The Greatest Symphony Ever ?
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Corno Dolce
Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Lets be nice to CT64 - he's had a hard day and needs to immerse himself in a Jacuzzi to relax and become reinvigorated. 
some guy
New member
If I understand Contratrombone64's position, it's nothing to do with whether Gorecki's 3rd is the greatest symphony ever, and everything to do with whether the words "greatest symphony ever" can mean anything.
Besides, as I pointed out early in this thread, "ever" isn't finished happening yet, and no one so far has had the temerity to claim to have listened to every symphony ever written. Every symphony written up to today, that is, tomorrow having more of that "ever" stuff continuing to go on.
So even if "greatest" had any meaning beyond "what I (and maybe some of my friends) like the most," there would still be these other two things going on to make "greatest symphony ever" an empty collection of vocables. As for "what I et cetera," don't you think that anyone who's listened to dozens symphonies, from dozens of different decades, will probably not be able to pick just one favorite.
I'm sure about one thing, I do know what my favorite Franck symphony is. And my favorite Bizet and Wagner, too. And I'll bet that my favorite Bizet symphony is also Contratrombone64's favorite Bizet symphony. Just sayin'.
Besides, as I pointed out early in this thread, "ever" isn't finished happening yet, and no one so far has had the temerity to claim to have listened to every symphony ever written. Every symphony written up to today, that is, tomorrow having more of that "ever" stuff continuing to go on.
So even if "greatest" had any meaning beyond "what I (and maybe some of my friends) like the most," there would still be these other two things going on to make "greatest symphony ever" an empty collection of vocables. As for "what I et cetera," don't you think that anyone who's listened to dozens symphonies, from dozens of different decades, will probably not be able to pick just one favorite.
I'm sure about one thing, I do know what my favorite Franck symphony is. And my favorite Bizet and Wagner, too. And I'll bet that my favorite Bizet symphony is also Contratrombone64's favorite Bizet symphony. Just sayin'.
Check the link in my post.
Well, I have listened to hundreds of symphonies (repeatedly), and I can pick out a top 3 easily even in sequence.
1. Schubert's unfinished
2. Mahler's 4th
3. Bruckner's 9th
Can I have missed one that would end up in that top 3 had I heard it? Possibly, but not likely. I have heard most/all symphonies of all major names (Haydn and Mozart not complete - unsurprisingly), and a lot of symphonies by less famous composers.
Contratrombone64
Admiral of Fugues
Alrighty, here are some I would add to the list of works already mentioned in this thread (I love all those ones too.)
Shostakovich No.5
Franck d minor
Sibelius (oh geez, I've forgotten the number. Well, they're pretty much all great.)
William Walton No.1. A recent discovery for me.
Nielsen's symphonies are on my 'to check out' list; I may already have heard
one or more of them, can't remember.
Hey zoned, there's a birthday message for you in the community centre!
Miss ROJO -!! Hey sweety, hope you're OK. The Nielsen symphonies are probably my favourite symphonies, or at least ones I never tire of. Especially the rarely performed 3rd, which has the most amazing opening. It's very difficult to tell what the time signature is (of course until the main theme occurs).
Contratrombone64
Admiral of Fugues
I agree with you about Franck, Bizet, Wagner ... one hit wonders when it comes to symphonies. But all three of them I like for very different reasons. The Bizet - in particular, has such exhuberance and wit as to be painful in its simplicity. I remember playing it with an absolute pig of a conductor once, he drill the strings on the passage work in the 1st and 4th movements (difficult stuff to get togther cleanly, for sure). But at the end, we gave an inspired performance that went like clock work. The Franck symphony in d minor, is also one I'm very, very fond of and have played. The Wagner, I only know because I've listened to it, sadly never played it.
My final thoughts on this, if I had to choose ONE Mozart symphony for a Desert Island, it would (for me) be the Jupiter.
some guy
New member
Check the link in my post.
How the hell did I miss that? Pffft. So much for being Mr. Smarty-pants, hein?
Well well well. So I was giving you more credit than you wanted. Fine. I'll take it back, then! And we know nothing, from this, about Schubert, Mahler, or Bruckner. As interesting as I'm sure you are, on a classical forum surely Schubert, Mahler, and Bruckner are more interesting than any of their listeners. That's my point.
Since it has to be asked, I might as well ask it now, do you listen to any symphonies written after 1901?
rojo
(Ret)
Well, I'm guilty of having used the term 'greatest' on one occasion 'round here that I clearly recall. And I haven't felt the need to take it back, even though I realize the term 'greatest' is entirely subjective. And no, it was not in reference to Muhammad Ali.
I do use the term 'all time' and I guess I shouldn't; but I think peeps realize one is not able to include the works of the future in one's appraisals, and that it pretty much means 'up until now'. But in your honour, I'm going to switch over to 'up 'til now', or possibly 'so far', just to at least avoid any possible confusion regarding future works. I'm actually fairly confident to leave it at that, and not add 'that I have listened to' in front of the 'so far.'I'm fine, thanks CT64
Unless I shouldn't be because I can't recall the Nielsen pieces? That could be true. :crazy:Just to get back to the composers, besides the Brahms No.1 Art mentioned, I'm also quite partial to the other three Brahms' as well. And the Colour Symphony by Arthur Bliss.
Some guy- Naw, you're still Mr. Smarty-pants, in general. :grin:
Lots. All Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Nielsen, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Walton, Arnold, Alwyn, Tippett, Gorecki, Martinu, Lilburn, for instance. Selected symphonies by Saalinen, Rautavaara, Holmboe, Tubin, Schnittke, Hanson, Schuman, Harris, Maxwell Davies, to name a few.
some guy
New member
Thanks Art Rock for the list. I was pretty sure you'd mentioned post 1901 symphonies before, but I wasn't up for ferreting them out. (Not that symphonies are like bunnies, of course.) I noticed that you had Bill Schuman on your short list there. Do you know Sessions and Searle, too?
As for YOU, miss rojo, you can always make me grin. I'm so glad you've adopted "up until now" for "ever." (But Muhammad Ali is the greatest. Ever!)
As for YOU, miss rojo, you can always make me grin. I'm so glad you've adopted "up until now" for "ever." (But Muhammad Ali is the greatest. Ever!)
some guy
New member
Art Rock, I ask because I recently went on a Schuman binge, having only had the 10th and In Praise of Shahn, which was for a long time my first and only Schuman.
I also acquired Searle and Sessions and Nørholm around the same time, a spree that was preceded by a Wellesz, Krenek, Nørgård orgy.
And I was wondering if you'd had a similar experience with Schuman to mine. (I now have Schuman's Symphony for strings and numbers 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9, too, plus some smaller things, including Judith.)
Anyway, as far as recommendations go, I've had the most success with Francis Dhomont's Frankenstein Symphony. At least four people have listened to that and then bought it on my say so. Well, on my say so and on their liking what they listened to, of course.
Rojo might be interested in that. Dhomont made it by sewing together snippets from dozens of other works, of students and colleagues of his and of pieces of his own--hence the title. And while it's fun to listen to it and be able to say "that's Gobeil" or "that's Calon" from time to time, it's not at all necessary to know any of the sources. I knew only a few when I first heard it. (If you like it, it's a good way to get acquainted with a lot of music by a lot of different people, as the insert lists every piece that Dhomont used.)
I also acquired Searle and Sessions and Nørholm around the same time, a spree that was preceded by a Wellesz, Krenek, Nørgård orgy.
And I was wondering if you'd had a similar experience with Schuman to mine. (I now have Schuman's Symphony for strings and numbers 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9, too, plus some smaller things, including Judith.)
Anyway, as far as recommendations go, I've had the most success with Francis Dhomont's Frankenstein Symphony. At least four people have listened to that and then bought it on my say so. Well, on my say so and on their liking what they listened to, of course.
Rojo might be interested in that. Dhomont made it by sewing together snippets from dozens of other works, of students and colleagues of his and of pieces of his own--hence the title. And while it's fun to listen to it and be able to say "that's Gobeil" or "that's Calon" from time to time, it's not at all necessary to know any of the sources. I knew only a few when I first heard it. (If you like it, it's a good way to get acquainted with a lot of music by a lot of different people, as the insert lists every piece that Dhomont used.)
Rune Vejby
Commodore of Water Music
Art Rock, you seem very much into orchestral music, so maybe I can ask you a small question I have never been interested in major orchestral works but that has changed lately - especially after listening to Gorecki's 3rd. So I would like to listen to his other symphonic works as well. I have heard that his 3rd symphony is very different - in terms of artistic expression and style - than his other works. Is that true? And are there any recordings of his 1st and 2nd symphonies that you can recommend? Thank you!
Btw. I am sorry if this post is considered off-topic!
I have never been interested in major orchestral works but that has changed lately - especially after listening to Gorecki's 3rd. So I would like to listen to his other symphonic works as well. I have heard that his 3rd symphony is very different - in terms of artistic expression and style - than his other works. Is that true? And are there any recordings of his 1st and 2nd symphonies that you can recommend? Thank you! Btw. I am sorry if this post is considered off-topic!
Gorecki's third is indeed very different from his other works - as far as I heard them, which is six CD's in my collection. Apart from the third symphony with Dawn Upshaw, I have:
Kleines Requiem fuer eine Polka/Harpsichord concerto/Good night (Nonesuch)
Probably my second favourite Gorecki CD. The first piece has bewildering speed changes, the harpsichord concerto is short (under 9 min) but fun, and the closing Good Night is beautiful and sports my favourite soprano Dawn Upshaw (also on Sym3).
Old Polish music/Totus Tuus/Beatus Vir (argo)
I really need to play this one again as I am drawing a blank in my memory.
Miserere/Amen/Euntes ibant et flebant etc (nonesuch)
I really need to play this one again as I am drawing a blank in my memory.
Already it is dusk (SQ1)/Lerchenmusik (nonesuch)
Interesting works, the SQ performed by the Kronos.
Sonata for 2 violins/Genesis I/SQ 1+2 (Olympia)
A good introduction to his chamber music.
Apparently I do not have his first two symphonies. I know that there is a Naxos recording of the second though - this label usually has decent performances for very low prices.
Well, two Gorecki CD's go on the "to play" pile, and one Naxos CD on the "to buy" list. Thanks!
Kleines Requiem fuer eine Polka/Harpsichord concerto/Good night (Nonesuch)
Probably my second favourite Gorecki CD. The first piece has bewildering speed changes, the harpsichord concerto is short (under 9 min) but fun, and the closing Good Night is beautiful and sports my favourite soprano Dawn Upshaw (also on Sym3).
Old Polish music/Totus Tuus/Beatus Vir (argo)
I really need to play this one again as I am drawing a blank in my memory.
Miserere/Amen/Euntes ibant et flebant etc (nonesuch)
I really need to play this one again as I am drawing a blank in my memory.
Already it is dusk (SQ1)/Lerchenmusik (nonesuch)
Interesting works, the SQ performed by the Kronos.
Sonata for 2 violins/Genesis I/SQ 1+2 (Olympia)
A good introduction to his chamber music.
Apparently I do not have his first two symphonies. I know that there is a Naxos recording of the second though - this label usually has decent performances for very low prices.
Well, two Gorecki CD's go on the "to play" pile, and one Naxos CD on the "to buy" list. Thanks!
Contratrombone64
Admiral of Fugues
I've just been listening to a 20th century symphony that is almost NEVER heard, sadly as it's monumental in construction, granite like in texture, and full of typical contrapuntal tricks: Hindemith's glorious Symphony in E flat
Contratrombone64
Admiral of Fugues
I might just try and get acquainted with his other symphonic music, in that case because his Third bores me to tears (but that's just personal, please don't take offence.)
Rune Vejby
Commodore of Water Music
True true - there will always be new (and old) music to explore!
Thanks alot for the information, Art Rock. I will head down to the library soon and have a look at which CD's are available
Contratrombone64
Admiral of Fugues
Rune - this has been a fascinating thread, I need to open my eyes (well ears actually) to much more 20th/21st century music I guess.
zoned
New member
Well not much beats Howard Hansons 1(nordic),2(romantic),and 3 for true beauty. Barbers symphonies are gems. Glazunov is underrated. Lazslo lajhta,hungarian,wrote some intriguiging stuff.Korgold's symphony contains an awe-inspiring adagio based on a mere 3 not theme.And,more conventional,Bruckners 7th contains one of the most profound adagios ever written,in my opinion!