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GrandOrgue rev 1331 with demo organ posted on SF

JLD

New member
It is 47 MB.
Few improvments, fixes and includes latest help updates from JP.
 

mutzik57

New member
Hi,

I've tried this version, but as other 64 bit version, I've a blank screen (transparency) when i push on escape key
Coming back to ver 1289, no more problems on that

Now for this release, I've seen there are the same pipes used for several stops, one octave higher to make a flute 4' from a 8'
Sounds good, thx
 

mutzik57

New member
sorry, I forgott,
Is there a special procedure to uninstall grandorgue properly, like suppress somthing from the registry or elsewhere
or just use windows uninstall feature
 

JLD

New member
Thanks for feedback.

Concerning uninstall, I must admit I do it the "dirty" way by removing manually "Our Organ" entry in the registry.
Maybe Martin has a better advise on how to do it.

My 64bit computer is down and I couldn't test latest version.
Will do it next weekend to try duplicate problem.

The demo indeed uses extensively GO new features to reuse pipes at different pitch and mix ranks to create "virtual" stops.
I think Lars did an excellent job, which results in a very nice set with very small size.




JL
 

wehtam721

New member
I've been using this version since you posted about it. I didn't download the build with the demo organ though, just the standard build. I haven't had any problems at all with the build. If it would be helpful to have some feedback about the build which includes the demo set, I can try that later tonight and get back to you. Let me know if I should try anything in particular.

Matt
 

JLD

New member
There is no difference with the version with the demo.
Could just be interesting to comment on the demo organ itself if you have a chance.
 

wehtam721

New member
That's what I figured, but I just thought it was worth pointing out just in case.

I've had the chance to play with the demo organ a little bit and it is incredible the amount of flexibility that the organ shows considering the very small amount of memory needed. The variety of stops is good and I think it does a pretty nice job of showing what GrandOrgue has to offer. The only thing that I did notice was that the more the samples are stretched, the noisier they seem to be. The notes around C seem to have more noise in them as they've been stretched the farthest. I'm sure that this is partly due to the samples having been changed to save space in the demo as I haven't noticed this before. What I did discover from this, though, is that it seems that the algorithm for pitch shifting may perform better at shifting notes up than down. Playing a B on the keyboard (the G sample shifted up 400 cents) doesn't produce much extra noise at all. Playing an Eb in the same octave (the G sample shifted down 400 cents) produces significantly more noise. I found this rather interesting and I'm wondering if anyone else has made the same observations. All of that being said, I love the sound of the flutes in particular and, in my opinion, the demo does exactly what it should do. It gives people something to try right out of the box to give them an idea of what's possible.

Lastly, and this is just my opinion, I was wondering if it might be nice to have some setter elements (something like 5 generals, a set, and maybe a GC) visible on the main panel. I know that these are all available in the panels menu, but for somebody that's brand new to using GrandOrgue, it might be nice to display some of these right on the main panel to show, at first glance, that combination action functionality is supported with the program.

Just a few thoughts. I certainly don't mean any of this as a criticism of the work that's been done here. I know a lot of people have time and energy invested in making the demo sample set (and lots of other parts of the program) come to life and it's certainly well done and very much appreciated. I can't thank you all enough for the time you commit to making GrandOrgue better all of the time!

Take care,
Matt
 
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e9925248

New member
I've tried this version, but as other 64 bit version, I've a blank screen (transparency) when i push on escape key
Coming back to ver 1289, no more problems on that

I can't spot any change, which results in such behaviour. Are other users seeing such behaviour too?
 

e9925248

New member
Is there a special procedure to uninstall grandorgue properly, like suppress somthing from the registry or elsewhere
or just use windows uninstall feature

The GO install just drops all files into a directory and adds a file association for .organ files - the uninstaller removes these files. It never touches user settings. You could use GO, if you just copy its install directory to a computer.

It is even possible to install multiple GO versions in different directories, but as all GO versions use the same user settings, older versions might destroy/delete some user settings.

User settings are:
* Cache folder - can be deleted any time
* Settings folder, which contains all saved organ settings
* Global GO settings - HKEY_CURRENT_USER under "Our Organ" key on Windows systems
[ If you use the -i parameter, you will use a second set of these settings. ]

These settings surive GO uninstalls - normally this is not a problem.
 

e9925248

New member
The only thing that I did notice was that the more the samples are stretched, the noisier they seem to be. The notes around C seem to have more noise in them as they've been stretched the farthest.

Linear or Polyphase (while lossless compression off)? Polyphase got some improvments (https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive....ir2.yahoo.com&forum_name=ourorgan-developers)

Yes, Lars has done an amzaing job squezing such much organ in that few MB - but it is not (and probably will never be) finished.

We don't want to increase on-disk size of the samples - anything else can be improved/changed.

Adjusting the volume of each pipe separatly could improve the organ futher. Maybe using a different sample from the existing set for some pipes is also a improvement.

To be a true demo of the GO capatibilties, we will probably need to add:
* GUI console
* Effect noises
* Fixed combinations
* a few setter elements
* ....

This is a open source project, so anybody can improve the demo organ and can submit the changes for inclusion in the next GO version.
 

Ghekorg7 (Ret)

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret)
Hi !
No issues with latest 1331 x64 win7 here. It installed OK (over the existing one) remembering all settings from the previous version.
It works smooth as a breeze. Demo organ too. Good initiative ! It shows many users how to create some more stops when needed and ram and/or HDD space is not enough.

My question is can we get drawstop FX now with 1331 (using switches?). Is there a tutorial?
 

wehtam721

New member
Linear or Polyphase (while lossless compression off)?

My initial findings were based on linear with lossless compression on, but I have since tried linear and polyphase with lossless compression off and had the same results. The amount of noise changes slightly with different settings, but it's hard to generalize. It seems to affect different stops and different pitches differently, so saying one is better than the other is hard to do.

Maybe using a different sample from the existing set for some pipes is also a improvement.

Maybe I'll try messing around with this just for fun and see what I come up with. What are the "parent" stops for each of the ranks in the demo organ so I can pull other notes from them to try? I'm guessing this is a question for Lars. I'll take a look at adding some of the other capabilities too and if I come up with anything interesting, I'll share my work.

Thanks for getting back to me with this feedback. If having more details from me would be helpful, let me know. I've also attached two very short audio clips to illustrate the type of noise I'm talking about. They use the Flute douce 4' stop, sounding in 3 octaves. Each recording is four notes: G, B, G, Eb. It's much easier to hear using headphones, but the B has very little static sound compared to the Eb and it's easiest to notice the static when you listen to the release.
 

Attachments

  • test (linear lossless).mp3
    512.3 KB · Views: 3
  • test (poly).mp3
    553.5 KB · Views: 2

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

I've too noted a substantial increase of hiss noise around certain notes, especially noticeable at high volume levels during releases. It could be that the noise level of the original sample is a bit high (or contain certain noise information) that will be amplified in the stretching/resampling process. (if multiple sounds contain the same information they will amplify that very information too)

The demo sampleset is dual licensed (GNU GPL and Creative Commons 2.5 BY-SA). All help is welcome! The samples all come from the extended parts of new Kalvträsk sampleset (not any from the original version). I could of course check more closely exact which stops were used. I first selected which notes to use and then changed samplerate and bit rate in one export, put in the pitch info back again and looped/released the newly processed samples once more. As Martin suggests it's likely possible to get (at least a little) better results if one would use other sampled notes from the source stops but I've not taken the time to investigate it further. Too much to do right now...

It's certainly possible to have drawstop effects by now using switches! Unfortunately I've been much too busy but I have a first example of the .organ file (and some additional samples) for the original Kalvträsk sampleset available for download somewhere so that Martin could check my usage (I need to find where it's uploaded to though). I've begun refining the new files and also adding effects to the extended version but all sampleset work has unfortunately come to a halt right now due to too high workload (both at work and at home). I hope to get time to finish it before too long. Many other projects I wish to continue to work on too!

Kind regards

Lars P
 
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wehtam721

New member
Thanks for the information about how the demo set was put together. If you find the example you have (or if anyone else has one) about how to implement switches, I can look into this for the demo set for creating the effects and I'll look at the samples too. I'll try experimenting with it, but it's always easier to have a sample to work from. Starting this weekend, I should have some free time so hopefully I'll be able to work on the demo set a bit then (if not a bit sooner).

Take care,
Matt
 

L.Palo

New member
Right, thanks Martin!

This was just a first prototype, I've refined it a bit more. This organ file should work too View attachment kalvtrask.organ and is a bit more recent. Eventually I'll make a complete patch for the extended version too but this shows how to use the switches for stop noises and also (on the noise panel) a small example on how to create a true appel d'anches combination system if you can read between the lines...

Kind regards

Lars P
 

wehtam721

New member
I'm working on making some revisions to the demo organ now. Can anyone give me some additional insight into how to use the harmonic number other than what is in the help documents? I noticed that Lars used it when defining the pipes of the mixtures, but if I change the samples that these mixtures reference, I'm not sure what to make the harmonic number. I understand the calculation given in the GO help, but I'm not sure how the rank size was determined or why it changes throughout the pipe definitions. Thanks for the help with this. I'm hoping to have my work posted by the end of the weekend.

Take care,
Matt
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

Harmonic number (together with the pipe number, starting midi/key number etc) decides what pitch will be targeted when any re-tuning takes place (ie. any other temerament than original is chosen). That pitch will be compared with what pitch info is present (either embedded in the .wav file or supplied in the odf) for the pipe and then the necessary adjustments will be done by means of resampling.

As long as you don't try to change the ranks pitch repetitions you won't need to change the Pipe999HarmonicNumber= lines. If you want other pitches though, then you'll need to change them. What's good with the HarmonicNumber is that it takes into account how the mutation ranks should be tuned (according to the harmonic series) without you needing to bother about it.

I use LoopAuditioneer to embedd the pitch info into the .wav files but it's of course possible to specify them in the odf directly, it only needs some more lines (each pipe)...

The reason for the layout in the odf like I've done is to mimic how a real pipe organ rank for a repeating mixture would look like. Because of the repetitions (jump backs in pitch) within the rank one cannot have a single HarmonicNumber for the whole rank but needs to specify it where the breaks occur.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

wehtam721

New member
I'm almost done with all of the revisions that I was hoping to make to the demo set. I was wondering if it is possible to use switches with a tremulant object. If so, how should this be done? I've figured out how switches work in general, and have implemented them with stop objects and coupler objects, but the tremulant didn't work as I was expecting it to (if it's possible to use them with tremulants). If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it. Once I hear back about this, I should be able to post the revisions very shortly thereafter.

Take care,
Matt
 
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