Interesting things in the sciences

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Do you believe randomness?
Things that we do not understand often get explained away as some thing else in these two clips a complicated act of motion could be called random but if you understand all the physics it is entirely predictable not random.


The same IMO would apply to the idea of free will

Clip#1 Double Pendulum

Clip #2 Triple Pendulum


 
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John Watt

Member
Nothing is random, if you know where it's coming from and where it's going.
Some would say everything throughout eternity has been preordained.
That's what I'm working on now, being ordained eternally.

This isn't far from synchronicity, which can be Biblical in nature.
Sometimes, if you think about what you want, it can be there in front of you.
It's more than just beautiful when my life keeps working that way.
I was worried about someone, a young, left-handed guitarist, and another friend.
When I woke up Sunday, I felt like I didn't know what to do, even though I have invitations from churches.
So I just went outside and he was walking by, so we had a heart to heart talk.
As soon as he left, the wife of a drummer friend, and another source of worried concern,
came down the sidewalk, riding her electric chair, and we talked for a while.
That was a very synchronistic way to start my Sunday, and I thought my social do-gooding could only be over,
but another and new synchronistic event also changed my consciousness, and carried me through the day.

Deciding what music you feel like listening to can be what it takes to create some synchronicity for you.
I hope your whole day is in tune with you.
 

Widukind

New member
The system is not really predictable because it's behaviour depends so very closely on the initial situation: a very small change in the initial situation can be the cause of a completely different behaviour of the system. This is where fractals come from.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Fractals, eh??? Would you care to expand on your reasoning on Fractals? Inquiring minds wish to know...If you find some difficulty, the people over at Wolfram can be very helpful...I very often have used their services...:tiphat:
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
The system is not really predictable because it's behaviour depends so very closely on the initial situation: a very small change in the initial situation can be the cause of a completely different behaviour of the system. This is where fractals come from.



So you do not agree that if you understand all the physics it is entirely predictable not random.
 

Widukind

New member
I will grant you, that the movenment of the double pendulum is computable if the initial situation is known exactly. But is it therefore predictable?
Well, what exactly is predictable? Is the weather predictable? Yes, for a short time, more or less. Not for a longer period because the weather depends critically on the initial situation. You can't measure the initial situation good enough and therefore you can't predict the weather for a longer period.
For the double pendulum it is more or less the same. This is explained better on Wikipedia.
BTW thank you for the link to these demonstration, very nice to look at.
 

teddy

Duckmeister
I agree that everything is predictable, provided that you know the exact circumstances. But the slightest outside influence can make dramatic changes, and these influences can not usually be predicted. I became interested in fractals after reading the book, Jurassic Park. Something I mean to investigate further (probably when I retire)

teddy
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
The system is not really predictable because it's behaviour depends so very closely on the initial situation: a very small change in the initial situation can be the cause of a completely different behaviour of the system. This is where fractals come from.
I think it is entirely predictable if as I said all the physics are understood as well as the inputs. I thought I had a layman's understanding of Fractals but can not understand where they enter the given situation I really would appreciate it if you could explain :)
 

John Watt

Member
When most people think of symphonies, one of the most memorable aspects of a symphonic concert is
hearing the musicians tuning up, something you can equate with a "crash and burn" rock band song ending,
another audio cliche.
Maybe it's the microtones tuning generates that imprints it on the human mind as a unique musical experience.
And I'm typing microtones as a musical fractal expression.
 

Widukind

New member
I think it is entirely predictable if as I said all the physics are understood as well as the inputs. I thought I had a layman's understanding of Fractals but can not understand where they enter the given situation I really would appreciate it if you could explain :)

Googling on " "double pendulum" fractal " brings you to a scientific paper called The Double Pendulum Fractal by Jeremy S. Heyl. The mathematics is not really necessary. He calculates the time needed before the first flipover depending on the initial situation (position of both pendulums), and shows it in the figure. According to him this picture has fractal nature.
I'm sorry I can't be more explicit but i"m not a mathematician myself (I'm a physicist).
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
I must have a look.
A bit latter on:
Very interesting I did a little searching on the www and found:
Laplace’s prediction
 
If we were to know the exact position of every particle in the universe then we could predict the future with certainty
Therefore = no free will

This is the point that in my simple mind I was making but I also found that unpredictability/Chaos is the science of the 21st century and questions this in a way that is beyond my understanding.
I still do not understand and probably could not any way the connection to Fractals.


What type of Physicist are you?
 
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John Watt

Member
If a musician records spontaneously,
and memorizes the recording for stage performances,
is he being a spontaneous performer?

Mankind will never be able to get outside our universe to look back at the body we inhabit.
Sometimes free will is a lack of direction.
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Very great wisdom JW is any music played the same way twice?
 

teddy

Duckmeister
I would say that it would be impossible to exactly duplicate a piece of music, even if it sounded to us as if it was being done. As we know even a change in humidity will effect the instrument (s) being played.

teddy
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Quite right teddy but even in a controlled environment the actual production of the note string/wind would vary, the string stopped say 1/64 inch higher or lower the force of breath softer or a shade harder in a wind instrument plus the interpretation which however hard the musician tried would never be as it was the last time it was played, so we can agree that the odds against replicating a musical passage would be astro blooming nomical. I am not sure where that has got us but it just goes to show eh.
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
FEEL BETTER. IT’S NOT MY FAULT AT ALL - IT’S THE DARNED DOOR.



From Reader's Digest:
"Ever walk into a room with some purpose in mind, only to completely forget what that purpose was?
Turns out, doors themselves are to blame for these strange memory lapses.
Psychologists at the University of Notre Dame have discovered that passing through a doorway triggers what's known as an "event boundary" in the mind, separating one set of thoughts and memories from the next.
Your brain files away the thoughts you had in the previous room and prepares a blank slate for the new locale."



So you see, it's not ageing, it's that bl**dy door!

 

teddy

Duckmeister
Funny, I always enjoyed The Doors. I wondered why I had memory lapses while listening to them. I used to put it down the the hand rolled cigarettes I used to smoke.

teddy
 
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