Ten Reasons Gay Marriage is Un-American

[drummergirlamie]

What most EVERYWHERE don't seem to realize is that this has such a great deal to do with the benefits: Health Insurance, Life Insurance, etc. These are two people that have reached a conclusion that they wanna be exclusive to each other (and yes, also just so happen to be of the same sex) for the duration and as well, stemming from their love for one another and quite naturally, want to try and protect each other financially. This looks to be very much love to me in the form of protection. Yu know, the menticidal effect of religion has created a mentallity in the typical pius or deeply religious person that seems to be looking after a God, or source they have never seen much less TRULY know exist, over their neighbor or the people around them. Could you imagine if everyone, especially those so consumed by quotes, doctorines, redacted books and FEAR, actually channeled this energy into helping one another around them? Wow, what a beautiful place, wouldn't you agree? Well let's see, I know what some of you may be thinkin' and I've heard of self-righteousness so what would this be, community righteousness? Please? If I were God I would rain absolute joy upon my creation for acheiving such a beautiful and love-hieghtened level of unity. But you see, religion was created and has been sustained in part to keep cast systems in place, among other agendas. This has been the case since the very beginning so how could we ever expect those who subscribe to such cults to accept one who is sexually aberrant in comparison? And you all that buy into this religion stuff honestly believe we're (or only you as you claim) are worthy of a paradise-like level of demension immediatly following this one? This is the dirtiest, and most malevelant joke goin', Folks. We are far too Ill-advanced to be deserving of anything remotely close. Hey, don't take my word for it, go look yourself in the mirror upon reading this and look yourself in the eye while telling yourself you wouldn't deny another HUMAN a necassary resource of some kind if your politically motivated molestation in text told you it was wrong because their brains are wired differently. I tried to stay clear of this subject because this hits pretty close to home, you realize? I have a few friends and a family member that are gay and one of these individuals is trans-gendered. It just so happens that these are some of the warmest and most kind individuals I've ever met. Collectively they have helped me in ways I can't even begin to count. But my devout neighbors wanna deny them access to much needed benefits because they don't wanna sleep with people of a similar protocol. Wow. Yu know, it must be nice, or quite convenient for yourselves in such cases as this, to blend or gel within the primary body and look around at your massive numbers before looking down at this struggling but fiercly resistant minority? But hey, this is the kind of thing followers do, right? Yu see, another sad part about some of these people is that some of them are gonna get old and actually get to watch death approach them. In this time, after thinkin' about how they've just watched their lives rocket past them, are gonna begin to form their own thoughts for once and conclude they've been despicably selfish. They have not only restricted themselves buy their judgemental practices, but have served to restrict those around them as well. Just to set the record straight that this post is intended to try and engender fresh perspective on the matter thus edulcorate one's approach to the lives around them and their own, I SINCERELY HOPE you are not one of the people who will grow to an old age only to regret a sentiment of such denial and baseless judgement. Thank you kindly for reading.

 

[Robert Newman]

I've just seen this thread.

Laws are the expressed will of society. The best interests of society (as a whole) are and always were the issue on this subject of homosexuality. Not those of the individual. The individual certainly has rights, freedoms, but none are contrary to law. And the rights of an invidual must always be subject to the best interests of society as a whole. Rights are balanced by responsibilities. It IS in the best interests of society and is the most responsible attitude also that we have no homosexual marriages. It is also in the best interests of society that a family unit is built on the union of a man and a woman. That's clearly in the best interests of children also. Such plain and obvious facts settle the issue and they are massively confirmed by history, sacred scripture and the experience of all human existence.

 

[sunwaiter]

i'm tired.

 

[sunwaiter]

but don't eve take no offence, please, even when people feel tired hearing what sounds so absurd to them.

 

[NewMusicPromote]

here is some food for thought.

1. A I am Gay so i can talk about this and be very clear concious about it as well.

2. Only Stuck up Red Neck Bible Bashers dont want gays and lesbians to be married.

3. Gay is Human and Human Nature. Look @ the Roman Empire and other European cultures the gay and lesbian lifestyle is very accepted hell i think there was alot of "old" photos of 2 men in them back in the roman days as well.

4. Gay has been discriminated against since the bible bashers and some political interest groups decided it would be grand to Stick the HIV/AIDS Virus on us like its a gay thing, and also as well child molestation or something (But yet i think every boy in school or @ home who has been molested it was by a family friend, or family in general. (not a gay thing).

5. Once Society pulls there head out of there *** and jump into the 20th century you will see we are not devided by church and state anymore, back then the churches could designate who was "bad" or "evil" and claim them as trash, also i do belive the bible also says Shell Fish, Stoning your Wife and also selling your Daughter was a "okay thing" to do. i think its someplace in liviticous about the Shell Fish, SO if you have them Shrimp Cocktails your doing a "Evil" Sin and need to be burned or stoned to death .

So now we come to the Un-American Part of this Deal.

1. We Pay Taxes (alot of them)

2. We Own Business(s)

3. We Have Children as well (Adopt kids yall leave behind)

4. We are Police Officers, Fire Department Personel, Ambulance Personel, Military Personel (Low Profile), Doctors, Nurses, HairStylists, Clothing Line Creators (half the I love this forum you wear today is prolly from a gay or lesbian person), Painters (art) probably some of the paintings or photos you have on your walls are from a gay or lesbian person as well. Polititions, State Representatives, Singers, Actors, Judges, City Coucil Members, Aldermans and the list goes on and on, so i belive that I love this forum needs to be stopped already since the person who might be saving your life or ass in a national or natural disaster might be a gay or lesbian person.

5. We contribute heavily to activist groups, non-profit agencies and other places to help un-privilaged, homeless, starving and other causes that need donations or attention.

Basically i belive personally it really does not matter if you have Paperwork to being married, i belive if 2 people love each other and are going to be with each other then nothing is really needed, as long as your WILL and stuff is made out to the person you want to leave your assets behind to then you should be fine, unless its a major battle with courts and documents then it could be a issue, as for Benefits i belive every state should allow dual benefits to "whoever" they are married to straight, lesbian, gay it dont matter its just respect.

Also with 2 males or 2 females being married how does that hurt you? You are not living with them or next to them, They are not your roomates it really should not matter. its not effecting you personally. I do belive that parents should be accepting to there kids and young adults IF they turn out to be gay or lesbian or even bi-sexual, most kids and teenagers who are homeless are due to the family not accepting them being alternative lifestyles so they are either kicked out or they run away from home since they are being physically or mentally abused due to them being alternative lifestyles or liking the same sex.

There is ALWAYS going to be gay, lesbian and bisexual people so GET used to it and bitch or wine about something more creative like the WAR or well that 300 Billion Dollar Bailout that taxpayers have to shell out in the long run due to the bank **** up's and people who cannot pay there bills. Ow wait i forgot everyone lives in credit no one has bills.

Think of all the NEW JOB openings there will be IF it was legal in every state for gay people to be legally married, hell more money for the state, (joint taxes), Lawyers (yeah for divorces), Wedding chappels and bling for there marriage, transportation industry (limousine wise) would jack up thru the roof LOL all the guys getting married and renting out stretch limousines. So i dont belive its a big request just to make all marriages level and have paperwork, its really not a big deal if you look at it.

But yes you got the political and church interest groups who have been knocking down that for years by saying OWW wait they will molest your kids and they will give you HIV and its wrong in the bible to lay in the same bed as the same sex. There is alot of things in the bible that people tend to ignore as well since times have changed so this really would not be a big issue to ignore as well.

 

[jawoodruff]

This argument over gay marriage is nothing new. Over the past 1000 years society has struggled with the idea. A few years ago, when the debate in the United States was the strongest, I researched the history of gay marriage and TO MY SURPRISE... I found that the catholic church had in various areas of the world incorporated rites for same sex marriage/civil unions. These rites were largely put to an end in the Victorian era - not surprisingly.
I think that, aside from the historical precedent, the only other thing to really point out is that the levitical laws supposedly against homosexuality (particularly between two men - as the bible and judaic texts are largely moot on Lesbianism) also are against a number of other things that we in the modern era DONT follow - namely among them is the separation from society of women during their menstral periods.

 

[sunwaiter]

thank you jawoodruff and newmusicpromote. sometimes i wish i was really gay just to p**s off obtuse people and (WHY NOT) make them understand.

another less important but always agitated topic is weed. i'm not a real smoker, but i support this cause. lately i've read some articles and books from very different sources and i've learned for example that in the past many countries had it legal. hemp was an important, when not essential part of the textile industry. in some societies growing hemp in your backyard was a socially valid thing to do, and the contrary could even be badly seen. banning hemp was mainly decided because of political motives, changes in the textile industry or needs of the pharmaceutical industry. no one has ever died directly because of hemp. alcohol is not forbidden. everybody knows it kills a huge amount of people regularly, and not only in car crashes. cigarettes are not forbidden. they kill a huge amount of people everyday.

my point is that when people decide that they are right, it's sometimes too late for them, unfortunately. i never decided that being gay is a right or wrong thing. it's natural.

 

[greatcyber]

Oh, really?

I've just seen this thread.

Laws are the expressed will of society. The best interests of society (as a whole) are and always were the issue on this subject of homosexuality. Not those of the individual. The individual certainly has rights, freedoms, but none are contrary to law. And the rights of an invidual must always be subject to the best interests of society as a whole. Rights are balanced by responsibilities. It IS in the best interests of society and is the most responsible attitude also that we have no homosexual marriages. It is also in the best interests of society that a family unit is built on the union of a man and a woman. That's clearly in the best interests of children also. Such plain and obvious facts settle the issue and they are massively confirmed by history, sacred scripture and the experience of all human existence.

So WHAT planet do you live on? I guess you aren't aware of the countries where gay marriage IS legal, such as Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada. Even the country you live in has now legalized "unions" without calling it marriage.

YOU are not society as a whole. In fact, society becomes more accepting every day. You might take note of that.

Let me guess, it's the "sanctity of marriage," isn't it? Have you ever been divorced? Enough said.

Peace, out.

 

[drummergirlamie]

My position and my position only is to allow two people of the same sex to be married to one another if they so desire so as to not only be happy, but protect themselves with insurance coverage as well. No one here at any time is ever gonna get me to support someone like Clay Aiken, who knew he was gay all along but had a child with a woman anyway only to shout it out to the world, "I have a child now. Oh, and by the way, I'm gay!" You should not involve the kids in this and everybody from both sides should know this. As mentioned, I have a friend that was once male and is now female. She once spoke of a thread on another forum that talked of the concept of a uterus transplant and I was appauled.

Children are far too impressionable to be exposed to the result of a gay union. A gay couple could say they would exhaust their efforts in allowing the child to think for themselves but the simple fact is, children learn by example and action speaks louder than words. I have always been a heterosexual girl and I have always been happy with that. However, I can't rule out the possibility things may have turned out differently had I been raised by a gay couple-and how could anyone else? Those opposed to gay marriage need to get over it and come to the realization that these people have been around since day one. They are born into this world daily. Those of you that are gay and wish to be married need to come to the realization that by embracing a gay lifestyle, you have reasonably givin up your right to be a parent. Thank you for reading.

 

[sunwaiter]

it's a point of view. as a "tutor" i took care of children, and i felt like a parent in the absence of their real parents. adoption is something good, when done in checked and legal circumstances. too many children are forsaken, or parentless after wars, accidents, etc. why wouldn't it be a good idea to raise a child when you're gay? to me a human being is a human being, with his/her values, and what we call humanity. si i guess you can give good educatio wether you are "straight" (i hate this word) or "gay". i don't think two musicians systematically make another musician. same thing for gay people.

 

[drummergirlamie]

it's a point of view. as a "tutor" i took care of children, and i felt like a parent in the absence of their real parents. adoption is something good, when done in checked and legal circumstances. too many children are forsaken, or parentless after wars, accidents, etc. why wouldn't it be a good idea to raise a child when you're gay? to me a human being is a human being, with his/her values, and what we call humanity. si i guess you can give good educatio wether you are "straight" (i hate this word) or "gay". i don't think two musicians systematically make another musician. same thing for gay people.

Because the parents are not only the most direct influence on a child's life, they are also the strongest. Example, kid's pick up on their parents speaking habits. How many kids did you go to school with that cussed like a sailor and did so often because he or she one day managed to sneek around and watch a Richard Pryor concert? A similar example could be made about tobacco. It makes me laugh to hear some dingleberry gripe about teen smoking and claim it's the result of some cartoon camel or some BS cowboy who always have cigarettes in their mouths. Kids start smoking because their parents do.

Let me ask you somethin, when you were little, who were the two people in your life that were most always right? Your parents were. This is the case at one point or another in every childs life. Let us fast foward to the eve of puberty, when girls like myself as I'm sure you as well, desperatly needed our Momma's advice/instruction on how to cope with what was happening with our bodies. This is also when I started taking interest in boys and needed that special heart to heart talk with Momma to help learn how to function with them. How could she have guided me properly, beit Momma #1/Momma #2 or a./b. if she were gay and couldn't relate??? I use the 1/2, a/b references to point out how ridiculous this is. And the list goes on and on.

You like me and think masculinity is in the toilet right now? Just wait until we see the result of some of these boys raised by gay parents. It simply is not gonna work. I feel silly tryin' to explain something that is so abundantly obvious. And anyone on here that has read my post should see it clear as day that I'm a very liberal person in areas like this. Some of the best friends I've ever had are gay. They all know where I stand on this and there's only one that post resistance on this specific issue. If a child reaches a reasonable age and feels that he or she is gay let them pursue this WITHOUT ACTING UPON IRRATIONAL THOUGHT. Hell, I just posted about three hours ago on the "intersexed" issue and linked reference to a little TG Girl named, Jazz. And yes you'll see that her parents are very happy together. But this girl has obviously felt this way from the start thus was outside the influence of her parents in this specific facet of her life.

You may find it interesting that the most reasonable or all my friends is, Karen. She's the one that's transgendered. She was also opposed to the idea of a uterus transplant. She realizes that her past gender is still very much her adversity and does her best to deal with such and as well claims to never desire involving someone else so directly. But I'm beginning to see she's quite the rare breed, you realize? There seems to never be enough acceptance in someone to appease those with a situation or adversity like this. And my heart goes out to them, it really does. But where do we meet in the middle and draw a line? Are there any that remain in existance that feel some lines shouldn't be crossed?

One of the most disturbing things for me about this subject is the selfishness involved. You always hear, "I want a baby." You never hear, "I wonder how my child, with my guidance can help benefit this world?" Far too many of these gay couples would want children simply because they feel it's their right, not because they sincerely wanna make a difference in someone's life.
This is gonna be one big rat race to post big numbers in an effort toward equality when all the while putting themselves before the person that matters most in this entire equation: the child.

 

[drummergirlamie]

I've just seen this thread.

Laws are the expressed will of society. The best interests of society (as a whole) are and always were the issue on this subject of homosexuality. Not those of the individual. The individual certainly has rights, freedoms, but none are contrary to law. And the rights of an invidual must always be subject to the best interests of society as a whole. Rights are balanced by responsibilities. It IS in the best interests of society and is the most responsible attitude also that we have no homosexual marriages. It is also in the best interests of society that a family unit is built on the union of a man and a woman. That's clearly in the best interests of children also. Such plain and obvious facts settle the issue and they are massively confirmed by history, sacred scripture and the experience of all human existence.

Please see above post to read my position regarding, "best interest of children" on this issue. Thanks.

 

[sunwaiter]

i don't see what's so obvious.

gay people are most of the time the product of heterosexual couples! why wouldn't the opposite happen? people are people. we're bathing in societies made of multitudes of different persons and cultures.

i understand the mimetism you mentioned. it's true, as a child we tend to reproduce schemes, customs, social behaviours, dressing style, etc. but even if i more than often thought that my parents were right, i never felt like doing everything like they did, especially when i had to choose my sexual orientation. because there is a choice. it is not so systematic.

i don't believe in pure masculinity and pure feminity. as you know we all carry some feminity and masculinity, as we conceive it. hormones, etc. to me hormones are as strong as social schemes, if not stronger. it's also about constructing a personality. so if a parent can let his boy be a gay, why would he prevent him from being heterosexual, since it's in his nature?

 

[sunwaiter]

and i will add that my parents don't have to be especially proud, but they sure are happy for having me. having a baby can lead to this, whatever you said the first time you felt like "having a baby". there is a part of selfishness, but at twenty and more, we can realize a human being is not a new car, but a responsability and a person to come.
wether you're gay or not , "having a baby" means taking care of a person, and raise this person.

i agree some people don't realize it, but let's not be severe with everybody.

 

[greatcyber]

IF you guyz were to do some research, you would find out that the MAJORITY of children raised by gay couples do NOT turn out to be gay. The ONLY important thing is to impart love, caring and a safe environment. You should be thankful that gay people would even have the interest to adopt the unwanted children that straight people spit out without any concern... How can people be so ugly and ignorant in their logic?

 

[drummergirlamie]

IF you guyz were to do some research, you would find out that the MAJORITY of children raised by gay couples do NOT turn out to be gay. The ONLY important thing is to impart love, caring and a safe environment. You should be thankful that gay people would even have the interest to adopt the unwanted children that straight people spit out without any concern... How can people be so ugly and ignorant in their logic?

If you would like to refer to my genuine concern for the child and their well-being as, "ugly and ignorant" be my guest but know that it does nothing but reflect poorly on you.

You just depreciated the value of your post, by the way. Hope your pleased with the result.

 

[Robert Newman]

So WHAT planet do you live on? I guess you aren't aware of the countries where gay marriage IS legal, such as Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada. Even the country you live in has now legalized "unions" without calling it marriage.

YOU are not society as a whole. In fact, society becomes more accepting every day. You might take note of that.

Let me guess, it's the "sanctity of marriage," isn't it? Have you ever been divorced? Enough said.

Peace, out.

As far as I am concerned the non-Christian world can do what it likes and does so. But the moment such things are done with the sanction of the Christian church that's when I (and most others) strongly disagree.

 

[drummergirlamie]

I'm probably fishin' in the bathtub on this one, but do you have a link/reference/some numbers of some kind to support this claim of yours, greatcyber?

 

[Robert Newman]

If a child was to be brought up by wolves it would not become a wolf. Nor does a child brought up in a homosexual home become homosexual. Nobody says otherwise. But the wisest and best way for a child and for society is that children should be brought up in the union between a man and a woman. A child deserves this. Plain and simple. Ask anyone who has no axe to grind on this issue.

 

[jawoodruff]

To be honest, I honestly think that the mention of children being brought up under gay parents should not be mentioned - because even if you have research (actual empirically documented research) the passions of the 'anti-homosexual union' camp would still win. End of story.

And last I checked, Spain is a very religious country - and has been so over the past few hundred years.

As for the reasoning behind the Christian view (aside from some ambiguous biblical passages):

When a man marries and is about to offer himself to men in womanly fashion [quum vir nubit in feminam viris porrecturam], what does he wish, when sex has lost all its significance; when the crime is one which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed to another form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise, the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons who are now, or who hereafter may be, guilty may be subjected to exquisite punishment. (Theodosian Code 9.8.3)