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Thread: Gas Prices High?

  1. #1
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Gas Prices High?

    Gas prices from an Economics 101 point of view:

    http://mises.org/story/2940
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  2. #2
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Well, that was interesting ... I have to disagree with the authors statement about profits ... Exxon/Mobile is publically stating that they are making all time record profits in this new century ... those profits are coming from us, the consumers.

    However, by comparison, gasoline isn't as high in price as some other commodities we use daily ... Bottled water for instance: $6.79 a gallon ... simple purified water - totally amazing.

    We should expand this thread topic perhaps and include some gas prices applicable to our particular region.

    Tucson, Arizona - $3.27 (87 Octane) to $3.47 (91 Octane) - April 21, 2008.
    Kh ~~.
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  3. #3
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hello Master Krummhorn,

    The beleaguered citizens of Hawaii paid $3.96/gal. yesterday and will pay $3.85 today. Methinks that simply quoting price differentials according to prevailing market conditions in every state does not really answer the questions we as consumers pose.

    Yes, we can all do our part in driving fuel-efficient vehicles but I don't see individual states and the Feds creating the mass-transit systems necessary to handle the needs of citizens in the cities and countryside. If I lived in Manhattan, N.Y. I would have no need for a car since there are trains and buses everywhere with terrifically frequent service. Most Americans don't live in a city like New York with such an embarrassment of riches in public transportation.

    Btw, the publishing industry makes over 22% in profits according to the article, more than the 9.5% made by the oil companies. And look at the portion of the take by taxes levied on each gallon! We who do not live in a major metropolis like New York are dependent on our cars to get to work. My music job has me often driving 50 miles a day. Using my car helps me to cover that distance in 50 minutes. If I were to use the local bus system it would take me five hours!!!

    Humbly and Respectfully yours,

    VADM Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  4. #4
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    RAdm Corno Dolce,

    The points you mention are quite valid ... our fair city has yet to even start any discussion about mass rail transit and the like. Because of all the bureaucratic morons that run our government, the "studies" alone will take 5 to 10 years and cost millions, then once the "study" determines that the need is real (duh, just look at the traffic, guys - doesn't take 5 years of meetings to realize that we are choked and almost gridlocked) then the design process kicks in for another 4 years, costing tens of millions, then out to bid and ... gasp ... finally construction can begin, oh, about 15 years from now, that when complete, the finished project will already be 10 years obsolete.

    The local freeway expansion is a perfect example. We had 3 lanes each direction for about 12 years, and the last 7 years that route is like a parking lot most of the day. Finally, after 4 years of "studies" they government finally "noticed" that there is a traffic problem and the route needs to be widened. So they are adding one lane more in each direction. When that project completes in 2011, we will be in the same boat as we were before the expansion. And then another "study" will have to take place before they "see" the traffic backing up again. Government is moving too slow to keep pace with growth.

    All of the above must be paid for through taxation. We are now taxed to death and adding more burden to our meager income levels with all the other prices for food and such rising faster than hot bread in the oven. I'm retired with a pension and my church salary income ... the 3% annual raise in my pension does not anywhere equal the 12% rate of inflation, not to mention the 23% rise in medical insurance premiums. It has to stop somewhere ... and our government needs to take action, soon.

    Yes, we have a bus system, but like you, a simple journey to my church would take close to 3 hours considering all the transfers and wait times, when I can (and do) drive the 14 miles distance in about 25 minutes. So in a nutshell, public transportation, at least here, is blotto, unless you work downtown AND live on a bus line.

    I really stand in awe at cities like New York and San Francisco who had the foresight a long long time ago to understand the issues about getting people from point to point.
    Makes me wonder why every other city across the nation didn't jump on this concept years ago when labor and material prices were actually affordable.

    So, in the meantime, I'll continue to commute everywhere in my Turbocharged VW Jetta which nets averages 31 miles to the gallon, and smile with gritted teeth when filling the gas tank.

    So, your price of fuel dropped 9 cents from yesterday? Around here, it drops maybe a penny every two weeks, and then only if the price per barrel drops $20.
    Kh ~~.
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  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi VADM Krummhorn,

    Congrats on 3,000 posts - WoooHooo

    Have you "demoted" me to RADM?

    Why other cities did not get on the mass-transit bandwagon like New York or San Francisco? Ans: Political failure exacerbated by failure of the voting constituency. Winston Churchill said it best: "The greatest threat to democracy is the average voter".

    My Mazda gets 33 mpg and I also grin at the pump.

    Yep, the rate of inflation is galloping away - the gov't prints more money and spends untold billions dollars on pork. Before 1913 we had no income tax and were the wealthiest country. now look what has happened - we have income tax and our economy is the laughing stock of the developed nations. Income tax destroys wealth creation and drives businesses away and jobs for Americans. Before 1913 we only had a tax on what we consumed. Income tax quashes savings initiative - it drives us to consume more.

    Humbly,

    VADM CD
    Last edited by Corno Dolce; Apr-22-2008 at 21:29.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  6. #6
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    Hi VADM Krummhorn,

    Congrats on 3,000 posts - WoooHooo

    Have you "demoted" me to RADM?
    My bad ... consider the "R" meaning "Royal" in that slip of the fingers. Please accept my humble apologies, V.Adm, Corno Dolce

    3,000? Oh my ... hadn't noticed ... ... But, thank you for the congrats
    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce
    Why other cities did not get on the mass-transit bandwagon like New York or San Francisco? Ans: Political failure exacerbated by failure of the voting constituency. Winston Churchill said it best: "The greatest threat to democracy is the average voter".
    Makes me wonder what is different from New Yorkers from Arizonans. Surely both groups would have wanted to make things better for the future. But again, NYC has lots more density of population per city block than downtown Phoenix or Tucson. For my trips to Mesa, I would much prefer taking a train as opposed to driving ... guess it won't happen in my lifetime, at least here.

    Quote Originally Posted by corno dolce
    . . . Yep, the rate of inflation is galloping away - the gov't prints more money and spends untold billions dollars on pork. Before 1913 we had no income tax and were the wealthiest country. now look what has happened - we have income tax and our economy is the laughing stock of the developed nations. Income tax destroys wealth creation and drives businesses away and jobs for Americans. Before 1913 we only had a tax on what we consumed. Income tax quashes savings initiative - it drives us to consume more.
    So true ... sadly true.
    I'm going to do my part and begin writing to my state and national legislatures. If the constituencies of all these government people (who supposedly [ha ha] represent the public) all started writing and voicing their opinions, eventually things might get turned around. Doesn't hurt to try, and we [the public] have to start somewhere.
    Kh ~~.
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  7. #7
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    It's interesting that everyond moans about the price of gas (petrol as we call it). I for one don't drive, don't own a car and use buses, trains and ferrys. Sure, if I lived in the country and didn't have access to reasonable public transportation services I'd probably own a car (or maybe a push bike).

    Anyone living in a city with a good public transportation system (like Sydney) who whinges about the cost of driving to work needs to get a grip on reality frankly.

  8. #8
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Good point, CT64 ... I'm not whining about the gas prices ... My point is that the big oil companies are publicizing the fact of "record profits", and yet continue to raise the prices for no apparent reason other than to line their pockets with even more profits.

    Sure, Tucson has mass transit system ... and if you are going from point A to point B within the city limits, all fine and dandy. We have "unincorporated" (county) areas within and surrounding the city proper, and those county areas are not served by the city mass transit system. The church, where I am employed, is in a county area ... the mass transit stops about 3 miles short of the church site.

    Our local government is only at the "talking" stages of light rail systems ... next step will be the "studies" (5 years), then the "proposals" (5 years), and then funding (5 years), then environmental impact studies (5 years), then even more concern by local people about the "pigmy owls" again (12 years in the courts and litigation issues), then construction bidding (3 years), actual construction (8 years) ... in other words, hades will freeze over before anything like this ever happens here.

    So, I pay whatever price it is ... but knowing that I am only providing a better retirement benefit for the oil company brass makes me upset - but there is little I can do about it.
    Kh ~~.
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    Amateur musicians practice until they get it right ...
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    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  9. #9
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, Krummhorn, the United States has a dismal record on the environment and will continue to whilst citizens still think driving fuel guzzling behemoths is their god given right. Sad but true, unfortunately it's a similar situation in Australia, too. Good thread however, keeps things nicely on the radar, thanks.

  10. #10
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hey CT64,

    The crazy truckers in the Land Of Oz drive those soot and Nox belching road-trains.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  11. #11
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    I blame our state and federal governments for putting trucks on the road. We have a disused railway network ... now trucks carry tons of crap all over the place whilst the train lines lie disused. It's just criminal.

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