Criminal Punishment - Your Thoughts

Muza

New member
I wonder if he's gonna blame Freud for that one!!! :eek:

P.S. how lovely - he wanted to keep them away from sins of the world, so he dicided to indulge and take the sins of the world upon himself?!? .... cute:confused:

he's got a good shot at that insanity plea. Do you guys know any details on his trial? when its gonna be and stuff like that?
 

Muza

New member
P.S. Im no mastermind in human/criminal psychology, but if you are blaming someone/thing, that already means that you are guilty (and you know it). Its kinda an admittance that you are/were doing something wrong, and you are now trying to rationalize it.
 

Mat

Sr. Regulator
Staff member
Sr. Regulator
Regulator
Whatever this creature (Fritzl) says, there will be no excuse for what he did.
 

marval

New member
I am not sure when the trial will be, here is an article about what he did.


Austrian police have revealed that Josef Fritzl spent years planning the labyrinthine bunker in which he imprisoned and raped his daughter, and that eight doors including two massive electrically operated steel hatchways separated the complex from the outside world.

Franz Polzer, of Lower Austria's criminal police said 73-year-old Fritzl, who has confessed to holding his daughter, Elisabeth, captive for 24 years and fathering her seven children, appeared to have had an "obsession" about locking her up that began at least six years before her underground ordeal began. "He planned her incarceration and prison in minute detail with the objective of keeping his daughter captive for a long time," said Mr Polzer. "This goes some way towards explaining how he was able to conceal his actions from the rest of the world for so long."
Mr Polzer said that, in 1978, Fritzl had applied for planning permission to build an extension to his cellar in Amstetten. At the time Elisabeth was 12. He said detailed police investigation of the cellar had revealed a labyrinth of chambers. "It is hard to imagine, but anyone wanting to get into the prison from outside has to pass through a total of eight doors," added Mr Polzer.
Fritzl started raping his daughter when she was 11. But in 1984, when she was 18 and had once run away from home, he decided to imprison her indefinitely. Statements given to police by Elisabeth Fritzl say he lured her beneath ground by pretending he needed help to carry a door down into the cellar for storage.
Once there he drugged his daughter with ether and dragged her into a small chamber where she was handcuffed to a pole for two days. Fritzl later put her on a leash made from an electric cable, which enabled her to reach a lavatory.
For the first nine years of her ordeal, Elisabeth Fritzl was held prisoner in the same cell. She was raped by her father every three days on average and gave birth to three of their seven children in the same room. Fritzl extended the complex in 1993 by constructing a corridor to other rooms, one of which contained a double bed and a television.
Police had only recently discovered the existence of the second massive steel entrance hatch that weighed approximately half a tonne, said Mr Polzer. "The quality of the air underground leaves much to be desired," he said.
Austria's worst recorded rape and incest case came to light on 19 April after Elisabeth's Fritzl's 19-year-old daughter Kerstin, who spent her whole life underground, became seriously ill and was finally allowed by Josef Fritzl to be admitted to hospital. Kerstin Fritzl has been in an artificially induced coma ever since.
Doctors caring for Elisabeth Fritzl and the two other children freed from the cellar said yesterday that although they were making a gradual recovery, Elisabeth and her five-year-old son Felix had suffered a relapse due to over exposure to daylight. "We had been opening their curtains more and more to get them used to daylight," said Dr Berthold Kepplinger, head of the clinic where they staying. "But they have had a bit of a setback. We have now given them back their protective glasses," he added.
Dr Kepplinger said Fritzl had fed his prisoners with tablets containing vitamin D and had even arranged for a sun lamp to be set up in their windowless cellar to stop them contracting rickets. "They also had an aquarium in the cellar," he added. "We have installed a new one for them in their accommodation in the clinic and the youngest one has been given back his teddy. They are all benefiting from the fresh air and balanced diet."


Margaret
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
I think slow torture over many days is necessary for this evil Who?.

I'd start with pliers and remove his toes and fingers, one per day, over ten days, and that's just the entree.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
I find the discussion on this thread having made a curious turn. I see a strange disconnect from reality here: No torturing of Al-Qaeda operatives and foreign fighters that have been captured but sanctioning of Fritzl being tortured? :confused::confused::confused:

What Fritzl did was criminal, despicable, outrageous, tyrannical, criminally psychosociopathic, and malevolently evil. Justice must be served, no doubt about that. If Fritzl is to be tortured then why not the use of torture in interrogations to help uncover plots where many more people will be maimed and lose their life?
 

Muza

New member
personally I am not against it, but dont make a mistake in thinking its a same thing.

This is a crime where a person has continiously and maliciously tortured other people over ages. Although what Al Qaeda does is crime, its a crime aimed to eliminate - yes, but torture over years - no. They aim to mass destruct in a quick manner, so even though its a large scale crime, its lacking this heinous
inhumane factor that we see in Fritzls case. They are fighting for an ideology and against another ideology, which is spilled at innocent people. What he did was not for any idea, it was a cold blooded crime aimed specifically at a certain human being, who is his own flesh and blood. There is unusual cruelty in this, dont you agree?

There is a diference in those crimes my friend, even though I cant really explain it.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Muza,

I do totally agree that what Fritzl did was unusually cruel. However, an ideology that justifies flying airplanes into skyscrapers is equally cruel and criminally psychosociopathic.

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

methodistgirl

New member
The guys who flew into skyscrapers did get their just punishment.
That's death and they got it instantly. This guy who did this
hideous crime is still in debate.
judy tooley
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Ms. Judy,

They died as martyrs for the faith - Martyrdom for a faith is a concept that is ill-understood by a large swath of the general public.

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

Muza

New member
Corno, I definitely think that these crimes should be stopped by whatever means necessary. As a matter of fact, just a few years ago an aeroplane full of people was saved (not due to torture, but due to screening of phone conversations/emails - which people are so afraid of and protest it like crazy).

Again, I agree that death of many people is a crime (and of course should be stopped by whatever means necessary), but its still not the same. I guess people can relate more to Fritzls crime and find the torture of a child harder to visualize.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Muza,

I think I have a general grasp of how you are reasoning the problematique about Fritzl and capital punishment. I'll entertain your notions gladly, so no worries, mate :):):)

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
I find the discussion on this thread having made a curious turn. I see a strange disconnect from reality here: No torturing of Al-Qaeda operatives and foreign fighters that have been captured but sanctioning of Fritzl being tortured? :confused::confused::confused:

What Fritzl did was criminal, despicable, outrageous, tyrannical, criminally psychosociopathic, and malevolently evil. Justice must be served, no doubt about that. If Fritzl is to be tortured then why not the use of torture in interrogations to help uncover plots where many more people will be maimed and lose their life?

I second it. There are lots of criminals who deserve it to be tortured , drowned, quartered, burned alive. I understand it, when cops and special agents kill some dangerous criminals at the place as they catch them - because these people know exactly, that after a couple of years these guys will be let go from the prison and will begin again.

Still, I am sorry to say that the physical tortures, etc. are can not be compatible with the norms of the society we live in - and it is the only world I would personally prefer to be the part of.
 

marval

New member
Headline on the front page of the newspaper today, another person stabbed, a bloody knife lying on a busy street. And to cap it all, judges are being told to just slap the maniacs on the wrist.

When will the punishment fit the crime? How are you going to stop crime if there is no severe deterrent. If people think that all they will get is a slap on the wrist, or a fine, they will continue to comit crime. Also criminals in waiting will think that's an easy life, better than working for a living.


Margaret
 

intet_at_tabe

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.)
Like I said. If we did like the native americans when a crime was
comitted it would slow down dramaticly.
judy tooley

Hi guys. :tiphat:

So you´re back to the well known middleaged punishment methods - an eye for an eye - using the torture methods followed by Andrew´s "slicing the body in parts" or drowning by force, perhaps even lynching (Geez Andrew???). You really scared me there.

The case against the monster Josef Fritzl in most of your opinions, are now equal to the fanatic islamits and perpretators at the 9/11 WTC bombing by Al Queda (?) according to how, we should punish in both these cases. Torture them, cut them to pieces, drown them or as Ms. Judy says regarding the methods of the native americans, the indians, You´re found guilty by us - Torture him and then death will arrive automaticly during extreme pain, like they do it in China. No defence - excution two minutes after the conviction, bye, bye to the appeal courts, excactly what happened to Chauchesko and his wife in Rumania, shot at the neck two minutes after conviction.

This is your judgement in both cases?

I agree with Muza, who spoke it so eloquantly, there has to be a huge difference for these two scenarios of crimes. One is highly political, one ideologi against another. The Fritzl case is one "human being" (I can hartly say it "human being" about this guy) at the same time a father, who deliberately exercised mental and physical torture against his own family and convicted his children to confinement - in the dark for years on end.

Interesting opinions from you all.

I am glad that none of you guys are the judges in this case against Josef Fritzl, since the investigations in Amstetten have not finished yet, the court case has not even started, and his daughter, the mother of his children, still in a coma at the hospital.

Honestly dear Corno Dolce, I don´t think you have to fear that Josef Fritzl will ever achieve martyrdom, like the jews achieved martyrdom at the Colleseum, when the Roman Empire fet them to the lions for fun and the "show", for the citizens of Rome, itself. As for the Al Queda, they payed with their own lives during 9/11, like the Kamicaze pilots of Japan did it during the WWII in the Pacific Ocean and at Pearl Harbour in honor of the emperor of Japan.

Let´s leave the trial, the conviction and judgement day against the monster Josef Fritzl for the Austrian Criminal Court, when the police has finished the investigations after Austrian law. I believe they are not even half way through, and more people, more victims of rape or other pedophelic cruelties from Hr. Josef Fritzl will possibly come forward and give new evidence in the following weeks maybe even months, which in it´s own way is torture to herr Fritzl - So there will be no martyrdom for Herr Fritzl - wouldn´t ya say?

The Al Queda however, I would agree with you guys that in some parts of this world close to the Arabian counties in the Middle East, Osama bin Laden reached martymdom years ago, since he is still at large, which is why the entire coalition of 28 countries all went to Iraq in loyalty to the USA to catch him and bring him and his fanatic islamits to justice. According to the US intelligence, he was in Iraq blah, blah, blah. So we all left the Taliban in Afghanistan for a so far 5 years of hollidays, so they could recrute new terrorists without being desturbed by any western military forces. Due to the invation of Iraq, three months later, there were suddenly 60.000 new terrorists world wide according to 80 international anti-terror agencies - all of them possible martyrs? We created all of them, when we invaded the wrong country of Iraq.

About the death penalty and the middleaged torture towards being a believer in Christianity, it says in the 10 commandments "Thou shall not kill". I wrote about it earlier and why the democratical EU, Muza possibly and I personally will not reimplement the death penalty or torture for that matter. They are both of them methods that belong to the past time history, France 1789 and further back to the days of the famous Roman Catholic Church punishment system - the Court of the Inquisition, including long time heavy torture and loss of life at the fire in full public in front of the church or the Town Hall or the Queen of England´s palace, to show the common population how the Catholic Church punished the lower ranking believers and common citizens, even some of their own prists was tortured and burned to death. Of course talking about pedophiles, the Roman Catholic Church has been a regular competitor to other pedophiles for the past thousand years. One scandal after the next, where the Pope all the way from Rome decided to cover it up - the Roman Catholic way.

But then again in the past the Roman Catholic Church was the power behind any political discission, they had full controle of the Royal families in all of Europe, and they could read and write to understand the scriptures, which no ordinary man nor woman could.

It´s a matter of principles of law. If we loosen up on principles of punishment to criminals, we might as well throw the entire system of the national criminal courts and any penal code system out the same way as with - the water of the baby. We have to show, that no matter what crime has been done, we can not alowe ourselves to stoop to the same inhuman eveil ways of the Middle Ages and those of Herr Josef Fritzl or the Al Queda - to act ourselves spontanously like we are the judges.

I hope for the children that they somehow can live on, and don´t feel any whatsoever shame nor guilt.

If you guys remember the Stockholm Syndrom, entitled after a kidnapping of the staff in a bank in Sweden - Clark Olofsson was the main controling person in this kidnapping. In this crime, the prisoners in the bank, turned to defend their enemy their captures Clark Olofsson and his gang against the police, because he more or less hypnotised all the victims to support him.

I hope the victims of Josef Fritzl will receive all the care they have never had, so they will never feel sorry for Herr Josef Fritzl and defend him, who has to be convicted to life imprisonment in total isolation under the supervision of psyciatrists and other scientific personel, to study him like we study animals at the ZOO - IMHO. But then again, I am not the judge either.
 
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methodistgirl

New member
There was news today about another nutcase.:rolleyes::shake: This guy was on a
Grayhound bus when he stabbed the person next to him. I don't
remember what happened afterwords. This bus was in Canada on it's
way to New York. The driver didn't stop the bus until he heard this
blood curling scream. Maybe someone else was able to read more.
judy tooley
 
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