• Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.

    This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.

    As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.

    In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.

    (Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)

    Many kind regards
    smile.gif

    Frederik Magle
    Administrator

    Krummhorn
    Co-Administrator

Organ for a small church.

praestant

New member
Hey everyone! My church seats about 220 people and I've wanted a pipe organ for years. We currently have a Rodgers 751, which is nice, but just isn't the real thing. Here is a stoplist I've come up with that I believe would be perfect, but what do you think? The church has nice acoustics, and very little carpet. P.S. the parish council would never agree to buy a pipe organ, because "no one can tell the difference."

19 Stops 20 Ranks 1181 Pipes 4 Transmissions 5 Extensions

Great: Manual I Unexpressive 7 Ranks 439 Pipes

16 Gedackt (TC) (From 8’)
8 Principal (Façade)
8 Gedackt (73 Pipes)
4 Octave
4 Gedackt (From 8’)
2 2/3 Quint
2 Super Octave
III Mixture (2 2/3’) (Uses Quint as lowest rank)
8 Trompette (Swell)
8 Oboe (Swell)

Great to Great 16 4
Swell to Great 16 8 4

Swell: Manual II Expressive 10 Ranks 610 Pipes

16 Salicional (TC) (From 8’)
8 Geigen Principal (73 Pipes)
8 Salicional
8 Unda Maris (TC) (49 Pipes)
8 Bourdon
4 Geigen Octave (From 8’)
4 Harmonic Flute
2 2/3 Nazard
2 Forest Flute
1 3/5 Tierce
II Sesquialtera (From Nazard and Tierce)
16 Trompette (TC) (From 8’)
8 Trompette
8 Oboe

Tremulant

Swell to Swell 16 4

Pedal: Unexpressive 3 Ranks 132 Pipes

32 Resultant (From Violone and Subbass)
16 Violone (44 Pipes)
16 Subbass (44 Pipes)
8 Violoncello (From 16’)
8 Bourdon (From 16’)
4 Gedackt (Great)
16 Trombone (44 Pipes)
8 Tromba (From 16’)
8 Trompette (Swell)
 

methodistgirl

New member
That sounds pretty impressive for a small church organ. The pipe
organ at my church has 24 ranks. Which company are you thinking
about who makes these pipe organ. The one at my church was
built by Wicks. Also, welcome to the forum.
judy tooley
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Hi praestant,

20 rks for a 220 seater ... well, that would make for a very versatile instrument. In my own church, we have a 9 rk for a 252 seater that fills the room fairly adequately with completely dead acoustics.

Your specification looks very complete ... I do believe, that the parish council would hear a difference if your were able to do a side-by-side comparison. With today's technology, one can make a digital recording of different instruments that would certainly illustrate the huge differences between the existing organ and a pure pipe organ.
 

praestant

New member
Hey Krummhorn. 9 ranks would be alright...but I would rather not have that much borrowing. I thought about all the borrowing and transmissions I put into the stoplist for quite a while, and feel that the organ would sound less unified. I also like the way I designed the pedal. Only one transmission. Too often these days, organ builders put all the 16's from the manuals in the pedal too. But it's ridiculous because they were BUILT and VOICED for the manuals. I also find that in many practice "unit" organs, the mutations and higher pitches sound disgusting. That is why I had mine as real ranks.

I wish the parish council would consider a pipe organ. It's a small town, with a small church, with the attitude of "it's good enough." Well it's not good enough. I wish people stop and think for a second and realize that centuries ago, people spent their money on the church; on glorious buildings and organs to glorify God. Nowadays, people are less interested in church and traditional music. What a shame.
 

praestant

New member
Hey Judy. I don't know what organ builder I would choose. If my church had the money for it, and the company was willing, I would definitely choose Schoenstein. If my church didn't have that kind of money, I would probably go with Schantz or Reuter. No offense to you or your church...but I would never choose Wicks. Their consoles are cheaply made. "If it sputters, whistles, and clicks, it must be a WICKS!"
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
praestant - that's a nice dream, I'd be a bit dubious about the 32' resultant, however, I find resultants toothless and unfocussed. I'd probably off-set that by an a 4' pedal reed stop, but your choice is great. I've not heard of a Rogers 751, digital, I'm must look it up. I only know Makin (which I think are excellent) digital organs.
 

methodistgirl

New member
I would hate to bust your bubble but the wicks organ at my church
sounds great and makes no noise. It's new practically.
judy tooley
 

praestant

New member
Hey ContraTrombone. I agree that some resultants are awful. But, I know what I want to hear when I pull the stop, and I feel that if the builder had that in mind, they could produce a successful stop.

Rodgers Instruments, in my opinion, are the best producers of digital organs in the world, save for Walker. But who wants to pay for a Walker? If you want to hear recordings of the instrument, visit my YouTube page. www.youtube.com/brestull. The sound is kind of poor because of the camera I used to record, but I've found that if you use headphones, it's a lot more pleasant.

Cheers,
Brent
 

praestant

New member
All I'm saying is that Wicks are cheaply made. If your organ doesn't make noise now...it's because it's new. Just wait a few years.
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
OK - I tried to find Rogers homesite but unsuccessfull (mind you I only did a very quick trawl). I know that Makin organs sampel their sounds primarily from the wonderful monster at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral, I happen to think this is a glorious organ (and British obviuosly) and own many CDs featuring it's awesome and thunderous sounds.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear CT64,

Liverpool Metropolitain Cathedral??? Based on the Walker organ from 1967??? Are you sure its not the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral organ by Willis they use for samples?

Just curious....

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:




OK - I tried to find Rogers homesite but unsuccessfull (mind you I only did a very quick trawl). I know that Makin organs sampel their sounds primarily from the wonderful monster at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral, I happen to think this is a glorious organ (and British obviuosly) and own many CDs featuring it's awesome and thunderous sounds.
 
Top