True believers are murderers, according to some

[Brabo]

Originally Posted by Brabo
On the 17th August 2008, JHC wrote, "Science is not infallible but it attempts to provide proof through observation".

So does faith, methinks..!

Brabo

JHC replied, OK, I am interested, please give an example[/quote]

Simple, really, faith is a matter of believing without seeing (as in the story of Thomas meeting the Risen Lord). Faith is, however, not infallible (nothing, or indeed no-one is - despite the familiar noises from Rome). Faith also attempts to seek for any proof that may back up such faith for it to confirm it. For many folk, simply looking around, observing, and being open to what is around us, often confirms such a faith. This is, incidentally, also true for those whom seek after religious or faith-matters' truth to back up their faith. It is human to want proof and/or confirmation. Real faith, however, will be able to survive also without any such proof.

Brabo

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Brabo,

Welcome aboard! Please do make yourself feel right at home and stay for a spell.

"Blessed are they who believe, yet not seen."

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[JHC]

Aloha J.H.C.

By what you have shared that man is only to survive and reproduce you leave room for little else that signifies a betterment of the human race. In other words, I interpret what you say to be that it is alright to be rapacious in one's consumption and not carefully manage, cultivate, and nurture that which is around us.

Not so, All Creatures are programmed for survival that is the first priority, all the rest is to make life safer and secure and if we can enjoyable, we have developed “Society” but to live in this society we have to make rules that will be for the benefit of that Society, unfortunately man has a few traits that do not sit well with this concept and we have different ideas about how society should manages, you have your ideas and I have mine

Surely, that must not be your intention, eh? Think about it: Survive and Reproduce - just like an animal.

Well that is exactly what we do although we are developing other methods

We can certainly have animalistic tendencies but we are born with a brain for doing things that animals can't. Center of the Universe? Nawww!...Alone? Yes!

What on earth makes you believe that we are alone, are you serious or jesting?

Anyway, there is more to life than just survive and reproduce.

I quite agree but without it there is nothing else,

Re my question: Why do we have to have a spiritual task?
In your post #55 you say:
Good points you bring to the table. Now then, since a human is doomed to die, his task on earth evidently must be of a more spiritual nature.I questioned this because you are saying must and spiritual What is Spiritual?You go on to say:
It cannot be unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. Unrestrained no, IMHO every day is a gift and should be enjoyed
It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it. Again you are presenting your point of view [and that is fine] but you are saying “it has to be”

What then does humanity base its moral standards on? Things just don't happen by themselves even though there are legions of scientists and humanists trying to persuade people that just such is the case. I do not follow this at all.


CD [/quote]

 

[JHC]

Originally Posted by Brabo
On the 17th August 2008, JHC wrote, "Science is not infallible but it attempts to provide proof through observation".

So does faith, methinks..!

Brabo

JHC replied, OK, I am interested, please give an example

Simple, really, faith is a matter of believing without seeing (as in the story of Thomas meeting the Risen Lord). Faith is, however, not infallible (nothing, or indeed no-one is - despite the familiar noises from Rome). Faith also attempts to seek for any proof that may back up such faith for it to confirm it. For many folk, simply looking around, observing, and being open to what is around us, often confirms such a faith. This is, incidentally, also true for those whom seek after religious or faith-matters' truth to back up their faith. It is human to want proof and/or confirmation. Real faith, however, will be able to survive also without any such proof.

Brabo[/quote]
Brabo You say “Faith is believing without seeing“, This is what has been called Blind Faith earlier in the post, I agree with this. You also say “Faith also attempts to seek for any proof that may back up such faith” How do you do this?
We may be at cross purposes here

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha J.H.C.

I'm so sorry that you got so hung up on my statement *It has to be* - My bad

When I used the reference *spiritual* I meant that which is outside of ourselves - that which is not sentient but that which transcends matter, time, and space.

Might I ask if there is there is no place in your mind for a faith system? If so then, what takes the place of faith/belief?

Quoth Aristotle: *Nature abhors a vacuum.*

If you remove the idea of a faith/belief system, something will move in to fill that void. Now I bring in an example of non-faith/belief: Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical goals, it must rule over a non-religious and non-national populace. It requires that both faith and nation be destroyed.

Cheerio,

Corno Dolce

ps. I believe that in the Universe we are alone. The Eternal One has created the proper conditions for carbon-based life-forms to survive. And we are living on that planet. I take it on faith that we are alone. But being scientifically minded I gladly use the tools of Math and Physics to explore further. Faith and Science are not mutually exclusive. To dogmatically defend such is a risible enterprise.

pps. Can you then prove to me that we are not alone?

 

[JLS]

tsk tsk, CD. For a person as otherwise intelligent and thoughtful as you to make so many completely unfounded claims and assumptions is saddening to me.

 

[Contratrombone64]

I think this thread, that I started innocently enough has reached its use-by-date, do you agree?

 

[Corno Dolce]

Deleted!

 

[Corno Dolce]

Deleted!

 

[sunwaiter]

too bad some spirits get a little upset, or at least not taken seriously.

as for me, i don't think this thread has reached its use-by-date.

i don't think we're alone in the universe, and corno thinks we are. so what? nobody gets hurt here, and that's what i like and always hope for when people start to communicate their opinions, thoughts, beliefs, etc. i BELIEVE there is room for all kinds of these believes, no matter how and why they started to be.

one point is essential to me: as long as there are people who doubt, there is hope of understanding. if some day we get all wiped out by E.T.'s, so be it. if some day we destroy our own planet ourselves, so be it ( but yeah, that would be really a shame ). if some day we find out that yes, we are alone, that there is a god, i am willing to accept it. the problem is not the answers. the problem is always the questions.

 

[Corno Dolce]

I return to this thread after a good cold shower and a passionate interlude with my lady. You're right sunwaiter - we all have other views - thats the true beauty of this forum. Sometimes we discover ourselves, sometimes we don't recognise ourselves - Move on as life moves on and don't take yourself too seriously.

Thanx bruddah....

CD

 

[sunwaiter]

did you say/write BrUDDAH? i'll take this as a compliment but above all, as a sign of friendship. the only community i like is brotherhood ( i mean uh, mankind ), without any physical or intellectual frontier. i might not still be sending posts here in some time, and i might be forgotten completely, but it doesn't matter. and you sure know why.

thx.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha sunwaiter,

The door is always open, the fires of warmth are always burning, and there will always be someone to welcome and chat with you. There supposedly once was a priest on the isle of Iceland - His name was Hallgrimur Petursson - He was widely known for his friendliness and open-door policy - He had a saying: "There are only two places where the fires are constantly burning - Hell and my house." Supposedly, his name first name is honored by its use for naming the biggest Church on Iceland - Hallgrimskirkja:

http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/church-of-hallgrimur-reykjavik-isl110.jpg

Cheerio,

CD

 

[sunwaiter]

too bad the link doesn't work. anyway i got it, thanks. i like mr Petursson's saying.

black sabbath - orchid

 

[JLS]

Did I offend, Corno Dolce? I honestly didn't intend to. Just being a little provocative. I logged on this morning to find two deleted posts from you, and a comment that would imply that you were upset. If that was in response to me, then I apologize. If not, then ignore this post!

:cheers:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha JLS,

I was a little full of myself earlier. It was cleared up by some words of love from my Lady and some forethought by sunwaiter. I should apologise - please accept my apology for being contentious. I humbly accept yours.

Cheerio,

CD

 

[JLS]

Aloha JLS,

I was a little full of myself earlier.

Bah! Happens to me all the time.

It was cleared up by some words of love from my Lady and some forethought by sunwaiter. I should apologise - please accept my apology for being contentious. I humbly accept yours.

Cheerio,

CD

I accept your apology, though I don't find it necessary. Honest contention is integral to the dialectic. Nothing kills a good debate like agreeableness!

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha JLS,

I do quite agree with your premise about agreeableness being a debate killer. The fine edge between honest contention and pissing contests is sometimes thinner than a razor blade. Methinks we know each other now as forum acquaintances just a little more than yesterday - hopefully in a positive sense.

Cheerio,

CD

 

[JLS]

The fine edge between honest contention and pissing contests is sometimes thinner than a razor blade.

I assure you, CD, I have never here engaged in the latter. Check out the personality types thread I just started and maybe you'll understand me a bit better. Well enough, at least, to preclude further misunderstandings...

 

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha JLS,

You're one cool dude in my book.

Cheerio,

CD