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Thread: The notes Beethoven wrote are here, but is this classical music?

  1. #1
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    The notes Beethoven wrote are here, but is this classical music?

    Oh, how I wish I could embed a video,
    especially since I'm starting a new thread without one.

    Here's a link to a young woman playing Beethoven with an electric guitar,
    set with what I'd say is medium distortion, no feedback.
    This piece has been described as Beethovens' attempt at creating a new music form,
    or writing the most complex piece he could imagine.
    I'm not that familiar with it, but I'm not hearing one note gone wrong.
    Electricity and electric guitars and amplifiers weren't available back then,
    but is using new instrumentation over-riding the classic aspect of this composition?
    Is the fact that one electric guitar can be louder than an entire symphony relevant?
    Is the fact that I'm thinking Mozart and Wagner would jump all over this relevant?
    And would Nicolo Paganini... uh... bow down to this technology?

    I play riffs where the notes are so spaced out I'm using my index finger and little finger, covering four frets,
    but I never got into tapping that much because I stand up and move and dance around.
    That's not a description of any limitation of mine, or an excuse,
    it's just how I like to be when I'm playing onstage with a band.
    Hey! If I started to sit down now everyone would be cool with it,
    thinking he's an old man and acting classical works as a new stage presence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6rBK0BqL2w

  2. #2
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    I'd like to add that I've always read that on average a violin player,
    who is considered a virtuoso, reaches that level at sixty to sixty-five years.
    Can you consider this young woman a virtuoso?

    I grew up hearing that if you can play like Jimi Hendrix, you can play anything.
    If you can play this Beethoven piece, can you play everything?
    fretting fingers want to know...

  3. #3
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Here's another example of "classical music", this time Bach, being played with modern instruments.
    Even with the clothing of the day, is this classical music, and what would Bach say?
    I'm pretty sure Mozart and Handel would get into it, even if the wigs aren't coloured.


  4. #4
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Now that I know how to embed,
    and in case you don't want to leave this domain,
    here's the video I first mention in this thread.
    Now, if she could also be singing and get up and dance around I'd have some competition.

    Last edited by John Watt; Oct-20-2018 at 04:48.

  5. #5
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    If I'm seeing quartets of female fashion models who can dance while they play classical music,
    I should have known that sooner or later, in this live performance deficient new millennium,
    that lead guitarists would gang up to occupy some classical music stage time.

    I heard that during this performance there was a rumour that Frederik Magle was backstage,
    where he was seen trying to play a left-handed guitar upside-down, with the bass strings on the bottom.



  6. #6
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Seeing that my description of a potential Frederik Magle onstage appearance,
    as a lead guitarist, has been deleted by admin, and that's okay,
    I had to find a substitute to further demonstrate lead guitarists playing with orchestras in concert halls.
    Is this a rock band hiring an orchestral back-up to further their musical reputations,
    or are they trying to create new product with the same old riffs... hmmm... even if they're not written out.
    Is this an orchestra hiring a rock band to add authentic tones and visual flair?

    Is the sight of a Marshall amplifier onstage with an orchestra unsettling, even if it's not a full stack?
    Is a rock bassist standing around wishing he was playing guitar appropriate, at least for an orchestra?
    okay... okay... everyone has his part to play.
    I was left wondering why the conductor had on a black t-shirt, definitely not a t-shirt from the rock band,
    and ultimately, does this satisfy the symphony audience or the rock crowd?

    And as in my deleted narrative from above, now this refrain,
    when will orchestras playing rock music have their first mosh pit,
    and how long will it take for a conductor to stage dive and crowd surf?
    I betcha it's a bassoonist who grabs the guitar from the rock players hands and smashes it onstage,
    unless a fourth chair viola gets it and starts it on fire first.



  7. #7
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Now that my initial reaction to this video is over, packed up with my equipment and gone in the van,
    I've got some stadium staff talk to share. They're the ones who usually know what happening more than the band,
    just like the waitresses and bartenders in the bars, and clubs.
    You can't hear the floor tom for the rock drummer. There's no hard rock beat.
    The tympani get to add accents, like they always do.
    What is that big drum sitting back there on a slant, looking like a huge marching band bass drum?
    The guy with the mallet is swinging it with the beat, and he starts off bopping with it,
    but he's not hitting the drum. When he does it's like one hit at the end of a section, and not at the start.
    That's the first thing that should change to make this a rockin' performance.
    If the guy with the slanted drum started hitting it to accent the rock drummers bass tom,
    that would add the missing element and give the overall sound a big push.
    Better than that, as a symphonic upgrade, it looks big enough to sound like a Japanese kabuki drum,
    and that kid should be hammering on it, adding a more global sound to the rhythm,
    actually, giving it a rhythm. That's when the tympani can pound out some percussion.

    I betcha the rock band would get off on it and start doing that themselves.
    Rock bands went through a big gong thing, hanging behind the drummer.
    Bar-bands here in Ontario had gongs as big as six feet in diameter,
    and the drummer would get up to hammer on them maybe once a night.
    Some drummers would be playing and reach up behind them to hit it with a stick,
    but while it looked good you never really heard it.
    A lot of drummers said they didn't want to hit it with their stick while they played,
    because it would start to chip up the decorative art-work, making it worth less as a trade-in.
    Gongs got banged more after the band was over, fans and groupies wanting to take a hit.
    Hey! At one time it took Neal Peart a half acre of percussion just to play a tom roll.
    Chicago started that whole take a percussion break in the middle of a song,
    lots of rock bands carrying congas around just for that, and they looked good onstage,
    even if the rockers didn't have any r'n'b rhythms or play Sly and the Family Stone songs.
    Even Jimi Hendrix had congas at Woodstock. So did Santana.
    Pumping up a modern rock band with Japanese kabuki drums could be the next big thing,
    until drummers realize that four foot diameter Inuit drums made with whale scrotum,
    have a deeper tone and a more sociable affect on their listeners.
    This is already happening here in the Niagara Peninsula.
    I'm happy to say the marine mammals at Marineland are getting into the music the park plays,
    more than ever before, and their trainers are surprised to see them add something finny to their stage routine.
    No-one could imagine them taking a little hip-hop and adding some fin flop.

    To be hard rock symphony historic here, I think it was Deep Purple who first recorded with a symphony orchestra.
    When that came out, a lot of other players were telling me about it,
    not only because I was at a Deep Purple rehearsal in Toronto, in between a concert in Montreal,
    and a six-nighter in a bar in Buffalo, I sang and played a lot of Deep Purple songs.
    Back then, I said that's not a rock band experience, playing in a concert hall,
    and a symphony isn't a rock band, doesn't sound like one, can't act like one, and isn't as loud.
    Deep Purple would also have to play parts exactly as rehearsed with the symphony,
    and lead guitarists play leads the way they want to... never the same way twice.
    Who could expect a rock drummer to even remember all the parts as rehearsed?
    That never happens. Okay, unless you're Neal Peart. He can play in his sleep. That's what keeps him famous.
    I never listened to the Deep Purple with the symphony album.
    Just for you, Magle.dk members and unlogged-in viewers, here we go.

    I just hafta add. Look at what a symphonic production has to do with a rock drummer.
    They've got him enclosed in plastic or glass to isolate him.
    Can the guitarist and bassist, or lead singer, go over there to talk with him?
    Can the other musicians climb up and jump off the drum riser?
    Is the drummer allowed to use his magic carpet to set up his drums?
    Can he throw sticks out to the audience, a basic rock band drummer thing?
    I didn't even see a restless stripper who only dances during the day,
    get up with the drummer and bang along for a while, or rub herself on the gong.

    Is this what musical civilization is coming to,
    symphonies adding a wild and unpredictable element of amplified sound,
    to their carefully written and rehearsed acoustic instrument performances?
    Are rock band musicians going to start learning to actually read and write music?
    Is the world going to realize that a left-handed person invented stringed instruments,
    and everyone is playing guitars upside-down? I hope so.
    That's all I'm waiting for. Everyone will have to see that John Watt was there all along.
    However, as you can see I know the rock band experience, and saw the first Experience.
    I know what will happen.
    The stage will be set, all the musicians, both symphonic and electric-symphonic,
    will be there. I'll be standing backstage with the worlds' first semi-solid-body guitar,
    just waiting, being as happy as I can be. A bassoonist might even ask me out for a date,
    saying she could take me to her home and introduce me to her parents,
    and show me her rehearsal instrument.
    But then, Frederik Magle could appear, making the backstage crowd grow silent and watch,
    as he comes up to me, asking if he could play my guitar. I could only be flustered,
    and knowing how well-rehearsed he would be, I could only say yes, Master Magle.
    That would be worth starting a new forum here, if only I could.

    Admin it, that's what the forums here need, a new one. Symphonic-Electric.
    The musicians, the performances, the instruments, it's all out there,
    and for me, it would be wonderful if it was in here.
    I must be getting inspired, I'm free-fonting all over the place.
    That would also give me more motivation to finish my first semi-solid-body guitar,
    my symphonic-electric instrument. Four octaves on an ebony fingerboard.
    I'm still trying to imagine everything I can play and the sounds it can make.
    A world-wide precedent for Magle.dk forums. I loved typing that.

    It would be an honour, as an offer, and a new millennium offering.
    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-14-2018 at 05:31.

  8. #8
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    If I can be wondering if an acoustic classical piece being played on an electric instrument is still classical,
    I can also wonder if playing heavy metal on a baroque instrument is still heavy metal.


  9. #9
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
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    Head banging trash, is what I call it!

  10. #10
    Commodore con Forza
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    Quote Originally Posted by elderpiano View Post
    Head banging trash, is what I call it!
    - Post of the week!
    Carrying a torch for Classical Music...

  11. #11
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Not only is there some head banging going on,
    there's that double kick bass drum bombast happening.
    At least he has a humorous moment with his girlfriend at the end.

    I'm wondering how much this theorbo cost.

    I'm also wondering what the purpose is of Ella Becks' reply, saying "Post of the week!".
    Ella Beck always has a video or photo with her replies, and usually makes comments about herself.
    Why is this eight word reply a "Post of the week!" when it's not even music she likes?
    However, or whatever, it is good to see some replies,
    even if they're not the kind that would boost membership here.

  12. #12
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    John , Ella most probably meant that she agreed with my comment. And as far as attracting members to the forum, your video is hardly inspirational to serious classical music listeners.
    I am a straight talker, you post something, you want opinions, so you have to take the rough with the smooth.
    It's a bit like writers, musicians , artists, even politicians, they all come under some criticism , nothing wrong with that , if you are in the limelight, you have to be prepared to come under scrutiny by the media, good or bad or indifferent. It's life.
    Last edited by elderpiano; Feb-25-2019 at 08:15.

  13. #13
    Commodore con Forza
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    Yes, I was simply amused by elderpiano's forthright reaction - people on Talk Classical regularly call posts that have made them laugh 'post of the week' or whatever, so I was just posting in that tradition.

    Not that I particularly cared for the music - but if I had commented on it (unlikely), I wouldn't have been so delightfully blunt as elderpiano.

    As for putting people off - I honestly don't think so. I think a bit of banter and joshing is very attractive and it is one of the reasons why I and many other posters have been members of Talk Classical for so long, as well as for the excellent discussion of classical music.

    The trouble is, there simply aren't enough members of MIMF posting at this present time either to carry on a conversation about music, or to indulge in a bit of repartee and friendly jokes.

    Still, the only choice is to keep on posting here, or not to, and one can only hope that MIMF survives long enough to attract a community again.
    Last edited by Ella Beck; Feb-26-2019 at 01:10.
    Carrying a torch for Classical Music...

  14. #14
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    I am an organist and viola,string bass..so this instrument not on my list except some acoustic guitar work.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

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