hi friends

[dulipsingh]

hi friends im new from india anybody want to share?

[Thomas Dressler]

Hi--it would be fascinating to know about pipe organs in India! Could you tell us about organs in your country?

[Drinklicafix]

Hello DulipSingh,
I'm from India too, but I have not heard an organ live yet. I would also like to hear more about organs in India. The only results you get after googling organs in india are organ transplantations.
According to a newspaper article I read on the web, there are only 60+ organs in India; maybe 2-3(?) in Bangalore, many in Hyderabad-Secunderabad, Madras, Bombay and probably in some other cities also. I hope to hear one the next time I visit any of these cities.
Which city are you from?
Cheers,
Akash

[_music_4_ever_]

I'm new here too!

Are you an organist?

[Thomas Dressler]

To our two Indian friends, I'm curious what got you interested in pipe organs if there are so few in India. . .did you see them on TV, or hear recordings of them?

[Drinklicafix]

I first got interested in pipe organs when I heard some of the Preludes, Fugues and Chorales of J. S. Bach on a CD recording. Earlier I used to listen mainly to chamber music and cantatas. Though I still love other kinds of music, organ is now my favourite.
I would love to see organ concerts on TV but as far as I know there are no music channels on Indian cable except for MTV etc...
Internet radio like PipeDreams is not very economical because the broadband ISPs charge per MB. We'll have to wait for things to get cheaper here.
Cheers,
Akash

[Drinklicafix]

Hello Thomas Dressler,
These are from Indian newspaper articles. Unfortunately they don't specify disposition and current condition. You'll notice that India is simply not the place for organs . One of the problems facing archaeological sites and art treasures in India is this lack of a sense of heritage that makes restoration and conservation a difficult task.

The Hindu : Tamil Nadu / Chennai News : Century-old church pipe organ restored and rededicated

The Hindu : Andhra Pradesh / Hyderabad News : Passionate about the pipe organ

New notes from the old pipe at St Mark’s - Deccan Herald - Internet Edition

The Hindu : Music, their first love

The Hindu : Historic organ

[Thomas Dressler]

Hiya Akash,

Very interesting articles. I kind of assumed there were not many organs in India, but it's nice to see there are some! I guess I could see where conservation might be difficult, but perhaps on the other hand, if people could be convinced of their value since they are so rare, perhaps they'd take them more seriously.

Since I have some interest in listening to music of other cultures, I have some curiosity about how people accustomed to different music than our western classical music react to what we do here.

I am one who feels strongly that music is NOT a universal language, but that we are enriched by coming to an understanding of others' music. Some people have an affinity for and easier time relating to different kinds of music (as you seem to have for western organ music!)

Thanks for your interesting post!

Tom Dressler

[Drinklicafix]

Hullo Tom Dressler,
Convincing people is difficult for traditional Indian art, let alone something that is perceived as "Christian" & "British".
In the west, who funds such restorations...the church, government or something like a national trust??

I agree with you in that music is not a universal language. I can't help you here because I'm too accustomed to western classical to be able to tell you accurately how an Indian would react to western music. Our friend dulipsingh seems to be asleep, he might have been able to help.
What is your reaction to Indian classical music(Hindustani & Karnatic)? Do you find it hard to appreciate?
Cheers!
Akash

[Thomas Dressler]

Hi Akash,

It seems everywhere it's difficult to get people to relate to their traditions. I have some friends from Indonesia who are completely uninterested in their native music, as interesting as it is to many of us. (I am somewhat familiar with Indonesian music.) I have to admit, however, to not knowing a lot about Indian music, though once I spent a very interesting afternoon talking with a young man who was well versed in it. It is different enough from our ways of making music to be confusing (at least the explanations confused me,) and I can see it would take time and study to really appreciate it. I will say that when he played for me, I found the effects hypnotic and very interesting. Another time I was staying in a motel and the TV had a channel with, believe it or not, Indian music videos. I was completely fascinated! This was more popular music, but I found the rhythms very interesting, and enjoyed the singing. It reminds me of a style of Indonesian pop music called Dangdut.

Oh yes, concerning funding of organ restorations. . .it is difficult to get government funding for organ work here, because of the separation of church and state. I do believe there might be limited funding if the church itself is declared a National Historic Landmark, and it can be shown that the organ itself has historic value to the country aside from its use in church. So in the vast majority of cases, organs are built, maintained, and restored through raising private funds. Twice I've been involved in rebuilds/restorations, and the money had to be raised through private donations. There may be other ways that I'm not aware of.

I would guess that things would be different in India. I believe (and our European friends can answer this more clearly) that in some European countries, organs are maintained through government funding, at least that's what I've heard.

Tom Dressler

[Drinklicafix]

Hi Tom Dressler,
Thanks for the info on funding.
I don't know too much about Indian classical. Indian music, especially north Indian Hindustani music can be quite hypnotic and sometimes I fall asleep listening to it. In western classical there is usually an "outward" movement that "lifts" you "up into space" but in Indian music there is a tendency to an "inward" movement that takes you down into your own "space". Of course, I'm referring to Indian classical here, Indian pop is anything but hypnotic.
If you would like a few mp3 samples I can mail them to you.
Akash

[Krummhorn]

Hi Akash ...

I enjoyed reading the articles ... one mentioned an organ of about 10 ranks. Are the other organs of similar size?
How are the tunings handled - I mean has someone in India been trained on how to accomplish this task, or must someone come from elsewhere to do the tuning?

[Drinklicafix]

Hi Krummhorn,
I'm sorry, I have absolutely no information on the size and disposition of these instruments. I have searched the Web for information but everyone is interested in the people involved but not the organs themselves.
I don't know about other newspapers but Indian newspapers love to just say "this person said this, that person said that...blablabla" They don't write on the event or object itself.
I have a little question: the article you were referring to mentions an organ with 10 ranks and 12 registers...how is it possible to make 12 stops out of only 10 ranks?

It looks like the tuning is not done professionally; one of the reasons the organs are in such a bad state :-(
The Hindu : Metro Plus Chennai / Music : Organ doctor
Cheers,
Akash

[Thomas Dressler]

There is a technique which allows a rank of pipes to play at more than one pitch. For instance, a flute could be made to play at both 8' and 4' by "wiring" it up in the action. You do need an extension of 12 pipes to make this work.

The desirability of doing this, however, can ignite a firestorm in organ circles, so beware! It allows a builder to give an instrument more versatility for less money, however it creates problems when you play notes that are an octave apart simultaneously (when you have both stops pulled) and it does create ensemble problems because for a really nice ensemble, stops of similar color but different pitches are often scaled and voiced differently from one another. The higher pitched stop often comes out sounding like the scaling is too large.

This technique (sometimes called "borrowing" or "extension") is more successful for pedal stops, and used carefully can be hardly noticeable.

The worst cases are organs I knew as a teenager which had 4 ranks and 15 stops. Wretched instruments!

[Drinklicafix]

Hullo Tom Dressler,
Good, now I've understood what extension ranks do...It is really nice to know more about the organ.
Cheers & thanks a lot,
AKash