Playing from memory at the organ?

[Soubasse]

Interesting conversation here chaps. I find that the pieces I personally enjoy are easier to memorise ... well, DUH! of course they are - because that's what you want to be doing. The only work I can effectively play from memory is Alain's Litanies and that still took me years. It does depend greatly on your personal circumstances and your mental agility.

Probably the most stunning performance I have seen to date was Olivier Latry. He performed his entire recital from memory, including Alain's Trois Danses. I think what made it unique for me was that it gave a level of intimacy I'd not experienced before, to an instrument that can be anything but intimate. What you were experiencing then was just this one person very much in complete control of the instrument. The fact that the playing was also technically flawless and emotionally charged, added to the audience being short of breath at the end of it all.

However, for us mere mortals I think there is a practical side to this as well. I feel there seems to be a wider expectation from audiences to have a pianist memorise their performance because then they see just the performer with their instrument, and all that they can give it. With the organ, there is so much more going on, esp with stops, etc. For example, what about a recital at an instrument that has no performance aids and absolutely requires an assistant (or sometimes two). Should they be expected to memorise the work as well?

 

[methodistgirl]

I also play by ear

I am much better at playing by ear than reading. And I find it helpful to to look at my hands while playing, though I can play with my eyes closed I seem to understand which notes I am playing better if I look.

[quite=judy tooley]I have played the piano and organ since I was just
old enough to reach the pedals. My chord organ at home at the time
was almost as big as a small Hammond organ until my parents got me
a piano. The chord organ had about three and a half octaves on it.
Now, I give myself organ lessons on the pipe organ using song that
I all ready know from classical to church hymns. [/quote]

 

[methodistgirl]

Just curious, Lars. Did you learn to feel your way around the pedalboard the way John Stainer taught it? That's how I was taught--you feel for the spaces between the groups of black notes if you're not sure. I've had teachers criticize this over the years, but it never fails--I can play all different kinds of pedalboards, including some pretty strange early New England ones with an octave and a half spread out in the middle, and always find my place. So while some of my teachers didn't like it, I am glad I learned it that way.

I could pick up all kinds of music by ear. Learning how to read
music was a real challenge! It took me a long time to learn how to read
even the simplest sheet music like a church hymn book. I still consider
myself musicaly illiterate when it comes to reading music. I'm better off
picking up the song by ear. Judy Tooley

 

[AllanP]

I have observed that the most polished performances are given without music. Full attention can be given to the music. Virgil Fox always played from memory. Today Jonas Nordwall (Portland, OR) always plays from memory (he is not as well known as I don't think he promotes himself widely enough). I have heard others do as well.

Note that this is just a personal opinion.

 

[methodistgirl]

by ear

I also noticed a lot of professionals who perform play without sheet music
parked in front of them. The last time I was at the Organ Stop Pizza the
organist didn't use music. That was back in 1980 and he only used once
in a while a little slip of paper instead of full sized sheet music to get the
tune to play the particular piece. I'm just begining to really get the hang
of it playing the organ and I don't use music on some songs.:grin: Then if
I'm stuck on a song that I don't know I will use sheet music or a songbook.
judy tooley

 

[Thomas Dressler]

I've heard polished performances both with and without music. I'd say that the most polished performances are the ones where the performer does what works best for him/herself. I usually don't weigh in on the Virgil Fox controversies, however in this case I'll say to check out some of his videos on YouTube and his recordings (of which I own a number.) While sometimes he did play in a very polished way, many times I would say his performances were far from polished, but very effective in their communication. I think he was simply doing what worked best for him, however I would not use him as an example of flawless playing without music (except sometimes.)

 

[jhnbrbr]

I would be interested to know members' views on playing from memory, rather than the score. It still seems to be quite rare for professional organists to do this, whereas professional pianists would be embarrassed to be seen with music on the stand. I'm sure it's better to play from memory, even at my low standard, because the brainpower which was previously reading and deciphering can be devoted to listening instead. Of course, it's not really an either/or situation, because practice is actually a process of partial memorisation, so the printed music becomes a reminder, rather than a complete set of instructions. I find it takes me a long time to memorise even a short piece. Do any members have any interesting techniques to speed up the process?

 

[sunwaiter]

i play from memory only, since i can't read. but i don't play classical or complex pieces.

so i assume that it must be a challenge for any musician in the classical field to play a relatively long piece without reading it all along.

i've played the drums in a "jazz" workshop, with lots of saxophone players, and their purpose was to KNOW the tunes so they wouldn't have to read anymore. some found it almost impossible simply because they diodn't have enough TIME.

as an autodidact, i've learned to play repertoire of funk, jazz, rock, and other things on guitar by following the cd as best as i could. rehearsal (repetition) seems the best and simplest way to memorize, as for any matter (languages, numbers, etc).

 

[methodistgirl]

If you ask me. Some people are born with the talent where they don't
really need the sheet music to play it on any instrument. I was one of
them, Mozart was one of them because he was gifted, and there are
lots of others who have the gift of music. Then there are some who
had to learn how to play music and the only way to play anything is to
have sheet music in front of them so that they can play it note per note.
To me sheet music is an instruction on how to play a song or piece just
like instruction books on how to create a lovely shawl or sweater. Some
of those are hard to follow for me.
judy tooley

 

[stoferb]

I am a pianist that has played organ for a few years. And it's true. I easily memorize piano pieces but I prefer to have the score in front of me at the organ. I don't have too much trouble learning organ pieces by heart either, it's not that, but it just doesn't feel the same way on an organ. On the piano playing from a score is dividing my attention, but on the organ my attention is divided anyway, hands, feet, manuals and stops. It actually helps me focus on the music to have it in front of me at the organ.

 

[C5Says]

Those who play by ear are often the intuitive and those who need sheet music are the logical ones. There is no right or wrong, just different strengths. You may find the former would most likely have slanted handwriting and the latter, vertical.

I sing with the choir and play some string instruments. Either with singing or with playing, I can't perform without my music sheet. I get lost. Unless the piece has been performed over and over again that I know it by heart. Even then, I still prefer to have my music sheet, just in case.

 

[acc]

Those who play by ear are often the intuitive and those who need sheet music are the logical ones. [...]

I'm not so sure about such simple black-and-white associations. Mind you, a famous counter-example would be Marcel Dupré: he always played without sheet music, yet he certainly was one of the most logical organists ever.

 

[tittualex]

I find it very difficult to play music without music sheet......... even if it is known piece i still prefer to read music ........ i have been fascinated seeing my friends playing pieces without sheet......... may be the reason is that my SHORT term memory is smarter and for them the LONG term memory is good.......

Alex

 

[QFE]

A big issue for organists is the amount of music that they have to play. In my more active days, there was never the time to hide in an apartment for a year and learn new rep. from memory. Sure, certain choral pieces popped up yearly, but with a four week or less lead-time, learning them from memory was a no-no.

As a result, I would say that organists sight reading skills boarder on the occult. It really frustrates me that many excellent musicians do not have this skill because the focus is on learning a small number of pieces to a very high standard.

My downfall has always been transposition.. How many other musicians get asked to do this, I wonder?

 

[Sylvie Pacey]

playing from memory at the organ

What a fascinating subject this has turned out to be. Myself I need the crutch of seeing the notes in front of me. Although I seem unable to memorise anything at all, but I can play by ear if I close my eyes. I write many tunes down from memory but have to play melody and then add the harmony for the left hand afterwards. As to transposing, I can't transpose whilst playing, but find that it is easy if I notate the piece using the following simple method.
Write out the scale of the original piece and directly beneath that scale, write out the scale of the key that you require. Thus:-

KEY OF F major F G A Bb C D E
KEY OF C major C D E F G A B

Read the notes directly below, so that F becomes C-G becomes D-A becomes E and Bb becomes F Etc. This works with all the Major keys and is so easy to do. (Perhaps I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but if you haven't come across this method, give it a try.sylvie

 

[SilverLuna]

I play mostly by ear. But i have some sheet music that i find a "chunk" (basicly a few measures or a line), figure out the notes on all 3 staffs, play the phrase several times until i have it mastered, then i go to the next "chunk" and memorize that, but that is when i have plently of time and I'm figuring it out myself, not when someone puts it in front of me and tells me to sight read!! So i basicly memorize it while I'm playin through it xD But everyone has their own style of doing things, have fun experimenting!! ~Silver

 

[Mark B]

Hi all, Just discovered this subject. I too play a lot from memory. I am one of those who started playing piano at home at an early age with both hands. I played the harmonium for several years at school. I started studying piano at 14 and by 17 (before entering university) I completed Grade 7 pianoforte Royal School of Music exam. Since I have played both by ear and using music.

It is worth pointing out that there are two types of playing by ear: that in which the basic tune/ melody is retained with improvisation being done for accompaniment. This would be a sort of personal interpretation/ improvisation which will very likely vary every time one plays that particular tune/ melody/ hymn or whatever.

The other form of playing by ear is learning the actual notes of a piece enough to be able to play it back several times just as it was written, note for note. This of course is more challenging and will invariably take greater effort and time.

I can do both and consider myself amongst the lucky ones.

Regards
Mark B

 

[LastCorpseStanding]

For all the years of piano exams, having to memorize the entire programme, I've never gotten into that habit playing the organ, perhaps because I've never had to. There are a number of works I just know from memory, even after not playing them for over a year, but I still keep the sheet music in front of me 'just in case', as well as reminding me of registrations.

At my last postin, the organ had 99 memory levels, so everything I ever learned got stored into memory and notations made in my music. This was way too much information to remember, so I had to have the music. Of course, by the time I got to a recital date, I had it all memorized and could play to the end if, for some reason, my page turner really screwed up, or the music fell off the rack.

Most of the usual service music I have memorized too, including a bunch of hymns.

As for pedalling, My first organ teacher started me feeling for the keys. Fortunately, he left not long after I started, and the new organist started me on Gleason, for which I am very thankful. Actually, he had incredible technique. I found the system of "measuring" the spaces using heels and knees much easier, until I finally got to the point I'm at now, where I just know instinctively where each pedal is in relation to where I'm seated. I also use quite a bit of crossing. But I think the most important lesson in pedalling was advance arrival. Just make sure your foot is in position before you actually have to play the note.

 

[Mark B]

Oh! The organ is a different ball game. I started playing the organ only in 1980 with a 8.5 year break (total abstinence because I had no access to an instrument) between 2000 and recently when I discovered I could actually build an affordable one myself - which I just did. I never had any formal training in organ playing and am really beginning to do some playing now that I have an instrument in my own home! Registration is something I do by trial and error, getting 3 manuals set up before I start playing and making sure I do not need to take my hands off the keyboards! I'm sure professional organists out there must be banging their heads against their computer monitors. I am an amateur and play as long as I enjoy the time I spend at the instrument. I do not aspire to give concerts; my public playing is limited to the humble Sunday Mass in our parish!

 

[Corno Dolce]

Having committed the complete organ works of JSBach and Charles Tournemire to memory has been a long and hard journey, which has its benefits. However, I have no real interest in doing the same for the complete works of Vierne, Widor, or Dupre. Of course, the latter composers have written staples of the concert repertoire. But I had to draw the line somewhere. If you have the time and the stamina, then go for it.