-
Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.
This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.
As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.
In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.
(Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)
Many kind regards
Frederik Magle
Administrator
Krummhorn
Co-Administrator
Suite Gothique - Boellmann
- Thread starter Nikam
- Start date
el_supremo
New member
Wow. And she played it from memory!
I'm just watching/listening to her play Liszt's "Ad nos ad salutarem undam", also from memory! And watch her feet fly at about 1:30
Pete
I'm just watching/listening to her play Liszt's "Ad nos ad salutarem undam", also from memory! And watch her feet fly at about 1:30
Pete
Nikam
New member
Amazing ability! According to her biography, she only began playing the organ when she was 20. The link below is not in English, but 'school French' should mostly suffice to get the gist of it.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Ksiazkiewicz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Ksiazkiewicz
. Too many organist take this Toccata at break neck speed for odd reasons. This tempo is absolutely perfect, imo. 
dll927
New member
I still think that a lot of the ambulance-chasing tempi are just an attempt to show off that they can do it. I have a hard time believing that the original composers played that fast - especially in view of the organs they played at the time. What is more, in a large church with a long reverberation time, it would be just a cacaphony of noise.
Some years ago, Sir George Solti and the Chicago Symphony recorded a complete set of Beethoven's symphonies on CD's. The accompanying booklet made quite a to-do about how the symphonies should be played "faster than is normally done". It seems that Ludwig left at least some "metronome markings" on his music. That may be debatable, but if true, why did it take conductors 150 years to "discover" them???
It is sometimes said that the most important stop in an organ is the room it plays in. Especially with baroque-era music, overly fast tempi obliterate the various voices in a fugue or whatever. Just trying to show that it can be done doesn't prove much.
Some years ago, Sir George Solti and the Chicago Symphony recorded a complete set of Beethoven's symphonies on CD's. The accompanying booklet made quite a to-do about how the symphonies should be played "faster than is normally done". It seems that Ludwig left at least some "metronome markings" on his music. That may be debatable, but if true, why did it take conductors 150 years to "discover" them???
It is sometimes said that the most important stop in an organ is the room it plays in. Especially with baroque-era music, overly fast tempi obliterate the various voices in a fugue or whatever. Just trying to show that it can be done doesn't prove much.
Leisesturm
New member
This is literally my first post on this forum. I searched using Google, for a pipe organ forum to ask a burning question about the Boellmann Toccata. Not only do I find a music site with a pipe organ forum, but it also has an open discussion on the Boellmann Toccata... ... how cool is that? So, hello all. I have listened to the link even though I am sort of hijacking the topic. Hopefully it isn't a bad sort of hijack. To stay with the topic for a moment I will say that I think characterizing the tempo as "comfortable" is unfortunate. It does not appear all that "comfortable" for the performer. Quite likely she is maxxed out even at this "comfortable" tempo. I would be. And maybe that is the point. We should all be free to play a work within the limits of our technique without apology. A slow, clean performance ought not to be derided, but it would be. A hyperfast one is also derided but that is pure sour grapes. If I could play as fast a Julian Beswig as cleanly as he does, I WOULD! And I would want the world to know I could. I don't see anything wrong with that. But it should be clean and as musical as is possible under those conditions. I've heard some hyper-fast Bach that brought out amazing phrasings that aren't apparent at slower tempi. Bach may not have been able to even imagine the tempi attainable by a Cameron Carpenter but his genius is such that it cannot be harmed by such treatment. It's like a fractal artwork, the more you speed it up, the more inner detail you find.
Here is my question about the Boellmann piece: On just about any recording of this piece you can find, the pedal line swings in a way that is not indicated by the written score. It doesn't sound bad, it almost sounds like what should have been written in the first place. I find it hard to do... take a full half beat off the leading half note in the pedal melody but play the full set of 1/16th notes in the right hand. This present performance does not swing as much as others, but even she does something odd with the 3rd beat quarter note, no doubt because she has internalized all those existing performances which almost sound as if the piece were witten in 3/4 time rather than 4/4. How do you fit the proper number of 1/16 notes into the right hand figures and still get a pedal line that doesn't sound stilted???
Back on topic, I don't know if their really is any national bias in the penchant for hyper fast performance. Is it possible to find a performance of the Prelude and Fugue in B major (a work that AFAIK has not been recorded (on youtube) by any Americans). If I were to finish learning this piece and put it up on youtube, the contrast between my tempo and the tempi of all the other performances there would be VAST. All of the nuances of the composition are lost at the insane tempi that modern musicians are able to achieve. Dupre doesn't scale up as nicely as does Bach I feel.
With the Boellmann I don't think it is so much tempo, but the desire to get the pedal line to sing pleasingly, overwhelms the dictates of the notation. I'll admit to not knowing how to resolve the dilemma and hence this post. Any thoughts?
H
Here is my question about the Boellmann piece: On just about any recording of this piece you can find, the pedal line swings in a way that is not indicated by the written score. It doesn't sound bad, it almost sounds like what should have been written in the first place. I find it hard to do... take a full half beat off the leading half note in the pedal melody but play the full set of 1/16th notes in the right hand. This present performance does not swing as much as others, but even she does something odd with the 3rd beat quarter note, no doubt because she has internalized all those existing performances which almost sound as if the piece were witten in 3/4 time rather than 4/4. How do you fit the proper number of 1/16 notes into the right hand figures and still get a pedal line that doesn't sound stilted???
Back on topic, I don't know if their really is any national bias in the penchant for hyper fast performance. Is it possible to find a performance of the Prelude and Fugue in B major (a work that AFAIK has not been recorded (on youtube) by any Americans). If I were to finish learning this piece and put it up on youtube, the contrast between my tempo and the tempi of all the other performances there would be VAST. All of the nuances of the composition are lost at the insane tempi that modern musicians are able to achieve. Dupre doesn't scale up as nicely as does Bach I feel.
With the Boellmann I don't think it is so much tempo, but the desire to get the pedal line to sing pleasingly, overwhelms the dictates of the notation. I'll admit to not knowing how to resolve the dilemma and hence this post. Any thoughts?
H