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Thread: Wanted to share :)

  1. #1
    Captain of Water Music musicteach's Avatar
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    Wanted to share :)

    As the title says, I wanted to share this with everyone. I've noticed that even with with musicians that have been playing for decades upon decades that a lot of musicians seem to have issues with weird time signatures, such as 12/16 time:


    So what I wish to explain will hopefully help you in your own playing, if you are having issues!

    But before we can do this, we must first explore what a "time signature" is. All it does, which of course most of us know, it tells us how many beats there are per measure, and what subdivision gets the beat. Let's look at 12/16 time.

    The 12 tells us that there are 12 beats per measure, and that each sixteenth note gets the beat.
    As musicians, we have to realize that music is simply the art of interpretation and that everything is relevant. What I mean is, that just about everything in music is subjective to how you as the performer look at it. We also most realize is that music is simply applied math.
    This being said, does this:

    equal this:
    ?

    Aside from groupings, the answer is yes! There's too ways you can go about playing 12/16 time (or my personal favourite 20/16). This applies to all other time signatures with a smaller subdivision then an eighth note. You can try to count 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 every single measure or you can count 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a. In playing, there really isn't a difference between 3/4 and 12/16 when the entire piece is written in that time signature.

    When you change the subdivision of measure, all you're really doing is changing where the quarter note lands. As musicians we're taught from day one that quarters get one beat. That's because as a young musician, all we're going to be playing is stuff in 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, and possibly 5/4. This becomes a problem when suddenly you see 3/8 or 9/8 or 12/16 etc etc thrown into a piece of music. Especially young students have difficulty grasping the concept of how exactly do you count these. And it's only mathematics, and applying things you've already know! Even 9/8 time can be done doing this.

    Here you see a masure of 9/8 time followed by a measure of 3/4 time. Look at the grouping of the eighth notes. They are exactly the same! The notation is slightly different because of the time signatures, but the point remains. Again, you can count 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 each measure or you can count 1 trip let 2 trip let 3 trip let each measure. Which is easier?

    Hope that helps if anyone is having issues!
    Music education opens doors that help children pass from school into the world around them-a world of work, culture, intellectual activity, and human involvement. The future of our Nation depends on providing our children with a complete education that includes music. -Gerald Ford

  2. #2
    Duckmeister teddy's Avatar
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    Thats an interesting explanation. Even I can understand it

    teddy
    Pining for the South of France

  3. #3
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Musicteach,

    Thanks for posting this ... great information for the non-musician and for those just getting into music.

    Our choir director keeps telling this to our singers ... just because the time signature changes from 6/8 to 7/8, it doesn't change the note value - it's still an eighth note.

  4. #4
    Captain of Water Music musicteach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    Musicteach,

    Thanks for posting this ... great information for the non-musician and for those just getting into music.

    Our choir director keeps telling this to our singers ... just because the time signature changes from 6/8 to 7/8, it doesn't change the note value - it's still an eighth note.
    Thanks I think when we apply it in such a matter of thinking...suddenly, performing such things as 12/16 or 20/16 time becomes 10x easier.

    Another thing I found out today, and I'm 100% sure this will blow your mind. We all know that there's only a certain number of octaves and pitches that the human ear can hear. This raises the question of will we ever exhaust the number of unique melodic possibilities. This creates a finite number of possibilities. However, this number is massively large that we will never​ exhaust it.
    Music education opens doors that help children pass from school into the world around them-a world of work, culture, intellectual activity, and human involvement. The future of our Nation depends on providing our children with a complete education that includes music. -Gerald Ford

  5. #5
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicteach View Post
    Another thing I found out today, and I'm 100% sure this will blow your mind. We all know that there's only a certain number of octaves and pitches that the human ear can hear. This raises the question of will we ever exhaust the number of unique melodic possibilities. This creates a finite number of possibilities. However, this number is massively large that we will never​ exhaust it.
    Methinks some of the more avant garde are having a darned discordant try!
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  6. #6
    Captain of Water Music musicteach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watt View Post
    It's amazing for me to think that the range of human hearing, all aspects of human hearing,
    are just a small part on an eternal scale. Same as sight and smell.
    As far as using too many notes goes, Mozart may have died in vain.
    It really is! There's only a very very limited range that our senses can detect.
    Music education opens doors that help children pass from school into the world around them-a world of work, culture, intellectual activity, and human involvement. The future of our Nation depends on providing our children with a complete education that includes music. -Gerald Ford

  7. #7
    Recruit, Pianissimo
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    Thanks for this post :-)

  8. #8
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicteach View Post
    Thanks I think when we apply it in such a matter of thinking...suddenly, performing such things as 12/16 or 20/16 time becomes 10x easier.

    Another thing I found out today, and I'm 100% sure this will blow your mind. We all know that there's only a certain number of octaves and pitches that the human ear can hear. This raises the question of will we ever exhaust the number of unique melodic possibilities. This creates a finite number of possibilities. However, this number is massively large that we will never​ exhaust it.
    Average Human hearing from 20Hz-20Khz, frequencies in which we can distinguish every individual musical "note" - I question the research used to "settle" the question. I have normal hearing but yet I can distinguish individual musical notes far below 20Hz.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  9. #9
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    thanks for sharing....

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