wanted and want strong leadership in the Kremlin.

In America, we don't enthrone a Monarch. In Russia there seems to be a grasping for an Enlightened Despot(There are Enlightened Despots, Benign Despots, and Autocratic Despots) - One who can crack the whip but also one who understands that his "subjects" are to be free - Not anarchically free but a freedom with self-restraint, who have access to education so that they can achieve dreams. Most of Russia is "off-line", only those who live in metropolises of 500,000 or more have regular internet habits. Most people are happy that they have just beer, sausages, bread, cabbage, apples, tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, vodka, radio, and TV. They work the land and live in more or less bucolic circumstance - Yes, there are plenty of gritty cities, towns, and villages. There are also many quaint cities, towns, and villages.

Even those who have not much to subsist on, those who live far from Moscow, will gather money and food and serve up a table full of food when guests come around from far and near. These are people who know the simple and pure pleasures in life, far removed from the noise and confusion of Moscow and St. Petersburg - Truly Fly-Over Country , if you will........
 

Chi_townPhilly

Sr. Regulator
Sr. Regulator
'Twas wondering if you'd have some perspective on this. Now, I probably have as much affection for Hillary Clinton as you do (i.e.: next to none), but in fairness...
Hillary Clinton's latest opening of her trap in re to Russia further confirmed that she has no idea of what it is to not cast stones whilst sitting in a glass house. America still has both Federal and State imposed death penalty - Russia has none.
sequiturs are not often this non. Still (voluntarily embracing the digression) prominent American politicos seldom make blanket declarations of opposition to the death penalty, as the death penalty is widely popular in the US. Typically, opponents of the death penalty advocate for extensive appeal rights and (occasionally) moratoria [e.g.: Illinois]. All the while, they work sub rosa to install judges whom they trust will eventually again rule the death penalty unconstitutional on the grounds of "cruel & unusual punishment."

Suppose a person doesn't have to know a lot about Russian history to know ol' uncle Joe's quote about it mattering little who casts the ballots, but rather who counts the ballots. Is it out of line to be curious about whether the casters or the talliers have proven decisive in this instance?
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Chi_townPhilly,

You ask a very excellent question - I will answer it to the best of my ability:

In regards to whether or not the elections were observed, if I understand your question rightly? Yes, every mom-and-pop election observing agency was present at the polling places, including the counter-cultural OSCE. Everyone had to use their Domestic Passports in order to even gain admission to the polling place and then once again whilst receiving the ballot. Now, there were groups who exhibited no decorum outside the polling places and they shrieked and grunted their dismay. It was a well-conducted open election.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Well, to continue the foregoing dialogue:

Let me posit that there is the question of Federal rights and States rights in regards to the imposition of the death penalty. Does the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania dare to go against individual States that have the death penalty? Methinks not. Countries outside the US naturally retch at the apparent disconnect - The political rhetoric that is disseminated to the general public and the political rhetoric(National and International, Federal and State) that occurs between the political leaders on secure channels which the general public has no access to is as different as night and day. Does the US constituency have the "balls" to take on their elected representatives or are they too afraid of losing jobs or welfare/pension payouts?

Back to Russia: Now, the sitting chairman of the committee who is in charge of the ballot systems and tabulation systems is under fire. He is currently being investigated by the Attorney General Office in Moscow. Russia awaits the findings. Russia is a fledgling Democracy - It will take a few generations for the growing pains to subside. America has never experienced the clash of civilizations as Russia has e.g. Tatar, Mongol, and other conflicts.

Looking forward to your considered thought, Chi_townPhilly........
 

Chi_townPhilly

Sr. Regulator
Sr. Regulator
Everyone had to use their Domestic Passports in order to even gain admission to the polling place and then once again whilst receiving the ballot.
I heard yesterday a report that in the State of Indiana forged signatures have been discovered in the Nomination Papers for our current President in the 2008 Primary Election.
Yeah... and in the wake of this development Indiana is near the vanguard on policy that will require photo-i.d. as a pre-condition to voting. I suppose I don't have to say which major American political party has lined up to oppose this initiative?

It's spooky to consider that, virtually everywhere in America, one needs more documentation to cash a $5.00 manufacturers rebate check than one needs to have a hand at determining the next "Leader-of-the-Free-World" (if it's still possible to talk in such terms).

Once upon a time, staffers at the Canadian border accepted the US voter-registration card as adequate proof of American citizenship. Those days are long gone. It doesn't take much thought to figure out why. For instance, can anyone say "motor-voter-law?"

As evidenced by my screen-name & avatar, I grew up in Cook County, Illinois. I saw things that you'd normally find in horror movies; e.g.: the dead rising from the grave (if only to cast a ballot). Against this backdrop, I can easily see how denizens of other lands can look at the USA and hearken back to the New Testament wisdom that we should worry about the plank in our own eye before focusing on the speck in someone else's eye. Still, when popular will is the issue, tu quoque is an insufficient defense.

I recognize that this has taken us a little ways away from the specific situation concerning Russian elections. However, I DO want to learn (and explore) how fractiousness and the "clash-of-civilizations" you referenced before are affecting people's attitudes.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear Chi_townPhilly,

Thanx for such well-thought reply. Now there is legislation wending its way through the Duma to authorize the mounting of surveillance cameras that will record what happens at the polling places, except for inside the voting booth where each person decides who to vote for and in the ballot tabulating rooms - All for the sake of transparency. Yes, I remember the accounts of "Dead People Voting".

Russia was a "melting pot" of different civilizations and ethnic groups long before America was even born. So, what does that mean for the Global Community? Depends on one's perspective, but generally speaking there is a continuing dialogue between all the ethnic groups and belief systems. I will posit that Ivan the Terrible, even though he was quite the Tyrannical Despot, had a very futuristic thought plan that saw Russia one day becoming both an Atlantic Power and a Pacific Power.
 
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Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
A continuance:

Russians have historically favored a "Strong Man" in the Kremlin. Therefore, the next President of Russia will be an authority figure. The West has been ridiculing, scoffing at, and deriding President Medvedev. He's quite the thinker and is no simpleton. I tell my friends in America that if they wish to understand Russia, then they must understand her - Russia, through the Faith that Russia was baptized into. The Orthodox Church became the cradle of the Russian Civilization in 988 A.D. Yes, there were contentious and hard-hearted rulers throughout Russia's history. I must warmly recommend for anyone really interested in plumbing Russian history that they should get a hold of Vladimir Solovyev's magisterial work on Russian History. Of course, many will scoff at any religious notions, but the fact of the matter is that civilizations are built on ideas, not ideologies! Communism has failed, Socialism has failed, and Capitalism is in the Coronary Care Unit. Whats left? The Christian heritage built Europe and the West. Emperor Charlemagne decreed that the Church shall care for orphaned children, hospitalizing the sick, caring for the elderly, feeding the hungry, and educating the future generations.

Islam has its own heritage, which we can readily see in Samarkand, Uzbekistan. I can go on - Buddhism we can can see as a conveyor of heritage in Angkor Wat. Back to Russia: the Kremlin knows all too well that more than 100 million Christians call Russia their home. If Russia were ever to try a repeat of the Bolshevik Revolution, its dreams of being a global political and economic player will be forever dashed. Look what happened in China: the Tiananmen Square Massacre - China lost so much face - Its leader Deng Xiaoping was in political tatters after that, with no hope of redemption in the eyes of the worlds community.

However, he uttered the phrase: "To make money is a glorious thing". At that point he opened the floodgates of private and public enterprise. And the world was shocked to see at how prolifically China was able to produce consumer goods - To the point of almost outproducing all the other countries in the world. China's heritage of Confucianism where among other things children respect their parents and Government Authority. Most children in China take care of their parents. So, you have multi-generational families in the same house. According to Confucious, Heaven has a will of its own. In Russia, the Christian Heritage has formed generations of people that it is an expression of Love to care for one's parents, not dump them into a care facility, only to be forgotten about.

Herein ends my Homily this time around........
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi my dear friend big thinker Corno Dolce,

I very willingly second this:

To impute Western-style elections on a Continent that has only known Tyranny by Communism/Socialism for 73 years is to invite catastrophe. There will be a period of transition - 3.5 to 7 generations will have to pass before things can be more "normalized".

Can you read Russian? This is a link to a report of a Russian Orthodox priest who was a free observer by the votes in Moscow.

http://www.pravmir.ru/vybory-kak-eto-bylo-na-samom-dele-chast-2/

This one is also good:

http://news.yahoo.com/anti-putin-protest-draws-tens-thousands-122503909.html
 
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Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hello Br. Andrew,

I do read Russian and I very much enjoy what you have uncovered for me. Mein Freund, Ich wuensche dich eine Froeliche Weihnachten und ein Gutes Neues Jahr - Gruess Gott!!!

CD

NB* Putin might have a terrific struggle on his hands in the Presidential Elections coming in March.
 
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Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi CD,

great that you liked the article! I found it also very interesting.

Did you left US soil for good ??? ( I hope not!! ):D

Well, I hope that something worthy will come out of these protest marches in Russia this time. Putin came as a crisis manager after Yeltzin, who had crashed communists but also had left Russia in a terrible state ( criminality and corruption on all levels, total power of oligarch clans, disgrace of the 1st Chechen War etc. ). Putin had IMHO made a good job in his two pres. terms , considering the huge problems he had to deal with. But now he is - pitifully for me - a sign of stagnation in Russia, I simply think he is a wrong man for the RUS-presidential chair in 2012. Hope that the opposition will bring out a worthy candidate - for now, I don't see someone who could be " a Russian Obama".

What do you think?

PS ich hoffe auch dass Du ein wunderschönes Weihnachtsfeier gehabt hast, im Kreis deiner Familie. Wünsche Dir einen guten Rutsch und ein erfolgsreiches 2012!
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Br. Andrew,

Yes, my wife and I love it so much here that we are "In Process" in re to staying here. Putin is aware that he cannot turn back to an old system using violence. I see him once a month at the Cathedral and I pray for him that he may do noting that will cause untold suffering for Russians. A Russian Obama? I don't see that on the horizon, yet........
 

John Watt

Member
Yes, Mrs. Clinton's cold-war attitude sounds as lame as she's starting to look,
overwhelmed by her own life, even debauched.

The biggest issue coming out of American politics is what they call "voter suppression",
now a part of the Republican leaders' campaign.
For the first time in Canada, they're tracing phone calls to one address from the last election.
Someone was phoning around, saying they were authorized by Elections Canada,
telling people to use voting stations that either didn't exist, or where they couldn't register.
This isn't seen as affecting the outcomes of elections, but it happened across Canada.
They're calling that voter suppression.

Political news from Russia sounds realistic, as far-reaching as that country is.
So far, no unfrozen mastodons have been known to have voted,
even if their opinions are overly reported.
 

wljmrbill

Member
Perhaps Dec. 21, 2012 will shade a great deal of light onto our so called civilized world and the ways we treat each other and their beliefs in this world we all share. Perhaps we all need to remember the famous quote of Jesus "let him who without sin cast the first stone" whether it be politics, elections, disaster relief, life, death or so many other issues. I am lucky as I have many friends from many countries and get an added inside into the real people and their feelings, emotion, philosophy and lot the crap from TV and politicians. Even if I am American I feel many times we need to spend more time keeping our house in order then worrying about others and how they are keeping theirs. oh well my 2 cents worth..
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Yeah... and in the wake ......................
Phill just a small request would it be possible to use a white or yellow text colour I find it hard to pick out one blue on top of another shade of blue ^^
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Bill,

If the most influential countries in the world(Russia, China, U.S. and India) would spend more solving internal stress, the situation would be more tenable for the citizenry. There is one great problem however - How do these countries balance care of the citizenry and avoiding being "Isolationist" in the process? It goes without saying that the major players have a responsibility to help solve problems in the world community before a conflagration flash-ignites, so to speak...think of Syria and Afghanistan. Living outside the U.S. informs me that whether its a Repub or a Demo as resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. the U.S. will always have a "bone to pick" with some country or its leader. The U.S. does not care a whit about what the U.N. says, especially since there are U.N. representatives of thuggish regimes who are nothing but professional murderers.

Former Senate Democrat Daniel Moynihan said it best: The U.N. is the theatre of the absurd! However, reform the U.N. so that it is a League of Democratically elected Nations aka LDN, then methinks that the U.S. would not have to act as the World Policeman. Of course, then there is the legacy of the Cold War - All the forward operating locations, i.e U.S. bases abroad to contain and/or keep countries from causing mayhem and securing the oil line so that China, Japan and other far-eastern and south-eastern countries and Europe and America have access to oil. Then there is the tension between China, Korea, and Japan, especially since Japan does not wish to formally apologize and make monetary restitution to China and Korea for the invasion of China and Korea and the systematic rape of Chinese and Korean women. Japan has an awful histoy of subjugating the Korean Peninsula in order to make it a part of the Japanese Empire. According to the reference books like Janes' All the worlds Navies, Japan has the 3rd largest Navy in the world after the U.S. and Russia. So, what that means is that the U.S. will have a military presence in the Pacific in order to prevent China and Japan from slitting each others throats. Well, herein ends my survey this time around...Over and out.............
 

John Watt

Member
Oh, oh..... it almost hurts, having felt the brunt of that American Global Policeman already,
and watching too much of it as entertainment medias.
I remember Senator Hamilton Fish on the Merv Griffin show, talking about how Japanese islands were taken by Americans.
He talked about how they knew Pearl Harbour was coming, and what America did overseas to drive Japan into war.
"The Yellow Peril", "Japs", "Chinks", considered less than human, not having a soul as a Christian,
or able to have one, what is was for a long time.
The one big thing that unites all those people is the lingering legacy of nuclear destruction, and who dropped those bombs.
That hasn't gone away.
This is as confrontational as I'm going to be, and I feel I'm imposing on Corno Dolce, when I don't want to.
The newspapers are printing pictures of Hillary Clinton dancing during a South American summit,
at the Havana Club, with the sign hanging up underneath her.
Good thing it's above her. There's too much of her now to get around.
You can take that both ways.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear Br. John,

Please, you don't impose - I relish your thoughts and that you can give a refreshing counter-perspective. I have no monopoly on this forum and thankfully so. I love free-ranging and liberating discourse that invigorates, that can shine light upon situations far better than the mainstream media can. Mainstream media has gone from being a watcher of government to being the megaphone of government and has (0) credibility in my eyes.
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Mainstream media has gone from being a watcher of government to being the megaphone of government and has (0) credibility in my eyes.

Not so in NZ Comrade, The media are crucifying our government at the moment, they (government) are selling valuable farm land to the Chinese, we have changed the law to allow Sky City (a gambling business) to have more pokie machines and we are privatising out power generating utilities it is absolute madness
 
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