• Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.

    This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.

    As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.

    In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.

    (Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)

    Many kind regards
    smile.gif

    Frederik Magle
    Administrator

    Krummhorn
    Co-Administrator

Pneumatic action - differing delays between manuals

mrg

New member
I'm currently practicing on a 3 manual pneumatic action organ but am finding one particular aspect of the instrument particularly limiting. Whilst the Great and Choir divisions respond almost immediately to their notes being played, there is a noticable time lag for notes being played on the Swell.

This is to such an extent that the playing of fast passages with hands spread across the swell and a second manual simultaneously is both difficult and unpleasant to listen to. The same applies if you couple the Swell to the Great or Choir.

I'm fairly certain this isn't down to the accoustics of the building from where the organist is seated. Has anyone else ever come across this? Is is it typical of pneumatic action organs?

Martin
 

Soubasse

New member
Absolutely - it's a common problem. You may have also seen the thread elsewhere in this forum on tracker versus pneumatic.

I played for several years at an instrument which had exactly the sort of problem you've just described only this was an electric action instrument with the console a fair distance from the organ. The Great and Swell spoke at the same time (albeit with a slight lag), the Choir spoke slightly slower and the Pedals spoke even slower than the Choir! It's a problem common to many pneumatic and electric action organs, depending on when they were built, what sort of materials were used and how well it's maintained.

One can get used to it with regular practice, but it's a question of how well you want to get used to it. One the biggest problems I encountered was practicing on this instrument and then playing the same piece on a more responsive one. There is a lot of adjusting going on.

Matt
 

NEB

New member
I've been thinking a lot about all this recently and I'm wondering if with the electric action, wire lengths and processors speeds play a part?
 

Soubasse

New member
Certainly does. It's strange how electricity isn't anywhere near as fast as many people think. Apparently with older (Solid State) systems, you can increase the voltage to improve response time but someone with more know-how may wish to comment on this. The worst delay I ever encountered at an electric action console was around 0.5 of a second - it was ghastly. (mind you, I get worse delays between my synthesisers and the computer :grin: )
 

NEB

New member
Yes - so it's not just me that has noticed that the 'theoretically' instant, isn't necessarily quite so instant as it's made out to be. And yes - The synth-computer links can be chronic at times. :banghead:
 

mrg

New member
Playing on various instruments, I've found that I can get used to quite a significant delay provided that all the manuals exhibit the same amount of delay. I'm not convinced that I would eveer get used to playing on 2 manuals simultaneously and having one hand play slightly ahead of the other so that they sound together.

On a related topic, I occasionally play piano duets with my mother (retired music teacher), including some excellent arrangements of the Handel Organ Concertos. I suggested we try them on the organ at my church, which has a siginificant delay since the console and organ are at oposite ends of the nave. This proved to be almost impossible to keep together, because of this delay. My mother isn't an organist, and so isn't used to coping with such delays, but I wonder whether it would have been equally problematic if I had tried this with another organist. I'll have to give it a go sometime.

Martin G
 
Top