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Thread: Questions about Grandorgue (newbie)

  1. #1
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    Question Questions about Grandorgue (newbie)

    Dear all,

    As experienced user of jOrgan I am now also playing around with GrandOrgue together with the nice Burea Church Extended.
    As fairly new to this and I have some starter questions.

    Would it be possible to change the screensize somewhere? Since I'm using a smaller 15" touchscreen that nicely fits in my console, the widescreen design is too big. I have or scroll both horizontal and vertical to control al stops and buttons.

    Second the organ has 30 preset buttons which I like. Is it possible to have an incrementer that step up one preset when pushed. In that way I can prepare different combinations and easily step up with one button when playing.

    My last question, is it possible is it possible to adjust a little bit the different tremulant to users taste in eg frequency, pitch and amplitude.

    Best regards,
    Dries Nelemans
    The Netherlands

  2. #2
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    I'll start with the easiest change. The tremulants can be adjusted by altering the necessary lines in the .organ file. You're looking for a section relatively near the beginning of the file which looks like this:


    [Tremulant001]
    Name=Tremulant
    Comments=
    Period=180
    AmpModDepth=15
    ShortcutKey=43
    StartRate=6
    StopRate=6
    ...


    There will be some other lines too, but these are the ones that control the effect of the tremulant. GrandOrgue tremulants are currently only amplitude based, so there isn't a pitch control. Changing the AmpModDepth line will control how much the amplitude changes. A bigger number indicates a bigger change. The frequency is controlled by changing the Period line. Since frequency and period are reciprocals of one another, lowering the period will increase the frequency. You can change these values, save the document, then reload the organ in GrandOrgue to test out the changes.


    Next, regarding the presets, there are two ways to go about doing what you would like. Both are available from the "Panel" menu. The first is the "Combination Setter". This panel allows you to program up to 1000 combinations in a predefined sequence. Then you can use the "Next" and "Previous" buttons to step forward and backward through them. More information about this is available in this video screencast by Lars. The information about the combination setter starts at about 8:00 into the video clip.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLm9DdwO7Ns

    The second way to achieve varying combinations is to use the generals panel. This is mentioned by Lars in the video above also, but it has changed a bit since he made the video. The generals panel now provides 50 general combinations. On this panel the "Next" and "Prev" buttons function like banks of generals. So rather than stepping through your combinations one at a time, this panel allows you to program the generals to midi devices on your console and then have many "banks" or "memory levels" of storage for each piston. Both methods give you better access to your combination action information, and you can choose to use one or the other, or you can use them both together.

    Lastly, regarding changing the screen size, this is possible as GrandOrgue allows for smaller window sizes, but it would require the entire interface to be redesigned. GrandOrgue won't automatically scale the display down to match a smaller window, so if the window were smaller, some of the stop controls near the edges would be cutoff and GrandOrgue would report an error. The easiest way to create a solution for your situation would probably be to create an additional panel with all of the stop controls which doesn't show the manuals (as this would save lots of space). If you can be more specific about the resolution of your monitor and the controls you want/need to be able to see, I'd be happy to help you come up with a solution that works for your setup.

    I hope that this helps! If you have any other questions, just ask. This is a great community of users and they've all helped me countless times as well. If there's anything I can clarify, let me know.

    Take care and have fun getting to know GrandOrgue!,
    Matt
    Last edited by wehtam721; Aug-02-2013 at 17:46.

  3. #3
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    Hi Matt,

    Thank you very much for your clear answers.
    I watched the video and the combination setter is where I was looking for.
    Do you know the difference between Regular, Scope and Scoped?
    And the function off the full button ?

    Also increased the period of each tremulant a little bit to get it slower.
    I have changed tremulant001 and 002 and 003.
    How do I know which one belongs to which division?

    I am using a 15" touchscreen with resolution 1024x768.

    Best regards,
    Dries

  4. #4
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    You're very welcome! I'm glad that it was helpful!

    Regarding regular, scope, scoped and full, these buttons control how much of the organ is stored to each of the combinations. Regular means that the memory slot will remember the state of all stops/couplers (except any that may be set to permanently on/off in the ODF). Scope and scoped work together to allow you to control only a certain part of the stops (similar to how a divisional piston might work). You use scope to set which stops/couplers you want the memory slot to look at (so if you wanted it to control just the Great division, you'd select scope, turn on all of the stops in the Great and then set current). Then use scoped to set the combination for that memory level. Full is just like regular, except that it ignores anything specified in the ODF about permanently on/off and allows changing those stops as well.

    Lars has produced a screencast about this as well which will make it much easier to understand if you can see it in use. It's a little bit tough to explain in words.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOvSGlDk-PQ

    Regarding knowing which tremulants go to each division, look in the ODF for the manual sections. In the [Manual001], [Manual002], and [Manual003] sections, you should see some lines like this:

    [Manual002]
    Name=Great
    ...
    NumberOfTremulants=1
    Tremulant001=003
    ...

    In this example, tremulant003 would be assigned to Manual002, which in this case would be the great. This is just an example I made up, so your numbers may be different.

    It should be possible to get everything you need onto a panel that would fit in that screen resolution. What exactly would you like to be able to see all the time? Stops and couplers, of course. Aside from stops and couplers, is there anything else that you would need to be able to control without scrolling? If I know what you need/want to be able to see without having to adjust the screen, I can start working on the ODF to make it happen.

    Take care,
    Matt

  5. #5
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    Thanks Matt, this is all clear. However I fail to understand the practical use of this scope and scoped..
    And this is very kind from you to help with a fitting screen, that would be great.

    What I really would appriciate is a screen where alle stops are in including couplers.
    And then the three manuals with pedal, compact, close to each other.
    All the presets, general and close to the divisions are not needed (?)
    Because this 999 setsers can also be programmed with the set, <> and textbox in the left uppercorner.
    Also the GC would be handy.

    As far as I understood the textbox is corresponding with the combinations in the combination setter? I wonder that the combination setter can go up to 999, also the textbox with the buttons up/down, but when I try to enter a value directly in this textbox, the maximum is two digits.

    On my new homemade console I have 20 stops for the Great, 12 stops for the Pedal, 14 stops for yhe Swell and 12 stops for the positive. Plus 6 stops for all couplers. Tried to add a picture but forum says that it exceeds quota. Would it also be possible to remove some stops from the pedal and eg add some to the great? This all have to be done manually in the ODF file?

    Thanks again for your kind help. If this is a very time consuming job, please give me some hints how I can do it by myself. Or where I can find the info to do this. I am familiar with making disposition screens in jOrgan.

    Best regards,
    Dries

  6. #6
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    I think that most people don't use scope and scoped all that often. It can be handy for setting up a combination pistons for reeds on and reeds off or something of the like so that the pistons only affect certain stops.

    Regarding the textbox counter for the combination setter, I can scroll up to the three digit numbers using the up and down arrows, but I can also only enter a two digit number into the box. That might be a bug.

    Yes, you can move stops from one manual to another and you're right, this would all have to be done through the ODF. You'd have to edit the manual section to add/remove the stops there. Then, it might be handy to re-number the stops that you move so that they're easy to identify later. Usually Pedal stops are in the 000 range, bottom keyboard in the 100s, second keyboard in the 200s, etc. You would also want to change the windchest group for the stops that you move so that they are under the same expression as the rest of their new division.

    It doesn't take too long to make the extra panels and I'm happy to help out. I'll work on this a bit and write back when I come up with something. Putting the manuals on the panel may make it a tight fit, but I think it can be done. Just to make sure I understand, you want stops, couplers, manuals, pedals, and general cancel. Is there anything you wanted that I missed?

    Take care,
    Matt

  7. #7
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    Hi Matt,
    Looking forward to the first results. Would be wonderfull when it fits in one screen!
    And yes, that components would be enough, or do you think I forgot something important?
    When your'e interested please look for a picture from my new console.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwsgju3kax...%2047%2056.jpg
    Just finished after a project of 3 years.
    Best regards, Dries

  8. #8
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    That's an impressive console, I can imagine why it took so long to build! It must be a thrill to play!

    I've finished working on the extra panel. I'm including the new ODF with the panel here as an attachment. It would be easiest for you to just use this new ODF. The only thing you'll have to do is make the changes to the tremulants again in this new file.

    If you prefer to use your original ODF, you can copy the modifications to it. You'll need to copy everything from the [Panel001] line in my file to the end of the file and paste this at the end of your ODF. You'll also have to add NumberOfPanels=1 to the organ section at the top of your file.

    You can access the new panel by loading the organ, clicking the "Panel" menu, and choosing "Condensed Panel" which should appear there now. It should contain everything you need to play the instrument, so you can minimize the original window and just use the panel for playing.

    Let me know what you think of if anything needs to be changed. You can also take a look at the modifications I made if you're interested. It's much easier to see how it works when you have an example to look at as opposed to trying to explain in writing.

    Take care,
    Matt
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #9
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    Hi Matt,

    Thanks, that looks good and fast! Indeed it is a tight fit.
    When working with an extra panel extra buttons/stops for setsers are needed.
    Also possible to get this layour as main panel? Or start directly with the extra condensed panel maximized ?

    Something went wrong in the pedal section I guess.
    I have to transpose -15 to get the right pitch.
    Then still not the right key is indicated on the screen.
    And the layout op de pedal in the screen is different from original.

    Thanks agian for your help!
    Best regards, Dries

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wehtam721 View Post
    Regarding knowing which tremulants go to each division, look in the ODF for the manual sections. In the [Manual001], [Manual002], and [Manual003] sections, you should see some lines like this:

    [Manual002]
    Name=Great
    ...
    NumberOfTremulants=1
    Tremulant001=003
    ...

    In this example, tremulant003 would be assigned to Manual002, which in this case would be the great. This is just an example I made up, so your numbers may be different.
    A small correction: Tremulants (like switches) are global objects. They can be associated with any number of manuals - but this only affects, in which divisionals they are stored.

    Tremulants only affect (multiple) windchests and all ranks/pipes on them. So if you want to answer the question, you need to look up the windchest group in for a stop/rank/pipe and then look up, which tremulants affect that windchest.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr3sn View Post
    However I fail to understand the practical use of this scope and scoped..
    Scope limits the general - then in scoped mode it will only touch controls, which were on, while setting the scope.
    An example:

    * Reeds off
    Turn anything off and turn all reeds on. Store it in scope mode. After that turn all reeds off and store it in scoped mode in the same slot (general, setter slot, ...).
    * 8' Reeds on, rest of reeds off
    Turn anything off and turn all reeds on. Store it in scope mode. After that turn 8' reeds on and the rest of the reed off and store it in scoped mode in the same slot (general, setter slot, ...).

    Quote Originally Posted by mr3sn View Post
    As far as I understood the textbox is corresponding with the combinations in the combination setter? I wonder that the combination setter can go up to 999, also the textbox with the buttons up/down, but when I try to enter a value directly in this textbox, the maximum is two digits.
    The text box is limited to 3 digits at most and it must always contain one digit. If you try to enter a 3 digit number (in insert mode), it already contains one digit => you can only enter two.
    Mark the whole content - then you can type 3 digits.
    Last edited by e9925248; Aug-03-2013 at 11:17.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr3sn View Post
    Also possible to get this layour as main panel? Or start directly with the extra condensed panel maximized ?
    If you open the Condensed Panel, and save the organ with that panel open, it will always open when you open the organ. It's probably possible to set up the main panel this way, but it would require changes throughout the whole ODF. Making the changes on a new panel affects only a relatively small portion of the ODF and preserves the original design should you ever want to use it. If you wanted to change the main panel in this way, you'd have to set everything you didn't want to see as Displayed=N, change the values for the screen width and height in the [Organ] section to the values I used in the panel I made (or something similar to those values), and all of the stops would need to have their position adjusted as well. I used exact positions by pixel instead of a drawstop row and column to make it fit on the screen with no borders.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr3sn View Post
    Something went wrong in the pedal section I guess.
    I have to transpose -15 to get the right pitch.
    Sorry about that. I'm including a new version of the ODF which should fix that problem. This was a modification I had made to accommodate the way my pedalboard was built. I forgot to change it back to standard before I sent the ODF to you. Let me know if you find anything that doesn't work about this new ODF.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by e9925248 View Post
    Mark the whole content - then you can type 3 digits.
    I have tried this. I am unable to type three digits into the box regardless of what I try. I have tried highlighting the number in the box and then typing the new number, deleting the number from the box and then typing the new number, setting the number and then typing digits after the number (ie start with 1 in the box, then try to add 23 after the 1.) In all of the above cases I was only able to type two numbers in the box. I'm running rev 1341 on Windows 7.

  14. #14
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    Many thanks again Matt, it's working fine now.
    Including the saved condensed panel in front after start-up.
    I also tried to directly enter 3 digits in the textbox for combinations in many ways, no success at all.

    Best regards,
    Dries

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by e9925248 View Post
    Tremulants only affect (multiple) windchests and all ranks/pipes on them. So if you want to answer the question, you need to look up the windchest group in for a stop/rank/pipe and then look up, which tremulants affect that windchest.
    This sounds logical to me since a tremulant is normaly built in the supply channel to a specific windchest.

    BR, Dries

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