Are there too many universities and students?

[Dorsetmike]

I recall that when working for Plessey (electronics company now part of Siemens) in the 1970/80s it was more or less taken for granted that graduates straight from uni needed on average 5 years before they were effective members of the work force, they may have had a load of knowledge stuffed into them, but absolutely no idea how to apply it. It sounds to me like things are no better today, if anything worse.

Apprenticeships are a far better way of getting useful workers - at any job - not just manual tasks. They learn in a work environment and learn how to fit into a work environment as well as learning their chosen trade. Some jobs could probably benefit from a time at college or uni during or after the apprenticeship. There is still some need for university trained people and probably always will be in teaching and research, but in my opinion there are currently far too many students and far too many universities. I know of graduates working checkouts at Lidl & Tesco (supermarkets) surely a waste of somebodies time and money.

 

[teddy]

This is a hangover from Tony Blair who stated that every child should have the opportunity to go to university. I agree with learning the job from the ground up with maybe day release where it is needed. I have just agreed to take on my business partners son (only because he is my business partners son) who is fully qualified, but does not know his a*** from a hole in the ground when it comes to business sense or work ethics. Going to work 50 weeks of the year and keeping strict time can be a real shook for some of these graduates.
Teachers need intensive University courses but they have to work in schools as part of their training, and then have a year as probationers on a low salary but an awful lot of occupations need more hands on training in a real environment.

teddy.

 

[John Watt]

Canadian children had the right to attend university too, mostly back in the seventies,
when separatiste politicians from Quebec ran the rest of Canada into the ground.
You could also work for ten weeks and quit and collect your salary as unemployment insurance for 52 weeks.
By the time everyone graduated or came back home most of the big businesses and jobs were gone,
either moved to the States or Quebec. That's also when Made in China began to spread.

When machines replace human activities, they create inhumane unemployment.
And as Professor Marshall McCluhan said in "Global Village",
when computers propogate globally then societies of dispossessed wandering poor will be a new global phenomena.
In the disUnited States there are now over 22 million people who aren't citizens performing "menial" labour.

 

[musicteach]

This is my personal opinion, but do remember that I do hold a few degrees from a couple different Universities. I think in the more modern times, people have almost forgotten what hard work is and are relying too much on a higher education to make it in life. Let's face it, unfortunately not all of us our cut out for student-work. And as mentioned, you graduate University and you're crammed full of information. But then you need a little bit of experience to understand how to apply that information. Now don't get me wrong, a higher education will open doors...if you know how to apply it.

 

[JHC]

It depends on what you want to make your career as Mike says you can't beat an apprenticeship for the trades also as John pointed out with modern technology the old types of jobs have disappeared, I remember when automation came into the car factories a machine shop that had 200 machinists reduced to 3 technicians just to keep the machines going. A degree in the arts well that is as much use as a tits on a Bull also too many Lawyers. I could go on but I reckon we all know what is wrong with the system.
I should add that as far as music goes the RCM or a similar dedicated institution is the way to go not a standard "cover all" University.

 

[musicteach]

It depends on what you want to make your career as Mike says you can't beat an apprenticeship for the trades also as John pointed out with modern technology the old types of jobs have disappeared, I remember when automation came into the car factories a machine shop that had 200 machinists reduced to 3 technicians just to keep the machines going. A degree in the arts well that is as much use as a Bull with tits also too many Lawyers. I could go on but I reckon we all know what is wrong with the system.
I should add that as far as music goes the RCM or a similar dedicated institution is the way to go not a standard "cover all" University.

Oh I agree, if you're going to go for music, your best bet is somewhere like the RCM or Julliard or any other number of schools dedicated to the study and advancement of music. Although for me, this comes has a bit of hindsight, as my first degree comes from UMass.

 

[JHC]

A degree in Tattooing, basket making or Aroma therapy is taking things a bit too far IMO.

 

[Krummhorn]

I have two views on the subject ... I do promote the higher learning process and the earning of degrees, but on the other hand also believe that the fancy scrolled piece of paper does not make the "musician" ... the person makes themselves the musician.

It does not matter "where" one goes to learn ... it's how much they apply themselves to use the given information honing their own personal skills and talents in whatever music field they have chosen. I learned to play doing all the physical work - lessons, theory classes, recitals - and was taught by a leading organist in So California at the time.

As for my college education, I have an Associates of Arts degree ... never completed the rest as I quickly learned that the universities in the US were churning out 750,000 music majors with no place to go for work. I changed my "main" field to electronics and went to work ... making music my avocation instead.

Now, in semi-retirement, my avocation has turned into my vocation. I lack the fancy scrolled paper, but have been gainfully employed as a church organist for over 52 years ... and still tickling the ivories [plastic] to others amazement and my amusement.

As to the best known schools ... I think one can get just as good of an education in music studies from lesser known ones ... if the only goal at the end is to say that "I graduated from Julliard", then it's rather pointless. I can state "I've played for Mass at the Vatican in Rome", which is true, btw, but it does not get me any special treatment in my employment possibilities ... just having played at the Vatican does not make me any more or any less of a performer than those who graduated from a lesser known university or a well known one.

My four cents worth anyway ...

Kh ♫

 

[teddy]

Thank goodness they are geting rid of some of the stupid courses which where introduced by the last goverment such as studying soap operas. There were far too many people using Uni as any easy way to avoid work.

teddy