What happened to Discipline?

marval

New member
Hi Intet

Welcome to the same page as Stephen and me.

I agree, it is definately time Bush went, I think every country needs a leader who understands the basic needs of ordinary people. Our Prime Minister Brown lives in a free house, earns loads of money and doesn't have to worry where his next meal is comming from.

But back on topic, I agree with Stephen that people should have to prove they can be resposible parents. A lot of the trouble on the streets over here are caused by very young children some as young as ten, where are the parents? Where were they when the children needed to be taught right from wrong, and to respect the elderly and disabled? If young children are caught doing a crime they should be punished but, so should their parents. In Redruth, a small town in Cornwall they have got a curfew on one estate, this is where children under 16 are not allowed on the streets after 10 o'clock. Well when I was a child my parents would not have let me be on the streets at that time, (good girl that I was, I was probably in bed.)

So I am afraid there is a severe lack of disipline, which needs to be brought back quickly. And the parents should have the right to punish if need be, and the teachers.


Margaret
 

greatcyber

New member
This is all so true and so sad at the same time. Where ARE the parents? Off at work or playing tennis with the girls. In the states they refer to these young kids that are left home alone in the afternoon as "latch key kids." Why didn't their parents think about the needs of their upbringing before they decided to have them? Is career more important than child rearing? It's totally absurd and I believe it a form of child abuse.

A child should be allowed to be disciplined by parents and teachers (even corporal punishment) when deemed appropriate. When a parent DOESN'T discipline, then the parent should be fined, punished or perhaps have their children taken away from them.

There is a programme in the states called Super Nanny on the tellie where an experienced nanny goes into "troubled" homes where there are discipline problems (read no discipline). They think this is entertainment in America. It only shows that "political correctness" has gone way too far. Pity the children.

They showed a teen who was a real snot and a behaviour problem that was swearing at her parents, just like in the video and the kid said "if you hit me, I'll call the authorities." Well, fine. Then the state can take them and put them in a group home...do they really think they will have it any better?

Raising children is a challenge, I know, but that is something an ADULT should take into consideration before becoming a parent. Perhaps parenting classes should be added in school along with sex ed. Oops, that's right; you can't even teach the truth about sex ed in the states, thanks to junior, dubya or just stupid (as I prefer to name him).

Boy, pets are looking better all the time!

Stephen
soapbox.gif
 

marval

New member
Ah yes, Jo Frost, Super Nanny, she started over here. A very no nonsense lady, with her naughty step. She is very good though, I used to be a nanny so I understand where she is comming from. I never stood any nonsense from the children, hopefully they were all the better for it.

Yes stick to pets, mind you if they said something rude to you
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you wouldn't know.


Margaret
 

methodistgirl

New member
Here in my neck of the woods there are kids and even young adults
that will cuss you out in a heartbeat and talk to you like a dog. If
I did that to my parents I would be spitting out some teeth after I
got back slapped. Some people act like they are scared of their kids.
Then again I have seen the child welfare people stick their noses
where it didn't belong because the parent did use discipline. The govern-
ment needs to but out and take care of their own business.
judy tooley
 

Emmery

New member
Kids get their direction from many sources these days and if you look at all the violent video games, bully behavior in school, parents with no input in their upbringing, its no wonder they turn out to be what they are. I think that every child should be taken to a 3rd world country for a week to see people dying from lack of things these children take for granted. Next, they should spend a week in an old age home to see how and where we all end up (if we are fortunate). Next, they need a week in jail, to learn why we should strive to stay out of it. Finally, a trip to Indonesia, where you get 10 whacks on each of your bare feet with a cane, for spitting gum on the sidewalk, or spraying graffiti on a public place. Perspective is what they lack, first and foremost, and a lack of direct accountability for their actions follows closely behind. People ask me why I have no kids and I promptly answer, "I couldn't sleep at night worrying about the stuff they get into"
 

methodistgirl

New member
I agree 100%. When I was a kid I was the rebellious type when I became
a teenager. I even tried teenage sex. Man was that stupid. Thanks to
this stubborn body and thank goodness I didn't get into trouble like some
young girls with an unwanted child. Oh when my parents found out.
It felt like Judgment day.
judy tooley
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
I wonder what Krummhorn would say about this video? judy tooley

Firstly, that first video was "fabricated" ... Obviously, there were two video cameras being used ... how else could "Mommy" have had her face (while holding the camera) also be photographed. And then the camera gets placed on the floor in "perfect position" to capture the mom helping the cable man? Uhuh ... Just what we need is more video violence on top of what the movie industry is producing lately.

The parent posting that video on YouTube is, imho, just as bad as the kid who is using the foul language. We don't get enough of this crap everyday and most everywhere we go these days that now a parent has to "queue" their child into saying bad words into a video camera, and then feeling compelled to upload it into a public space?

If that had been real life, the kid would not have had a second chance to say those words again, let alone on tape. She said something like "wait until your father gets home ..." which is totally wrong. If mommy can't handle the situation when it occurs and has to video tape it AND wait for daddy to handle it later, then she is seriously lacking parental control.

Of course, when daddy gets home after being gone all day long, and having possibly endured a hard day at work, before he can even grab a cold brew or remove his shoes, he is then immediately thrust into this "situation" and forced to deal with a situation that the mommy refused to handle or deal with earlier.

When the punishment is given, the daddy takes the hit for it, and mommy comes out of the "situation" smelling like a rose and then offers comfort to the child, making daddy look like a total boob. I can see that marriage is heading for the rocks.

Mommy should have taken the kids sunglasses away, took her cell phone, iPod (Etc) and sent the obviously spoiled brat to her room ... before running for the camera.

I'll bet he's all for discipline when it is called for. You would think that most "sane" people would be...or should be.
Stephen

You bet I am, Stephen ... I learned the hard way and spent many hours standing in a corner cause my rear was so sore and red that I couldn't sit down. But you know what? I never ever again made that same mistake again - I was not "rewarded" (like the brat in the video) for my wrong doings ... punishment was instantaneous. We didn't have the internet, mobile phones, iPods ... our punishment consisted of time constraints on various things - no swimming in the backyard pool for a week, no friends over or going to a friends house for a week, it was go to school, come home, do homework, eat dinner and be sent to your room. It drove the point home very quickly.

Thanks to today society, parents can no longer invoke reasonable physical punishment ... and I think that is totally wrong. All the kid has to do these days is call 911 and the parents are thrown into jail, and the kid removed to a foster home ... that's totally wrong, too.

Ok, there are kids that are purposely being abused by very sick people ... and the laws are trying to protect those kids and I am all in favor of that ... but in a respectable family unit, the parents need to have more lateral control in order to establish healthy relationships.
 

marval

New member
I agree that video was fabricated and very uneccessary, I don't know if someone thought it was funny to make that. Instant punishment is what is needed. My husband is one of triplets, when they were young they would act up. My mother-in-law was told to fill the kitchen sink with cold water and sit them in it, that stopped them, they didn't do that again.


Margaret
 

drummergirlamie

New member
Behavior like this stems from poor discipline instruction early on. It's disgustingly too often the case that a couple of sorts lay down together to make a child for themselves without preparing for the task ahead. "I want a baby", is far too often said. How many times have you heard one say something to the effect, "I wonder how our child could benefit this world"?
 

C5Says

New member
We come back to the question, which comes first: reality depicted by Hollywood or Hollywood mimicked by reality?

There are 6 of us siblings and we all attended church since infancy. During toddler years we were trained to stay quiet during church services. A little noise that reaches the ears of our mom sitting nearby will automatically make her fingers snap as a warning for us to stay quiet. It worked! We were not spared the rod. We were trained in the days of our youth so when we grow old we will not depart from it. Aren't those foolproof proverbs? Now, my husband, wanting to beat my mom's system, would joke that if it took my mom just a snap of her fingers to make her kids quiet, it only took his stare. :D

I think it's too much TV, movies and internet that's causing much of the problem. Both parents away for work without any to guide the kids at home. My eldest was 4 months when I resigned even though I had the bigger income. I didn't want my mom to be overburndened by taking care of my kid. During her time she was a superwoman and no kid of hers can say that it can't be done because she did it during her time. :D The issue is moral standards...how are we taking it? The world as a whole is failing.
 

sunwaiter

New member
i think tv, internet or whatever media you can think of has nothing to do with how kids are today.

i assume that tv can be an influence concerning vulgarisation of violence for very young children, for example, but what matters first is what parents do. i've grown in a project inhabited with about 90 percent of maghreb migrants' children. many people point these people as crooks and encourage racism because they don't want to know the real causes. and the young is always the easiest target, even when they were born in france. remember that I grew up in the same place than them. i lived in the same tenement than my best friend B., whose family is from algeria. he never caused any problem, he was very good at school, actually way better than me. We watched exactly the same tv programs, we learned the same dirty words, we looked at the same girls, we met the same not too recommendable people, and still we were quiet little boys. he didn't even have his mother home.

some other parents in the neighbourhood did not watch carefully over their children, sometimes it was a real shame. i did saw unbearable things made by children of my age, but who seemed as vicious as grown up criminals. it was NOT tv, it was their parents who let them do.

i'm currently helping two children, at my modest scale, with french lessons, and since i've been around for a long time now, i can tell that their parents are quite lost. i mean, they're gentle people, and the kids are cute, but they just don't know what to do, which direciton to go, which sanction for wich misbehaviour, yelling or slapping, etc...

actually every parents find it difficult to raise a child, but some have more trouble than others. my parents were tough at times, and very patient at other times. i saw torture, killing, humiliation, hardcore se x, all sorts of things i woul never do myself, on tv, on computers, on dvds, at the movies, and i'm proud to say i never hit anyone, never lacked respect for any woman nor robbed anyone either.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
My grandfather was a prison warder for over 20 years in the early 1900s, he was a well built man, one of his duties was to administer floggings with the birch; he said nobody came back for a second dose.

Detentions in school don't hurt, the cane did; "sanctions" are useless, stay in their room with no TV or playstation - OK they'll go to sleep. Paddle their backside good, they migh listen next time.

Cheers MIKE
 

marval

New member
Hi Mike,

I agree if you give someone a good caning, they will remember it well. Detention or deprivation have no lasting effect at all.

Punishment should be harsh as a deterrent, we should make sure that they will not want to came back for more. And also hopefully they will spread the word that misbehaving is not worth it, because the punishment is much worse.


Margaret
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
. . . I would have gotten the belt when
I was fifteen. judy tooley

I did get the belt in my youth years ... I feel now that the pain was worse for my Dad than it was for me. I'm probably a better person for having being disciplined in the manner of which was acceptable in those years past.

Those were good old fashioned value days - once we got the belt, we never ever stepped out of bounds on that issue again. Now, we can barely tap them on the shoulder and kindly say "no-no ... please don't to that!" If parents today do anything else, the child simply has to call 911 and the parent is immediately arrested and put in jail. That's wrong - completely wrong - IMHO.

Some of the rowdies of today know that they can't be punished for any wrong-doings, so there is virtually no way to stop them from being spoiled little brats. I think I had more respect for my Dad after the punishment, which would include going without dinner sometimes ... and the interesting thing is that I lived through it all ... I wasn't psychologically affected by the punishment nor was I physically harmed in any way. I was simply taught a lesson via the "pain management" method and I think I'm a better person today because of this.

Punishment is one thing ... child abuse is another ... they are two different things, imho. When I was punished, my rear end was sore and I couldn't sit down for a couple hours ... that wasn't abuse ... it was a punishment - something that I all too remembered and thought about twice if I was ever tempted to do the same wrong, which I never did.
 

SilverLuna

New member
Now I'm 13 years old but i seriously do agree with you.

When i went to middle school last year, the kids were so unbeleiveable!! "*bleep* THIS and *bleep* THAT" UGH it was sooooo annoying!! >> People thought I was crazy not having a boyfriend! Gosh!! What do you expect guys?! I'm 12 years old!! (well at that time)

Oh and YOUTUBE.... goodness >> Can't there be a rule of no obscene ot sexual/foul language? Anyone, even little kids, can get on there and find something that can crush thier innocence.
My parents know all about this kind of stuff, so they'll never let me get an account.
 

jhnbrbr

New member
When i went to middle school last year, the kids were so unbeleiveable!! "*bleep* THIS and *bleep* THAT" UGH it was sooooo annoying!! >> .

Believe it or not, Silver, things were much the same when i started secondary school about 42 years ago. There was some pretty appalling behaviour at times, even though our headmaster was an enthusiastic user of the cane! Amost all children experienced corporal punishment in some form back then. I'm sure my behaviour was well above average, but I was smacked many times and occasionally punished with a slipper. It was just accepted as a normal part of life - probably less traumatic than going to the dentist. In our family, it fell to our mother to be the strict one, our father was far too soft-hearted to punish us. His only contribution to discipline was to have very large feet -there was always a size 12 slipper available when needed!
 
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