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Thread: Recent Russian Election

  1. #1
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Recent Russian Election

    Hillary Clinton's latest opening of her trap in re to Russia further confirmed that she has no idea of what it is to not cast stones whilst sitting in a glass house. America still has both Federal and State imposed death penalty - Russia has none. The OSCE said "VOTER FRAUD and INTIMIDATION" - What a bunch of crock! Russian elections will always be noisy affairs - unlike the sheep flocks at US polling stations.

    Maybe America would do well to pressure 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as to what "Managed Democracy" is. The US Ambassador was briefed by officials in Russia somewhat recently on just that issue. To impute Western-style elections on a Continent that has only known Tyranny by Communism/Socialism for 73 years is to invite catastrophe. There will be a period of transition - 3.5 to 7 generations will have to pass before things can be more "normalized".
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  2. #2
    Commodore con Forza GoneBaroque's Avatar
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    Well put CD. I do not believe that any country has the right to impose their form of government on any sovereign nation. As for the U.S. takling about voter fraud in other elections, we should clean our own house first. I heard yesterday a report that in the State of Indiana forged signatures have been discovered in the Nomination Papers for our current President in the 2008 Primary Election .
    The only reason for time is to prevent everything from happening at once - Albert Einstein

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  3. #3
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi GB,

    I will confess that it is horrifically difficult for me to critique the USA, where I was born but I cannot sit idly by and hear unfounded allegations. What is amazing is that Medvedev and Putin do not have such a "supermajority" in the Duma as they did 4 years ago, having lost 15% of the Duma seats. There is a transformation going on here in Russia, no doubt about it........And I am thankful for to be able to witness it. Maybe Russia will never have a system of voter representation like in the US. Its probably impossible for such a system to work here. Russia had Czars before the Revolution - Russian's have historically wanted and want strong leadership in the Kremlin.

    In America, we don't enthrone a Monarch. In Russia there seems to be a grasping for an Enlightened Despot(There are Enlightened Despots, Benign Despots, and Autocratic Despots) - One who can crack the whip but also one who understands that his "subjects" are to be free - Not anarchically free but a freedom with self-restraint, who have access to education so that they can achieve dreams. Most of Russia is "off-line", only those who live in metropolises of 500,000 or more have regular internet habits. Most people are happy that they have just beer, sausages, bread, cabbage, apples, tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, vodka, radio, and TV. They work the land and live in more or less bucolic circumstance - Yes, there are plenty of gritty cities, towns, and villages. There are also many quaint cities, towns, and villages.

    Even those who have not much to subsist on, those who live far from Moscow, will gather money and food and serve up a table full of food when guests come around from far and near. These are people who know the simple and pure pleasures in life, far removed from the noise and confusion of Moscow and St. Petersburg - Truly Fly-Over Country , if you will........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  4. #4
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Chi_townPhilly's Avatar
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    'Twas wondering if you'd have some perspective on this. Now, I probably have as much affection for Hillary Clinton as you do (i.e.: next to none), but in fairness...
    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    Hillary Clinton's latest opening of her trap in re to Russia further confirmed that she has no idea of what it is to not cast stones whilst sitting in a glass house. America still has both Federal and State imposed death penalty - Russia has none.
    sequiturs are not often this non. Still (voluntarily embracing the digression) prominent American politicos seldom make blanket declarations of opposition to the death penalty, as the death penalty is widely popular in the US. Typically, opponents of the death penalty advocate for extensive appeal rights and (occasionally) moratoria [e.g.: Illinois]. All the while, they work sub rosa to install judges whom they trust will eventually again rule the death penalty unconstitutional on the grounds of "cruel & unusual punishment."

    Suppose a person doesn't have to know a lot about Russian history to know ol' uncle Joe's quote about it mattering little who casts the ballots, but rather who counts the ballots. Is it out of line to be curious about whether the casters or the talliers have proven decisive in this instance?

  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi Chi_townPhilly,

    You ask a very excellent question - I will answer it to the best of my ability:

    In regards to whether or not the elections were observed, if I understand your question rightly? Yes, every mom-and-pop election observing agency was present at the polling places, including the counter-cultural OSCE. Everyone had to use their Domestic Passports in order to even gain admission to the polling place and then once again whilst receiving the ballot. Now, there were groups who exhibited no decorum outside the polling places and they shrieked and grunted their dismay. It was a well-conducted open election.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  6. #6
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Well, to continue the foregoing dialogue:

    Let me posit that there is the question of Federal rights and States rights in regards to the imposition of the death penalty. Does the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania dare to go against individual States that have the death penalty? Methinks not. Countries outside the US naturally retch at the apparent disconnect - The political rhetoric that is disseminated to the general public and the political rhetoric(National and International, Federal and State) that occurs between the political leaders on secure channels which the general public has no access to is as different as night and day. Does the US constituency have the "balls" to take on their elected representatives or are they too afraid of losing jobs or welfare/pension payouts?

    Back to Russia: Now, the sitting chairman of the committee who is in charge of the ballot systems and tabulation systems is under fire. He is currently being investigated by the Attorney General Office in Moscow. Russia awaits the findings. Russia is a fledgling Democracy - It will take a few generations for the growing pains to subside. America has never experienced the clash of civilizations as Russia has e.g. Tatar, Mongol, and other conflicts.

    Looking forward to your considered thought, Chi_townPhilly........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  7. #7
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Chi_townPhilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    Everyone had to use their Domestic Passports in order to even gain admission to the polling place and then once again whilst receiving the ballot.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoneBaroque View Post
    I heard yesterday a report that in the State of Indiana forged signatures have been discovered in the Nomination Papers for our current President in the 2008 Primary Election.
    Yeah... and in the wake of this development Indiana is near the vanguard on policy that will require photo-i.d. as a pre-condition to voting. I suppose I don't have to say which major American political party has lined up to oppose this initiative?

    It's spooky to consider that, virtually everywhere in America, one needs more documentation to cash a $5.00 manufacturers rebate check than one needs to have a hand at determining the next "Leader-of-the-Free-World" (if it's still possible to talk in such terms).

    Once upon a time, staffers at the Canadian border accepted the US voter-registration card as adequate proof of American citizenship. Those days are long gone. It doesn't take much thought to figure out why. For instance, can anyone say "motor-voter-law?"

    As evidenced by my screen-name & avatar, I grew up in Cook County, Illinois. I saw things that you'd normally find in horror movies; e.g.: the dead rising from the grave (if only to cast a ballot). Against this backdrop, I can easily see how denizens of other lands can look at the USA and hearken back to the New Testament wisdom that we should worry about the plank in our own eye before focusing on the speck in someone else's eye. Still, when popular will is the issue, tu quoque is an insufficient defense.

    I recognize that this has taken us a little ways away from the specific situation concerning Russian elections. However, I DO want to learn (and explore) how fractiousness and the "clash-of-civilizations" you referenced before are affecting people's attitudes.

  8. #8
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Dear Chi_townPhilly,

    Thanx for such well-thought reply. Now there is legislation wending its way through the Duma to authorize the mounting of surveillance cameras that will record what happens at the polling places, except for inside the voting booth where each person decides who to vote for and in the ballot tabulating rooms - All for the sake of transparency. Yes, I remember the accounts of "Dead People Voting".

    Russia was a "melting pot" of different civilizations and ethnic groups long before America was even born. So, what does that mean for the Global Community? Depends on one's perspective, but generally speaking there is a continuing dialogue between all the ethnic groups and belief systems. I will posit that Ivan the Terrible, even though he was quite the Tyrannical Despot, had a very futuristic thought plan that saw Russia one day becoming both an Atlantic Power and a Pacific Power.
    Last edited by Corno Dolce; Dec-15-2011 at 18:37.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  9. #9
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    A continuance:

    Russians have historically favored a "Strong Man" in the Kremlin. Therefore, the next President of Russia will be an authority figure. The West has been ridiculing, scoffing at, and deriding President Medvedev. He's quite the thinker and is no simpleton. I tell my friends in America that if they wish to understand Russia, then they must understand her - Russia, through the Faith that Russia was baptized into. The Orthodox Church became the cradle of the Russian Civilization in 988 A.D. Yes, there were contentious and hard-hearted rulers throughout Russia's history. I must warmly recommend for anyone really interested in plumbing Russian history that they should get a hold of Vladimir Solovyev's magisterial work on Russian History. Of course, many will scoff at any religious notions, but the fact of the matter is that civilizations are built on ideas, not ideologies! Communism has failed, Socialism has failed, and Capitalism is in the Coronary Care Unit. Whats left? The Christian heritage built Europe and the West. Emperor Charlemagne decreed that the Church shall care for orphaned children, hospitalizing the sick, caring for the elderly, feeding the hungry, and educating the future generations.

    Islam has its own heritage, which we can readily see in Samarkand, Uzbekistan. I can go on - Buddhism we can can see as a conveyor of heritage in Angkor Wat. Back to Russia: the Kremlin knows all too well that more than 100 million Christians call Russia their home. If Russia were ever to try a repeat of the Bolshevik Revolution, its dreams of being a global political and economic player will be forever dashed. Look what happened in China: the Tiananmen Square Massacre - China lost so much face - Its leader Deng Xiaoping was in political tatters after that, with no hope of redemption in the eyes of the worlds community.

    However, he uttered the phrase: "To make money is a glorious thing". At that point he opened the floodgates of private and public enterprise. And the world was shocked to see at how prolifically China was able to produce consumer goods - To the point of almost outproducing all the other countries in the world. China's heritage of Confucianism where among other things children respect their parents and Government Authority. Most children in China take care of their parents. So, you have multi-generational families in the same house. According to Confucious, Heaven has a will of its own. In Russia, the Christian Heritage has formed generations of people that it is an expression of Love to care for one's parents, not dump them into a care facility, only to be forgotten about.

    Herein ends my Homily this time around........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  10. #10
    Commodore con Forza Andrew Roussak's Avatar
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    Hi my dear friend big thinker Corno Dolce,

    I very willingly second this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    To impute Western-style elections on a Continent that has only known Tyranny by Communism/Socialism for 73 years is to invite catastrophe. There will be a period of transition - 3.5 to 7 generations will have to pass before things can be more "normalized".
    Can you read Russian? This is a link to a report of a Russian Orthodox priest who was a free observer by the votes in Moscow.

    http://www.pravmir.ru/vybory-kak-eto...-dele-chast-2/

    This one is also good:

    http://news.yahoo.com/anti-putin-pro...122503909.html
    Last edited by Andrew Roussak; Dec-24-2011 at 18:19.
    "Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk with your eyes turned skywards; for there you have been, and there you long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci


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  11. #11
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hello Br. Andrew,

    I do read Russian and I very much enjoy what you have uncovered for me. Mein Freund, Ich wuensche dich eine Froeliche Weihnachten und ein Gutes Neues Jahr - Gruess Gott!!!

    CD

    NB* Putin might have a terrific struggle on his hands in the Presidential Elections coming in March.
    Last edited by Corno Dolce; Dec-28-2011 at 11:46.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  12. #12
    Commodore con Forza Andrew Roussak's Avatar
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    Hi CD,

    great that you liked the article! I found it also very interesting.

    Did you left US soil for good ??? ( I hope not!! )

    Well, I hope that something worthy will come out of these protest marches in Russia this time. Putin came as a crisis manager after Yeltzin, who had crashed communists but also had left Russia in a terrible state ( criminality and corruption on all levels, total power of oligarch clans, disgrace of the 1st Chechen War etc. ). Putin had IMHO made a good job in his two pres. terms , considering the huge problems he had to deal with. But now he is - pitifully for me - a sign of stagnation in Russia, I simply think he is a wrong man for the RUS-presidential chair in 2012. Hope that the opposition will bring out a worthy candidate - for now, I don't see someone who could be " a Russian Obama".

    What do you think?

    PS ich hoffe auch dass Du ein wunderschönes Weihnachtsfeier gehabt hast, im Kreis deiner Familie. Wünsche Dir einen guten Rutsch und ein erfolgsreiches 2012!
    "Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk with your eyes turned skywards; for there you have been, and there you long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci


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  13. #13
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Br. Andrew,

    Yes, my wife and I love it so much here that we are "In Process" in re to staying here. Putin is aware that he cannot turn back to an old system using violence. I see him once a month at the Cathedral and I pray for him that he may do noting that will cause untold suffering for Russians. A Russian Obama? I don't see that on the horizon, yet........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  14. #14
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    Perhaps Dec. 21, 2012 will shade a great deal of light onto our so called civilized world and the ways we treat each other and their beliefs in this world we all share. Perhaps we all need to remember the famous quote of Jesus "let him who without sin cast the first stone" whether it be politics, elections, disaster relief, life, death or so many other issues. I am lucky as I have many friends from many countries and get an added inside into the real people and their feelings, emotion, philosophy and lot the crap from TV and politicians. Even if I am American I feel many times we need to spend more time keeping our house in order then worrying about others and how they are keeping theirs. oh well my 2 cents worth..
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
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    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  15. #15
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_townPhilly View Post
    Yeah... and in the wake ......................
    Phill just a small request would it be possible to use a white or yellow text colour I find it hard to pick out one blue on top of another shade of blue ^^
    I don’t want a signature any more

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