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Thread: Ban on religious music?

  1. #1
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso rojo's Avatar
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    Ban on religious music?

    No more performances of Handel's Messiah, nor Mozart's Requiem in China?
    Is it really Bjork's fault?
    Is Christianity good or bad for China?
    Why so many questions? Because I doubt anyone knows for sure...

    Apparently there has been what's termed in this article "a tightening of political control over the arts and Christianity."


    http://www.scena.org/brand/brand.asp...ous-music.html
    Last edited by rojo; Oct-03-2008 at 08:12. Reason: grammar
    ''Music, I feel, should be emotional first and intellectual second.'' - Maurice Ravel
    ''The greatest education in the world is watching the masters at work.'' - Michael Jackson


  2. #2
    Commodore con Forza
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    banning music can sound surreal, but i think i understand. let's say i just have a glimpse of an idea about it.

    in france we never get ( or otherwise i have not been informed ) to hear "sacred" or "religious" music, chants, etc from other confessions than the christian one, although there is a huge number of muslim people. there are lots of great performances of requiems and all sorts of beautiful music of that genre. but besides Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and maybe one or two other big oriental names, i don't know a thing about islamic music.

    i know some chinese people who are of buddhist tradition, and i understood that they don't see religion as we do. but i dont know china at all so i won't go further into speculation.

  3. #3
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    I guess I fail to see the brouhaha on the part of the Chinese in this ban ... just because a famous oratorio mentions the words "god", "lord of lords", or "king of kings", doesn't necessarily have to translate to any one supreme being. Realizing there are many religions whose "god" is different from another, China is "assuming" that the words "god - lord - king" are exclusively assigned to Christianity, which they are not.

    There are many gods, lords and kings in many parts of the world that are not always labeled as "Christian". However, religion is not the topic of this thread, so we should not dwell on the definition of one's personal beliefs, well, thats my humble thought anyway.

    Wonder if China will eventually ban all Classical music, since most of the composers were supposedly Christian people? That would never happen here in the US, or at least I think it wouldn't happen. It's just sad to see the Chinese people just sit there and take this without protesting - talk about "gods" ruling a country ... shameful.
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  4. #4
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    With 350 million Christians in China and growing, the Communists in Beijing are desperately trying to control a situation thats out of their control. Music is the Patrimony of all the world's people. Forbidding or banning music by JSBach doesn't make him anyless Christian. In my travels to China and seeing with my own eyes how the government tries to impose its *view*, the government only makes itself look all the more ridiculous and out of touch.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  5. #5
    Commodore con Forza
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    "ban on religious music?". this is the title of the thread. i guess our mate Rojo didn't do it so people can come here and tell us the truth about life, but religion is part of the topic.

    remember what Mao Tse Tung and people like him thought of religion? well, my opinion is slightly different but in the main lines, i do think we could live without it but i respect any belief, as long as it doesn't stop me from living peacefully and enjoying some sort of freedom. this is totally personal and i already said how i felt about it on another thread.

    so now what about music? cause you said it, ain't nothing but music that's been banned from china. paper with notes on it. i don't really know what to think, but as always i won't judge anybody on the basis of the very few things i know. it IS sad that people can't hear some good music because of some religiosity in it( which is absolutely undeniable ). as you also said lots of classical music composers were from the christian world. i guess the chinese deciders still hold on to Mao's precepts.

    but sometimes ( just for a short while... ) i'd like to turn into a chinese, an afghan, an iraqi to hear and see things differently.

    i love music and i'm disappointed that such things happen, but there are other issues that are so much important. what disappoints me in the christian world is for example the attitude of the US government while the New Orleans were being swept away by a hurricane; it is the way the french, belgian, english, dutch, etc have imposed their ways of life AND their RELIGION in all the countries they invaded, along taking all that could be taken off the land of course.

    i always had the greatest difficulties to understand why and how the afro-american, the black people of the US finally accepted bible's god as their own, when their grand grand parents didn't have any, or a so much different one, or maybe a hundred other idols back in africa. their god is white on the paintings, but that's not a problem, there is no color. to me it's just another proof of some sort of hope that human can accept and pardon others for forcing them to be a certain way. slavery's experience gave us Gospel music and all its affiliates in black american music, and it's a good thing.

    as for Chinese authorities, i don't think they represent the people of course, but i know a chinese person who was walking with me near the Basilique of Montmartre in Paris. that person had lived around that block for years and never went up the hill to enjoy the sight or to get closer to the basilique, which is a marvellous building located in a beautiful site. My friend was simply AFRAID of it. there was no explanation to be made, no negociation. My friend just couldn't climb up and follow me. that's when i wish i could turn into other people to know what they have lived before, where thay have lived and what they've been tought.

    sorry for being so long and maybe a little blurry. i let it all flow out.

  6. #6
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Aloha sunwaiter,

    You share nice sentiments about wanting to turn into an Iraqi, Afghani, or Chinese in order to see things differently. Alas my friend, you would also need to then experience growing up(education, faith system and others) in such a society in order to *get* that other *perspective*. But I know you so far as an intelligent and thoughtful person who understands what historical, cultural, political and familial things that make up a human being in different countries.

    Btw, the big mistake about New Orleans is that it lies below sea level in the Mississippi flood plain and delta at the coastline.

    Humbly,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  7. #7
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso rojo's Avatar
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    Interesting posts here so far. Thanks.

    It seems we're pretty much in agreement here.

    I'm against the banning of any music. I think it should be up to the individual to choose what or what not to listen to, as much as possible. But then the arts have been subject to bans on a regular basis in history, perhaps literature most particularly.

    Let's expand the question; do any of us think that there are circumstances that would justify the banning of music? And if so, what would those circumstances be? Art music in particular, but one can extend the parameters to include other music, or other arts.
    ''Music, I feel, should be emotional first and intellectual second.'' - Maurice Ravel
    ''The greatest education in the world is watching the masters at work.'' - Michael Jackson


  8. #8
    Commodore con Forza Tûrwethiel's Avatar
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    Hi there

    Haven't we heard over and over again that music is the universal language? I'm also against the banning of any music, but agree with Rojo that art forms have been subject to politicisation since about the year dot.

    The only music I think could possibly be banned would be songs with lyrics designed specifically to stir up hatred or cause offence on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual preference etc. Then again, it would all come down to who makes the decisions.

  9. #9
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Aloha Ms. RoJo,

    Imnsho, if the music incites people to commit violence against other people because of race, creed, political affiliation, belief affiliation, and sex then it can by all means be curtailed in the interests of public order.

    Cheerio,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  10. #10
    Commodore con Forza
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    Corno, that was axxactly what i meant: experiencing a different life with all that goes with it, education, cultural background, history, etc. i don't like condescendance, and like we said it several times, some countries ( at least the people "representing" them ) do have a condescendant behaviour towards less industrially and commercially etc developped country. i don't like what in france we call "angelism", that is to say a tendency to justify bad acts or attitudes, and i am aware that some governments go against the most fundamental human rights, which don't even need to be writen down a paper sheet or a rock to be understood, but i don't like certainty about everything, including the idea that WE people from the "west" know what is good to be broadcasted or not. once again i think there are other important things. sorry to be a bit repetitive.

    New orleans is not the only city in the world located under sea level. i don't see how it could be an excuse for the authorities that simply let the people of the aera on their own. i don't like to criticize openly without having the details, but seriously, don't you think new orleans people have received all help possible?

    if one day amsterdam is wiped off the map by the sea, do you think the dutch government and europe will let all amsterdamers die, or on their own?

    back to the topic: i also think that the only music that can should be censored is the one that carries ideas of hate.

    and sorry for some typing mistakes, i went to fast
    Last edited by Krummhorn; Oct-03-2008 at 16:49.

  11. #11
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Aloha sunwaiter,

    The whole post-Katrina saga of New Orleans is a political billyclub used by both parties to incite passions and distress in both the local and National voting constituency.

    In re to Amsterdam, I saw a TV program three years ago that scientifically and politically explained how Amsterdamers would be evacuated to higher ground. As you probably well know the Netherlands has a system of polders, dykes and other flood control/mitigation systems to help in times of emergency.

    Cheerio,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  12. #12
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    I fail to see how the Chinese can effectively ban religious music, They have brought google to heel but they surly can’t control the whole internet, how will they define religious music ?? and what on earth do they fear, they want to join the rest of the world, and they did put a splendid show on for the Olympics even allowing for some trickery but this attitude “if true” would be counter productive, I cant see that it is a matter of control.

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