Controversial book

methodistgirl

New member
No I can't say that I have. I just received a book that can be just as
controversial. I just got a new bible the other day after taking my
first bible class in church called Firm Foundation. That's all I will read
except a songbook now and then. I will read a songbook like a novel!
judy tooley
 

Sybarite

New member
Why would you want to stop reading any other books? Don't you think that that will limit your intellectual development?
 
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methodistgirl

New member
I don't think reading the bible will limit my intellectual developement.
You might not know this but the bible in any language whether it is
King James or New American Standard, is an open book right now.
If you noticed, everything that is going on with the news right now happens
to relate to the bible. Take the book of Isaiah chapter 13 for example
is history repeating itself in Iraq. The Lord promises a comeback some
where in the future. Also the bible can be a big question. There are song
lyrics in Psalms, prehistory in Genesis, and the last days in Revelations.
This book will open your mind up when you read and study it.
judy tooley:rolleyes:
 

methodistgirl

New member
books

I also have other books which are study books. Right now I'm studing
from a book called Growing Strong in God's family and a simple organ
book that I give myself organ lessons. I just can't remember the name
of the book but it has a drawing of a pipe organ on it. It is so simple
for people who have a hard time reading music. I also scrapbook and
create my own books. Does anyone scrapbook?
judy tooley:rolleyes:
 

Sybarite

New member
With respect, I notice that you dodged my previous question.

What makes you think that I haven't read the Bible – in any one (or more) of a number of translations?
 

methodistgirl

New member
What Church do you go to? You can tell by my call name that I'm a
Methodist. I've been to other churches as well and some of them I
thought was the right one. But after leaving the presbyterian church
30 years ago I found something in the Methodist Church that I lost
and left behind. Now I feel at home. If you read the bible then you
must go to a church.
judytooley:smirk:
 

Sybarite

New member
What Church do you go to? You can tell by my call name that I'm a
Methodist. I've been to other churches as well and some of them I
thought was the right one. But after leaving the presbyterian church
30 years ago I found something in the Methodist Church that I lost
and left behind. Now I feel at home. If you read the bible then you
must go to a church.
judytooley:smirk:

I was brought up Methodist. My father was a Methodist clergyman who is now a retired supernumary.

So I'm quite familiar with the Bible – although I haven't been to church for years. However, I've read rather more of the 'Good Book' recently. The bits where God orders his servants to rape women that they've taken prisoner in war are quite interesting. As are the bits where God apparently condones child abuse and murder.
 

methodistgirl

New member
The bible

In my bible Apostle Paul speaks against fornation and that means rape.
What you must have read was probably in the old testament. It does
mention keeping prisoners of war but it didn't mean what you understand
about it. The new testament is different on that. Yes it said that there
would be trouble during a war. It does however mention not just women
will have a hard time children will as well. This mess that is going on now
in Iraq is an example of what is in Isaiah ch.13-14. I haven't heard of
a war where women were left alone. Have you? Even during the American
Civil War women were mistreated; black and white. That is what I can
understand about the bible. God will forgive us of any sin that we commit.
Judy tooley
 

Sybarite

New member
The God of the Old Testament is also the God of the New Testament.

When that God tells his servants that they should 'take' and use as they want women (well, the virgins) amongst prisoners of war, then that God is not talking about giving them flowers and courting them. It means that you can take them and rape them.

The story of Abraham's near-sacrifice of his own son is a story of child abuse – which God apparently finds to His pleasure.

The story of Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah is another story of intended child abuse – sexual this time, since Lot seems to think that homosexual acts between adults are so bad that he'll give his virgin daughters to a load of horny villagers instead of them having their wicked way with a couple of adult male visitors. And this is supposed to be the good guy – Lot is the one 'good' man who is saved by God. Ergo God doesn't have any problem with child abuse. There's also no mention of any punishment from God in the subsequent story, when the daughters apparently get Lot drunk so that they can have sex with him and get pregnant by him.

The Bible is full of such things. You cannot simply divorce one part from the other and say: 'well that doesn't matter any more.' To do so is to say that God got it wrong in the Old Testament and that He changed his mind thereafter. Which does not do much for the idea of an omniscient being.

And that's without even considering the question of whether there is a god at all.

And fornication is not the same as rape.
 

Ouled Nails

New member
I never liked the word "fornication." It's a very harsh-sounding word, not poetic at all, and it sounds like what a preacher would utter pejoratively to encourage total abstinence (or a vow of chastity). Copulation is not more poetic; it's coldly scientific, like concoction.(On the other hand, rape sounds exactly as it should). Any poetic suggestions other than making love -- which reminds me of a cottage industry?:grin:

The think about the Bible that gets me is how God's punishment, God's wrath, is so "atomic" in proportion that he apparently was willing to punish a whole population of infants, children, adults and elders for the stubborness of a single, despotic ruler. Where's the fairness in that?
 

methodistgirl

New member
thanks

Thanks Ouled Nails. I can agree with that. Psalms 9:16 says "The Lord
is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands."
This is from the NIV bible. The Lord will judge all of us and sin will be
judged harshly. Unlike the old testament from Matthew to Revelations
we have a saviour that has forgiven us. All we have to do is ask which
makes a big difference.
judy tooley:)
 

Sybarite

New member
Thanks Ouled Nails. I can agree with that. Psalms 9:16 says "The Lord
is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands."
This is from the NIV bible. The Lord will judge all of us and sin will be
judged harshly. Unlike the old testament from Matthew to Revelations
we have a saviour that has forgiven us. All we have to do is ask which
makes a big difference.
judy tooley:)

So you think that killing innocent babies is acceptable?
 

methodistgirl

New member
the bible

Who said anything about abortion? I hate abortion!:mad: I'm one of those
who would have done anything to be a natural mother. I never could
get that way. If a girl came to me telling me she was going to do that
you would probably hear me from madisonville, kentucky to London,
England screaming at this girl. That is the reason why our church sponcers
a program called door of hope. Believe me, America is not exactly china.
We are not communist. We're democratic and a free nation. But, we still
do have rules here. Abortions are wrong but that does not prevent that
happening here. Somebody will do that to keep it from their parents.
Abortion is murder! There are plenty of us will would love to adopt an
unwanted child. I was one of them 47 years ago. I was adopted and
grew up as a preacher's kid. I had a wonderful life, but it didn't erase
the shame my mother felt for not waiting until she was married.:cry:
I still pray for you.
judy tooley
 

Sybarite

New member
Who said anything about abortion?

Indeed. Who did say anything about abortion? I certainly didn't.

... If a girl came to me telling me she was going to do that you would probably hear me from madisonville, kentucky to London, England screaming at this girl...

What if she was the victim of a rape or possibly likely to die as a result of the pregnancy?

Now, let's get back to the topic, shall we?

I'm going to make an assumption here. If I'm wrong, I apologise. But I'm going to assume that you believe that God created the world. If that's the case, you presumably believe that He created all the volcanoes and the tectonic plates that cause earthquakes etc. Yes?

Now, this God you believe in, according to Judeo-Christian tradition, is all-knowing, all-seeing and all-powerful. Yes?

So when this God created the Earth, He designed it with all the tectonic plates and the volcanoes etc. So He designed the Earth in the full and certain knowledge that earthquakes and volcanoes and floods and tornados would kill people, including tiny babies, because he sees everything, is all-powerful and knows everything that has ever been and ever will be.

This all-knowing God designed the Earth to kill people. So the Asian tsunami a few years ago, for instance, was a direct result of God designing this world exactly so that it would kill people – including tiny babies and pregnant women.

Now, apparently abortion gets you screaming mad. So presumably you think that this God geezer is an absolutely hateful specimen for killing tiny babies and foetuses too?
 
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methodistgirl

New member
the bible

Have you read the book of Job and what he went through? He started out
a wealthy man and tragety struck! He lost his house, his children, his live
stock, and was struck down with boils! My preacher whom I think the world
of tragicly lost his nephew who hit a tree and was killed instantly. When tragey strikes we all seem to ask God why! Why does this happen. There
will always be something tragic that I will ask why did it happen. A week
ago last saturday I had a terrible reaction to something I got into after
cleaning my house. It hurt to breathe so I wouldn't dare, couldn't swallow,
and I could hear my heart slow down. Sometimes the devil has a hand in
some of the trouble. I laid there in my bed without muttering a sound and
just prayed with my thoughts. It wasn't able to dial 911! I don't even
have a telephone. I couldn't make a sound at all. Not even an eek.
The devil stays busy causing trouble to anybody. Job's wife even said
"Curse God and die!" which was foolish. I tried to raise up and it took
me five minutes to get up and I rubbed my chest until it let up. I don't
know if it was a muscle, my heart, or an allergic reaction to some of the
dust or maybe mold. I even feared a heart attack but there was some
thing different. I felt as if something was trying to snuff me out.
I realized the devil was on the attack after I chased him away by
praying and saying"devil in the name of the Lord, go away!"and this
spirit left. Now I'm well except for the left over cough.
judy tooley
 

Sybarite

New member
Have you read the book of Job and what he went through? He started out
a wealthy man and tragety struck! He lost his house, his children, his live
stock, and was struck down with boils!

Yes. Because God was agreed to let the devil do his worst to Job, just to show off how faithful Job really was. It was effectively a bet.

Imagine – this loving God used one of his most faithful followers for a bet. He allowed people to be killed for a bet. What a nice, loving God.

I'm glad that you're over your cough – but I'll try this again. The God of Judeo-Christian tradition is supposed to be all-powerful, all-seeing and all-knowing.

He's supposed to be so powerful that He created everything – the heavens, the Earth and all the animals, including humans. According to the Bible, he created the mountains and the sea – everything. So this God created earthquakes and volcanoes and floods and tsunamis and hurricanes. When those things kill people, they are being killed by something that God apparently created.

And God also created evil and good – in other words, God created sin. And seeing as God knows everything, he created sin in the full and certain knowledge that it would catch people out. He created people so that they would 'sin' and thus give Him the excuse to punish them.

That is absolutely according to the Bible. Because if you don't think so, then that means that you don't think that God is all-powerful and all-knowing and all-seeing. It means that you do not believe in the God of Judeo-Christian tradition. It means that you don't believe that He is perfect, as we are supposed to believe. And it also means that you believe that there's someone else out there that is doing some creating of their own. Now you'll doubtless say that that is the devil – Satan, Lucifer. So that'll be the devil that God created. And this is the God that knows everything. So God created the devil and God created sin. What for? To spend eternity playing with people that He supposedly loves? Just like Job?

This is the nature of the God of the Bible.

And I suggest that you'd be best advised to visit your doctor and let him or her check your health after an episode like that rather than hoping that prayer solved it – something that you have absolutely no evidence for.
 

methodistgirl

New member
controversial book

Now you sound like an athiest or better have you been hurt in some way
that you think God had something to do with it? This does have me
concerned. If you were once a christian, something bad has happened
where you ask why and blame God. Anything evil really comes from the
devil. I wasn't always a methodist. I'm really new at it. I was a pentacost
church member that believed in a Jesus only religion. I'm glad that I left
that kind of church. They got on my nerves and the Methodist church
I go to is a lot different than some of the others. As for seing a doctor,
I can't afford one! The doctor bills here in the USA are so blasted
expensive. I'm better now, I just smoke too much!
judy tooley
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
. . . As for seing a doctor,
I can't afford one! The doctor bills here in the USA are so blasted
expensive. I'm better now, I just smoke too much!judy tooley

Judy,
Aren't there public assistance programs there to help you with medical issues?
Aha - smoking too much ... I quit - cold turkey - 3 years ago ... no cravings, no problems, no weight gain. I made that decision on All Saints Day - I did it for my Son, my girlfriend (and life partner) and for myself.

Hope you get to feeling better ..
 
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