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Thread: This is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".

  1. #1
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    This is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".

    Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and rock band fans everywhere.

    This is a cut and paste of some comments I made at the end of a reply,
    being inspired by seeing an "electric guitar orchestra", and rock bands playing with symphonies.
    I see this new genre of musical performance as being worthy of a new forum here.
    Here are my comments, and I hope you agree.
    Please excuse my personal content. I could edit it out,
    because without knowing about the North American and global impact my semi-solid-body has made,
    I might seem a little too fullofmeesimo without any accompaniment.

    Is this what musical civilization is coming to,
    symphonies adding a wild and unpredictable element of amplified sound,
    to their carefully written and rehearsed acoustic instrument performances?
    Are rock band musicians going to start learning to actually read and write music?
    Is the world going to realize that a left-handed person invented stringed instruments,
    and everyone is playing guitars upside-down? I hope so.
    That's all I'm waiting for. Everyone will have to see that John Watt was there all along.
    However, as you can see I know the rock band experience, and saw the first Experience.
    I know what will happen.
    The stage will be set, all the musicians, both symphonic and electric-symphonic,
    will be there. I'll be standing backstage with the worlds' first semi-solid-body guitar,
    just waiting, being as happy as I can be. A bassoonist might even ask me out for a date,
    saying she could take me to her home and introduce me to her parents,
    and show me her rehearsal instrument.
    But then, Frederik Magle could appear, making the backstage crowd grow silent and watch,
    as he comes up to me, asking if he could play my guitar. I could only be flustered,
    and knowing how well-rehearsed he would be, I could only say yes, Master Magle.
    That would be worth starting a new forum here, if only I could.

    Admin it, that's what the forums here need, a new one. Symphonic-Electric.
    The musicians, the performances, the instruments, it's all out there,
    and for me, it would be wonderful if it was in here.
    I must be getting inspired, I'm free-fonting all over the place.
    That would also give me more motivation to finish my first semi-solid-body guitar,
    my symphonic-electric instrument. Four octaves on an ebony fingerboard.
    I'm still trying to imagine everything I can play and the sounds it can make.
    A world-wide precedent for Magle.dk forums. I loved typing that.

    It would be an honour and offer, as a new millennium offering.

  2. #2
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    This must be a good one. The apparition of Nicolo Paganini just appeared before me,
    reaching around my arms, trying to get his fingers on my fingerboard.
    And no, I wasn't playing "Running with the Devil". I don't do that.
    Wait wait! Now Jimi is here, phasing in from wherever he phased out to...
    and he's just sitting there, grooving away, looking real happy... tossing me his pick...
    oh... oh... his Strat is glowing...
    and all the spirits of rock stars who passed away too soon are stacking up behind him...
    and some field Marshalls are there on stand-by... it's a heavenly Woodstock...
    no... no... now they look like some old non-stereo stoned-Henge.
    Where's the concert seating?


    This is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-john-watt6-jpgThis is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-5-jpgThis is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-6-jpgThis is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-9-jpgThis is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-11-jpgThis is a request for a new forum for Magle.dk, "Symphonic-Electric".-17-jpg

  3. #3
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    What we are seeing here on YouTube, as far as rock star guitars being used to play classical music,
    is another evolution of music and the human mind. This is aided and abetted by contemporary technology.
    This is the main thrust of this thread, what music is in your mind that you can play without sheet music.
    Classical music, in terms of symphonies and orchestras, was all about composers writing compositions.
    Classical musicians, in terms of playing music, could either just read music or read music and play spontaneously.
    Learning a composition by using sheet music and playing it often enough to play from memory is another category.

    This human evolution of electric music created more divisions in families than discussions about politics or religion.
    Young people liking rock or psychedelic music angered parents and older people because it was played very loud.
    A complicated composition involving the sounds of many instruments could absorb your attention played quietly,
    but one guitarist, who represented the total output of chordal and solo, had to play loud to fill your attention.
    As far as rock star guitar trios, guitar bass and drums, that's just three musicians competing for your attention.
    That is about the volume, and disputes about volume, being too loud, are still there for any music in public.

    The musicians who were creating a loud volume that displaced the need for many musicians,
    began to evolve their own musical language, as playing from memory needed to create a musical community.
    The basic three chords, called 1, 5 and 7, are names related to the fret number on the neck of a fretted instrument.
    Those basic three chords covered much of blues and country as played on acoustic and primitive electric instruments.
    I'm sure you know what I mean when I say Chuck Berry rock and roll became a standard for rock'n'roll bands.
    Even the Beatles were using Chuck Berry riffs and vocal back-up guitar work with their first albums.
    Again, this is music that was played from memory, written between musicians, without any sheet music.
    Arguments about how you can call yourself a musician if you can't read music were ordinary.

    The evolution of the human musical mind is demonstrated by rock star guitars being used to play classical music.
    There are many YouTube videos of an electric guitarist playing a Beethoven composition without using sheet music.
    Contemporary musicians have grown up hearing so much classical music as soundtracks for everything,
    from movies to TV shows and advertisements, our minds have developed a sense for it as older musicians did with three chords.
    It can be said that progressive rock guitarists developed solo abilities that paralleled virtuoso violinists and jazz musicians.
    While progressive musicians playing solos approximated that, in general, the overall style of those bands remained hard rock.

    Seeing many lead guitarists onstage as an orchestra, playing the music of a symphony composer,
    can be seen as legitimate music, but they're not carrying the bass and drums of rock or pop music with them.
    Not yet.
    I'm going to use links here, so if you want to watch a YouTube video you can access similar videos.

    "Sinfonity" is promoting itself as the first electric guitar orchestra. Jimi Hendrix talked about a 16 or 18 piece rock orchestra,
    back in 1969. He was waiting out a record contract so he could begin anew as "Electric Church", with this big band.
    For Jimi, that was about having other players to recreate all the overdubs on his albums,
    so he could play out live and sound like his recordings.
    Don't forget, it was having too much studio orchestration the made the Beatles break up, unable to play their songs onstage.
    The technology with synthesizers or having electric pickups on acoustic instruments wasn't there.

    Here is a 1:57 video of Sinfonity, an introduction to their concept of a lead guitar orchestra.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u931euMQZ_w

    This is a teenage girl playing the third movement from Beethovens' Sonata in C# minor.
    I just picked the first video I saw on the "recommended videos" found on YouTubes' home page.
    It's probably there because I've listened to it a couple of times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6rBK0BqL2w

    In a non-sexist way, showing a young girl playing such music demonstrates a new global mind.
    Rock bands, especially those strutting players of bombast and drug-induced musical euphoria,
    "the thunder of the gods", were seen as being the territory of teens and men, all that male swagger.
    Jimmy Page was seen as the guitar god, being described as the best guitarist on earth.
    His band, Led Zeppelin, carry the classic rock star gods banner more than any other band.
    Here's something nobody could have predicted when the original song came out,
    not just because it's another young girl playing one of his most complicated songs,
    but the fact she's got the same kind of guitar and gets the same sounds was rare back then.
    Being able to sound like the album, when having a new sound or original electronic device,
    was a big part of what a corporate production was in the studio, during British Invasion times.
    Having the military provide electronic devices to rock bands,
    from the C.I.A. giving Jimi Hendrix the second Magnavox twelve-track recorder that was manufactured,
    to English military giving Pink Floyd the first "computer" generated effects,
    with the Beatles getting the first machine that let you speed up and slow down tapes,
    without changing pitch.
    Imagine doing the drugs of your choice, and then speeding and slowing your recordings,
    until you think it sounds better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dMrE9pyupQ

    That's not part of what a lead guitarist has to do to play a classical composition properly.
    It's also an important part of a new global, musical mind. Not having to do drugs or be drunk.
    There are many teenage musicians playing classical music with rock star instruments on YouTube,
    and it's obvious it took hard work to figure out the parts themselves, and play them without error.

    I really don't want this thread to develop as a list of members saying this is my favorite,
    or look at this half-naked woman playing Bach... or these seven year old Chinese girls playing Listz,
    no, I'd like to know what is in your mind, what you can play without having to read,
    or use sheet music to learn the notes, where you are, how it feels, what it took for you.
    You can't rehearse new music or font as it comes from your heart.

    This topic is very specific, but I know it's part of a new global mind-set, with YouTube as the venue.
    This music video is about that, people of different nations, cultures, and music, beginning to blend together.
    It's call a "New Way Forward", and that's what I hope you submit, your vision of a new way forward,
    for you, for me, and for every other musician you would like to see becoming famous as a new millennium artist.

    What can we see next? An orchestra playing rock music where the conductor crowd surfs?
    A classical music mosh pit? An orchestra playing disco songs where there's a dance floor?
    A symphony playing stoner music where there is a legal use of marijuana?
    There are so many rock bands and so much classical music, with so many instruments for all of them,
    I really see a need for a new forum to share ideas and personal stories about this new coming of age.
    Would you pay to see a convincing hologram of Beethoven conducting any kind of orchestra?
    If an orchestra of lead guitarists dressed in costume, arranging themselves onstage as a classical orchestra,
    with a conductor dressed as Mozart, for me, wearing a pink wig, is that a viable commercial production?
    Instead of me continuing to use my imagination, I'm sure your musical interests can be described,
    within the concepts of "symphonic-electric" and "a new way forward".

    The Irish Punjabi Party (New Way Forward) 3:57

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0z67CFm6Bs

    When I bought my 1964 Stratocaster in 1970,
    I was sitting in my bedroom jamming along with McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones, Nicolo Paganini and Vladamir Ashkenazy,
    to name some of my favorite musicians, some I bought, some I borrowed from the public library.
    When I started taking my guitar out to Saturday matinees, getting up onstage to jam with local players and the band,
    all the other musicians were surprised at my ability and would come over to our table to talk with me.
    This opened musical doors that led to me moving to Toronto to associate with some of the biggest bands,
    and repairmen and roadies who became manufacturers of musical equipment, within six months.
    Perhaps my greatest accomplishment was having a bassoonist for the Ottawa Symphony and Ottawa Symphony Orchestra,
    start to date me, letting me visit her parents house to be there as she rehearsed,
    because she thought I was as good as a violin virtuoso. She helped me stay strong with my concept of being symphonic-electric.
    If you knew how I felt, seeing Stratocasters and Les Pauls, when I put a '57 Les Paul humbucker on my Strat right away,
    being used to play such intelligent,expressive music, yeah, if you knew how I felt... you would reply right away.
    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-15-2018 at 14:19.

  4. #4
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    I have to admit, after watching all these YouTube videos for so long,
    I'm seeing so many megalodons and megaliths I want to play some megariffs.
    Any takers?

  5. #5
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    I don't care if this gets a lot of views, I'm hoping for some member interaction.
    If I have to add more about musical evolution in my life, it's about Chuck Berry style rock and roll.
    You know that two-string back-up like John B. Goode, Blue Suede Shoes, also big in country music and blues?
    That is very basic and easy to do, and working other notes into it when you're down in E,
    is a real boogie, southern, swamp or bluegrass thing to do. I know that.
    But the way I play, with the bass strings on the bottom, always having my all the strings under my hand,
    other guitarists would ask to see me play that two string rhythm, thinking I couldn't do it.
    When I was on stage, other guitarists would come up and ask if I was finger-picking or using a pick,
    saying it sounded like that but they couldn't tell.
    I said the only thing that made it more complicated for me, as upside-down and being left-handed,
    was knowing which way to start picking to play a song, starting up or down.
    That really didn't make a difference, most of the time,
    but it was nice to share some doubt or weakness so other guitarists didn't feel so left out.

    That's one of the few sayings in English language that isn't about using the word right from right-handers,
    because that's true, if you are left-handed you are basically left out.
    In terms of musical evolution, "The Thrill is Gone" was big as a blues tune because it was in a minor key,
    and for rock, hearing Santana playing in minor keys was a new thing for most rockers.
    1, 5 and 7 chords, and C, Am, F and G, those chords were the basis for most pop songs in the fifties.
    When I heard that big hip-hop hit that sampled the piano parts from "All Night Long",
    something it seemed everybody could play one of the parts for in the sixties,
    it really showed me how times have changed even if the notes haven't.

  6. #6
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Here's a human musical mind thing, a song a lot of people used to play on the piano,
    and for most, it was the only thing they could play.
    You can see here how these two begin with a variation, jazzing it up a little,
    before they get into the basic bass part and melody, and then jazz it up again.
    What people used to concentrate on with their fingers is now something that gets to be foot work.
    I'm tempted to talk about the easy songs that rock bands used to jam on for matinees,
    Season of the Witch, Feelin' All Right, Knockin' on Heavens' Door, as more shared musical mind-sets,
    but that's a lot further down the road.

    This video is 1:27

    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-16-2018 at 15:47.

  7. #7
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Here it is, late Sunday evening, without seeing anyone else posting on this thread.
    I'll keep it going.
    Here's a late sixties video that illustrates an electric band that's in between rock and roll and modern songwriting.
    Musically, this isn't Jimi Hendrix, King Crimson, Genesis, Santana, or other bands with far more extensive musicianship.
    But as you can see, when the whole world wants to sing along with your songs, you can't go wrong,
    unless you do it on purpose to yourself. 29:40


    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-17-2018 at 04:18. Reason: linked instead of embedding

  8. #8
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Talking about the evolution of the musical mind also involves the evolution of musical instruments.
    Here we have an acoustic guitarist 2017 finger-picker of the year, playing an "acoustic guitar".
    This video demonstrates how acoustic guitarists are acknowledging what electric guitarists have always known,
    it's more fun to stand up and be able to walk around onstage, or move around or dance while you play.
    And just when you're thinking it might look like an acoustic guitar but she's plugged into an amplifier,
    you see her pedal board on the floor and see her changing the electronics for her guitar.
    When she starts tapping... oh yeah... and you know she's looking around that store at all the electrics...
    I'd be thinking of selling off all my stocks that are invested in acoustic guitar manufacturers. 5:43


    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-17-2018 at 04:43.

  9. #9
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    I just hafta add, she's got the sound-hole covered or blocked off.
    A lot of acoustic guitarists with pickups do that so they're not feeding back so easily.
    That makes an acoustic guitar an exterior acoustic instrument that is hollow inside.
    That's an acoustic-solid guitar.
    Maybe that's the next evolution for acoustic guitars, being made without a sound-hole.

  10. #10
    Commodore con Forza
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    I can't see a request for a new forum getting very far when there are so few posters now on MIMF, and the individual forums on this site don't get much input at all, and usually less than 20 readers, some of which may be bots.

    It doesn't even look as if Mr Magle or Krummhorn come here very often.

    I am also puzzled as to why you've put a thread with the same title in the Classical Music Forum on MIMF and seemed to be copying your posts over. a couple of days ago.

    Surely if you want a new forum for a specific topic, it's best to show that you respect the existing Forum Titles?
    Last edited by Ella Beck; Dec-17-2018 at 11:57.
    Carrying a torch for Classical Music...

  11. #11
    Commodore con Forza
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    Personally, I am very grateful to Mr Magle for financing Talk Classical and MIMF and can't see why he should be expected to do any more, particularly when there is so small a membership and potential audience.
    Last edited by Ella Beck; Dec-17-2018 at 11:56.
    Carrying a torch for Classical Music...

  12. #12
    Commodore con Forza
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    New Sub-Forums are created from time to time on Talk Classical, but that's usually only after the moderators have discussed how much of a demand there is among the membership for such a new forum.

    'Symphonic-Electric' music is surely already covered by MIMF, because you could post either in the Fusion/Crossover Section or the General Music Debate Forum.
    Last edited by Ella Beck; Dec-17-2018 at 12:00.
    Carrying a torch for Classical Music...

  13. #13
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    Ella Beck! Thank you for your comments, and while I can only agree with all three replies,
    I can describe my motivations.
    You can take credit for some of this yourself, seeing you as a new member commenting on the lack of traffic here.
    Asking for a new forum is as much of an attention grabbing thing as it is a real request to invest.
    That's not attention for me, but from me, trying to assess everything and suggest some modernization.
    Sometimes Krummhorn takes a while to respond, but I have sent a message over four weeks ago without a reply.
    One of my replies, describing a potential Frederik Magle stage appearance as a rock star lead guitarist,
    was heavily edited, no... deleted, removing over ten lines, just leaving the first two.
    I'm not upset about that, as I've also seen another reply removed and one of yours removed.
    That only surprises me in that it happened without any admin explanation.

    I think "symphonic-electric" is a valid concept for a new forum, seeing so much content out there already.
    My understanding of the evolution of the human mind as expressed in music and the use of technology,
    is interesting for me. And let me say something to you, Ella Beck.
    When it really started slowing down here a couple of years ago,
    I was feeling self-conscious about seeing my name on the main forum page, as being the newest reply.
    So I decided to start threads I was interested in to keep visiting and typing away,
    and stay away from everyone else. I see Prog Head as doing the same thing.

    You saying "sub-forum" is a new term for me. That is more appropriate.

    I am here to add more comments with a video about foreign adaptations of American music,
    so I'll start a new reply for that.
    Oh! I cut and pasted my first replies to be the same for "Classical Music" and "Progressive Rock",
    because that was the combination of genres that blended to make "symphonic-electric".
    Now, I'm adding content I feel is more relevant to either category, no more duplicating.
    No matter what I do in life, I always get into it the first time around,
    and if I have to repeat myself I start to turn away.

    The new, lonely Magle.dk member John Watt, is a new thread in "introduce yourself", doing my own replies.
    I'm describing this home away from home, and I can say that, having my own "home", www.johnwatt.ca.
    Don't look at that. You'll only find out why I would sooner type about music here than my life there.
    If nothing else, if the scenery around here was as picturesque as yours, it would be better.

  14. #14
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso John Watt's Avatar
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    My heavy mental momentum, oh yes, you'll see, has been mellowed somewhat,
    with the reading and replying to Ella Beck, so here we go, back to a more progressive rock show.

    I was okay with hard rock, as long as the band sang songs about life and living,
    not just the profane and unforgiving. Sure, just having one lead vocalist wasn't the harmonies I sang in the choir,
    and one lead guitarist riffing off one note leads was boring right from the start, especially with no chordal backup,
    even if there were melodic players in bands with some musical interest, thinking Deep Purple.
    Black Sabbath was too slow and mind-addled, and Uriah Heep had a hard time negotiating a chord change.
    I finally connected with Genesis when "Carpet Crawlers" came out, finally understanding their European LSD fan base.
    Here in Ontario, the hard rock band Max Webster sang "we're having a rug party, and everyone is going to get laid".
    Somehow, at the time, that made more sense, even if they sang "we're having a bug party, and everyone is going to get Raid",
    on the album.
    You can see how hard rockers who took serious drugs got into heavy metal, more about the bombast than any heart-felt songwriting.
    I still call it heavy mental, because it weighs on my brain, the bombast, the musical drudgery, the skull-duggery, and the deaths.
    You might not think of The Grateful Dead as heavy metal, starting in California in the mid-sixties, like a folk-rock psychedelic band,
    but they evolved into the same kind of concert act as heavy metal bands did, setting a precedent as having a very specific fan base,
    and a concert appearance that went beyond the LSD experience of Woodstock, becoming a legalized narcotic band and audience party.
    Newspapers in North America stopped writing up Grateful Dead concerts, because of the bodies that were found after everyone left.
    In Buffalo, for me, right across the Niagara River at Fort Erie, a body was found on the field and another under some bleachers,
    the last time "the Dead" did a show.
    Now I know, anyone other than a North American musician isn't going to see all the public and private concert drug use as it is here,
    and my comments might make me seem to be just a downer and a put-downer, but I'm straight all of the time, all of my life,
    so I see and remember. This is talking about the origins, when I could reference contemporary electronica DJ parties based on ecstasy.
    When I moved back to my home town, tired of the bar scene after playing in Toronto show-bands for over two years,
    people would get upset with me, hearing my descriptions of playing in Toronto and Ontario, talking about recording artists they liked.
    You might think of "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" as being historic Canadiana as a song by Gordon Lightfoot,
    to use a non-heavy metal artist, a "beloved" folksinger. When I described his house as a hang-out for very serious heroin addicts,
    people got angry with me, saying I was talking like that because I was a loser, why I quit playing in Toronto, if I really did.
    But when international news came out, when Gordon Lightfoots' "fiance" was the woman who injected John Belushi and Robin Williams,
    doing "eight-balls" in a hotel room, leaving a dead John Belushi, people started calling me up and coming up to me to apologize,
    saying I was only telling the truth. I'm not mentioning all the musicians I know who spent time at his house, inviting me.
    Do you know why I'm telling you all of this? I'm hoping you will be feeling the same way about this next musical evolution.
    People from countries foreign to the United States playing heavy metal music.
    I'm hoping you will react with disbelief, seeing how the human mind works when it comes to attracting attention and making money.
    You, as a sane person, even as sane as any heavy metal fan can be, should be dumb-founded when you see this concert.
    It shouldn't make sense that this should even happen. It's more of a concept than anything a new group of musicians could accomplish.

    Look at the Madonna influence, the large Christian symbol, the huge, pale white image above it all. Is that Jesus of Nazareth?
    Look at the musicians who are playing, dressed in Mexican day-of-the-dead costumes, head-covers and all. It must be hot in there.
    Now that you see how I'm thinking, you can see other elements of sound and visuals designed to inflame your brain.
    This video has over 96 million views, and comments are almost all about how... uh... entertaining these very young girls are.
    And what is the song title? "Gimme Chocolate". How easy is that to... uh... assimilate?
    Look at the size of this concert. Look at their use of Metallica graphic arts with their name.
    Is this coming to American arenas? Are adult Metallica fans going to think, wow, I can take my children and grandchildren to see this?
    That's what this is about... children... where do you draw your heavy metal lines... or lay them out...
    I'm trying to lay you out, using some font conceit, waiting for you to see their name yourself. 4:03





    After this video was produced, one of the three girls died and another quit.
    The remaining singer got replacements and hired five more "backup" dancers.
    Remember the "British Invasion", when that government sponsored a staged cultural... uh... invasion?
    Could "Babymetal" be a new millennium foreign state sponsored reply? Can you reply,
    or are you still thinking about the various ways these girls show how they eat their chocolate?
    It used to be different strokes for different folks.
    Now it's about global cultures for global vultures.
    I just used to be picky. Now I'm thinking I would picket.
    Last edited by John Watt; Dec-17-2018 at 13:24.

  15. #15
    Midshipman, Forte
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    I presume by symphonic electric you mean stuff like this

    Lang may yer Lum Reek!

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