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Thread: Avant Garde Jazz

  1. #1
    Recruit, Pianissimo
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    Avant Garde Jazz

    I was wondering if any one listened to avant garde jazz I really do enjoy it but it seems hard to find other people who enjoy it too or just even know what the music is one musician that plays avant garde that I do enjoy is Sun Ra very diffrent music

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    Apprentice, Piano Jazzis's Avatar
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    Re: Avant Garde Jazz

    Avant Garde (jazz or anything else) can be most challenging, but than for some also the most rewarding king od intellectual experience.

    It take EDUCATION to understand Avan Garde!

    I have tought jazz to students for many years and often at the begining of the course many people could not stand any music beyond "Take Five", but after a few months they'd happily humm along with "A Love Supreme"

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    Re: Avant Garde Jazz

    So A Love Supreme is considered Avant Garde ?

    Its actually the first Jazz album I bought. And I didnt have any problem listening to it.

    But then again Im not educated in jazz theories so maybe im not trying to 'understand' it and just listen to how it is.

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    hi silentking
    I have listened to some free jazz such as Coltrane's Ascension which is for a large ensemble improvising freely.
    An earlier good one to check out is Out To Lunch by Eric Dolphy.
    Also Ornette Coleman.
    I think Coltrane's A Love Supreme is a mix of modal and free playing which came a few years after Miles Davis Kind of Blue (modal) and the albums 'Free Jazz' and 'The Shape of Jazz to Come' by Ornette Coleman.

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    Recruit, Pianissimo bubba lou's Avatar
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    Pharoah Sanders 'Creator Has A Master Plan' from his "Karma" album is a masterpiece of avant-garde jazz. And yes, I love Sun Ra as well.

  6. #6
    Ensign, Principal Deeru Piotr's Avatar
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    Some of my favourites avant garde jazz records are MU by Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell
    Mingus presents Mingus (thought I'm sure some wouldn't consider this avantgarde to me it is)
    Ornette Coleman Science fiction
    First recording by the Art Ensemble of Chicago
    This time by Anthony Braxton

    none of this requires much education to enjoy the music as I see it they are wonderful and they are funny

  7. #7
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    Avant Garde has to be experienced, if someone just tries to listen to a piece and they have no exposure other than mainstream music it will in my opinion usually turn them off to it.

    You have to ease them into it with something a little avant garde and then slowly take them into it more deeply. Unless by chance they just take to it...

    All music needs a caretaker, and the caretakers have to bring in new visitors slowly and carefully without overwhelming them so some day they can become the caretaker and pass the music on to the next person in the chain.

    McStrum

  8. #8
    Ensign, Principal doctortornface's Avatar
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    So where would a band like Soft Machine sit?
    Things may come things may go ,but the Artschool dance goes on forever.

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    Ensign, Principal Deeru Piotr's Avatar
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    I love Soft Machine and yes they're (to me) another great example of great music that is very serious and is very funny, I would recommend Bundles and Softs
    some can say is not jazz but some kind of rock or jazz rock, but who cares?
    they were just great

  10. #10
    Captain of Water Music pnoom's Avatar
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    I love Avant-Garde rock, and a lot of it has a lot of jazz influence. Some recommendations (not jazz, but jazz-influenced):

    Henry Cow - Western Culture
    Etron Fou Leloublan - Les Poumons Gonfles
    Area - Caution, Radiation Area

    And I second Soft Machine. I've only heard 3rd, but it's a great album.
    "Did anybody see this snowman
    Stand there with the lord
    With proper get up, hang his hat
    Only you're feeling sleepy-eyed"

    -Damo Suzuki

  11. #11
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.) intet_at_tabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeru Piotr View Post
    Some of my favourites avant garde jazz records are MU by Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell
    Mingus presents Mingus (thought I'm sure some wouldn't consider this avantgarde to me it is)
    Ornette Coleman Science fiction
    First recording by the Art Ensemble of Chicago
    This time by Anthony Braxton

    none of this requires much education to enjoy the music as I see it they are wonderful and they are funny
    Hi guys and Deeru Piotr

    If you check with your dictionary - the word avantgarde comes from the french language, in english it means something like ahead or vanguard.

    As a great jazz-freak I have to say Ornette Coleman (alto saxophone and violin) is not exactly my cup up tea, no matter what album or time period in his more than 40-50 years as a musician. However he is very famous within his music, throughout the world. I know of an american, I believe he is an american Steve Reich, who I would consider belonging to the avantgarde in music. Anyone here know of him? You may find some of his work at www.ecm.com

    As for Don Cherry (piccolo trumpet), who btw. used to live in Sveden and the very gifted drummer Ed Blackwell, both of them with Ornette Coleman on numerous albums, not to mention the former Keith Jarrett double bass player Charlie Haden, also prior with Ornette Coleman, there are two albums I like.

    The band is called Old Dreams and New Dreams. The band´s fourth member IMHO one of the jazz tenor saxophone´s best players in decades was Dewey Redman (who pasted away last year, I think), but as we all know his son Joshua Redman will carry on his own career in jazz on the tenor saxophone.

    The two albums are titled "Old Dreams and New Dreams" and "Live". I would enjoy some of your opinions on those albums.

    I never regarded John Coltrane´s "A Love Supreme" as avantgarde, but if you do, fine with me?

    Chick Corea/Dave Holland/Barry Altschul created avantgarde in the early 1970´s on "A.R.C" and the album "Circle" I believe Anthony Braxton joined the band.

    Chick Corea/Miroslav Vitous/Roy Haynes made a double album years ago "Trio - Plays Monk". On the second record in the album, they all improvise which in my untalented ears remind me of Ornette Coleman, though I am a huge fan of each of them.

    Best regards,
    intet-at-tabe

  12. #12
    Ensign, Principal Deeru Piotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intet-at-tabe View Post
    Hi guys and Deeru Piotr

    As for Don Cherry (piccolo trumpet), who btw. used to live in Sveden and the very gifted drummer Ed Blackwell, both of them with Ornette Coleman on numerous albums, not to mention the former Keith Jarrett double bass player Charlie Haden, also prior with Ornette Coleman, there are two albums I like.

    The band is called Old Dreams and New Dreams. The band´s fourth member IMHO one of the jazz tenor saxophone´s best players in decades was Dewey Redman (who pasted away last year, I think), but as we all know his son Joshua Redman will carry on his own career in jazz on the tenor saxophone.

    The two albums are titled "Old Dreams and New Dreams" and "Live". I would enjoy some of your opinions on those albums.

    I never regarded John Coltrane´s "A Love Supreme" as avantgarde, but if you do, fine with me?

    Chick Corea/Dave Holland/Barry Altschul created avantgarde in the early 1970´s on "A.R.C" and the album "Circle" I believe Anthony Braxton joined the band.

    Chick Corea/Miroslav Vitous/Roy Haynes made a double album years ago "Trio - Plays Monk". On the second record in the album, they all improvise which in my untalented ears remind me of Ornette Coleman, though I am a huge fan of each of them.

    Best regards,
    intet-at-tabe
    Great recommendations intet-at-abe!

    I love Don Cherry in fact other of my "free" favourite records is MU the duet he recorded with Ed Blackwell (fantastic drummer), I've listened to Old and new dreams and yes is fabulous I'll look for that live record.
    the trio record by corea, vitous and haynes is great also (well you sure like ECM)

  13. #13
    Ensign, Principal Deeru Piotr's Avatar
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    I forgot to recommend a record I discovered recently is called Raining on the moon by William Parker, great playing, fantastic lyrics (there's a couple of songs with a singer) and very easy to listen, very funny.

  14. #14
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.) intet_at_tabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeru Piotr View Post
    I forgot to recommend a record I discovered recently is called Raining on the moon by William Parker, great playing, fantastic lyrics (there's a couple of songs with a singer) and very easy to listen, very funny.
    Hi again Deeru Piotr

    Is this album "Raining on the moon" by William Parker with the ECM Records. If not ,would you be so kind to enter the record label?

    Happy you enjoyed the "Old Dreams, new dreams".

    I once at a friends house years ago heard Pat Mehteny with Ornette Coleman on PM´s album "Song X". It was from the old vinyl days. A friend of mine, suggested for me to buy it from him, since he did not like it one bit. Neither did I. I suggested to him to use the vinyl record as a present for someone he did not like or as a freesbie .

    Best regards,
    intet-at-tabe

  15. #15
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    Jeeeaaah! This topic is for me!
    Silentking, do you know John Cage or Fred Frith?
    please email me! I need people who open minded to music to sounds. I have some great dvd avantgarde, experimental. We sould talk a lot about it. I am thirsting for other people thinks.

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