Michael Jackson acquitted of all charges...

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Sybarite,

Thanks for pointing out about the tabloids ... so very true, even here in the states. I guess the majority want to read about scandals whether or not there is any truth to them.

In the US we also have court room drama shows ... supposedly real life court with a real judge hearing real cases ... most of these 'cases' are totally absurd, like a mother suing her daughter for $225, or the neighbor who ran over the pet snail being sued for $7000 for damages. Yet, the public sits on the edge of their seats begging for more.

I am of the opinion that trial by TV does hinder justice. All the needless publicity just brings about even more hype and other security issues.

Reading recently that "Neverland" may appear on the auction block soon.
 

rojo

(Ret)
It just doesn't stop.

*sigh* It seems that I will have to become an mj defender. Oh well, so be it.

Did anyone even bother to watch the video? What about all mj has done for children over the years? Paying sick children's medical bills, visiting children in hospitals, helping families. What about what mj had to endure when he was arrested? I don't think any of us will ever know how difficult the trial was on Michael; an unjustified trial created by a man with a personal vendetta against Michael (Tom Sneddon) and money-grubbing charlatans. It seems no one remembers this-

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO7wOwdTwB8[/youtube]

Comments such as the following perpetuate the negative views people have of Jackson based only on limited at best opinions, allegations and hearsay.-

Sybarite said:
The Bad and Thriller albums are very good. The later stuff, in my opinion, starts bearing the hallmarks of someone who started believing his own publicity. Jackson virtually seemed to be suggesting that he was a Christ-like figure at one stage and that he himself could someone 'heal' the world.

Sybarite said:
As I said, his music became about himself being some sort of saviour of the world. Earth Song, for instance, was dire – total sanctimonious schmaltz. And when he started posing like Christ while performing it at the Brits in 1996, he looked as though he was starting to believe his own hype. That was how I meant a hallmark. One could also look at lyrics such as "With your pen you torture me/You'd crucify the Lord" from Tabloid Junkie, which seems to link his situation with Jesus's.

To refer to one song to explain an artist's opinion of himself is absurd. Or any song, really. This is entertainment, folks.

Krummhorn said:
The other part of the fiasco was whenever Michael moved about ... no less than 5 seriously gas guzzling SUV's were in his entourage at any time, special considerations like moving people out of a hospital area so he could have the room to himself. Sorry, nobody, celebrity or not, deserves that kind of treatment. When he got sick (coughed twice) he was RUSHED to the hospital in his pajamas ... c'mon, when was the last time you or I even distantly thought of going to the emergency room when we coughed? Those incidents were pure publicity stunts, and nothing more, at least imho. There were more than one occassion when he was almost in contempt of court for not showing up on time, but the judge "decided" not to throw the book at him. Would you or I have had that same treatment by the court? No way!! Sorry, the fact that someone is a celebrity doesn't excuse them from the laws - he puts his pants on just like I do, one leg at a time.
Here we go again. Who are you to judge what health issues mj has or does not have? Why must you accuse him publicly as being a faker? Not nice. About the hospital incident- guess what. The people involved in those allegations are trying to sue Jackson for ...yup; money. More money-grubbers. The judge has halted the proceedings, according to USA Today.

Reading recently that "Neverland" may appear on the auction block soon.
This rumour has been floating around for a long time. If it actually happens, then people should believe it. But not before. More negative jibes.

The only issue I can agree with you on to a degree is the baby incident. Was it a smart thing to do? Absolutely not. Poor judgment on his part? Definitely. But who of us is not guilty of poor judgment at some point in our lives. I think mj just got caught up in the moment. That said, he was holding the infant very tightly. No chance that child was gonna fall, unless there was an earthquake or something. Nevertheless, a risk that is not worth taking, no matter how minute. Maybe when mj is no longer with us people will forgive him for this. That's what happened to Steve Irwin, who held his baby with a crocodile nearby.

Krummhorn said:
The media completely blew everything way out of proportion
Absolutely.

Sybarite said:
apparently seriously screwed up individual
Ouch.

Stop pointng fingers.

Don't kick people when they are down.

Stop the hate.

Now.

I'll be back to explain why I make such a bold statement about Jackson being the greatest entertainer all time.
 
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Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear Ms. RoJo,

I must respectfully disagree with you on one point in regards to Michael Jackson. I do not detect any hatred towards him on this forum. Yes, there are some strong opinions about him but to construe them as hate is going beyond the pale. I don't care for Michael Jackson at all but I likewise don't have an urge or predilection for wishing all the world's opprobrium upon him.

I humbly and respectfully, as your forum colleague and friend, urge you to revisit some of your passionate outlays. Frankly, they border on the unbalanced. Reading your usual posts and knowing your passion for music education, I have come to know you as a considerate, thoughtful, and balanced person. For the sake of the forum, please take a breather. We MIMFers do love and care for you.

May your days be filled with wonderment and joy,

Corno Dolce :):cheers::angel::tiphat::wave:
 

Sybarite

New member
Rojo,

I think that Corno Dolce is absolutely on the mark. I cannot see any "hate" in any posts and it's certainly not intended in mine.

I described Jackson as "seriously screwed up". Now that, to me, means that he has serious problems – by all accounts he had a pretty dismal childhood and was treated appallingly by his father (besides which, how many 'showbiz kids' end up in a mess – it's not a natural and essentially healthy way to grow up). I'd say exactly the same of, say, Judy Garland – but saying that does not in any way mean that I "hate" the person concerned. On a purely human level, Jackson strikes me as a rather tragic figure, to be pitied rather than anything else.

I think that the evidence suggests that Jackson is trying to be a child again – perhaps trying to get back a childhood that he never really had. The entire Neverland thing, with his private fair and his toys and wanting children around him, fits this analysis. That is not the behaviour of a mature and balanced human. But to say so is not hate. Rather, it is my personal opinion that Jackson needs help – and not from sycophantic cronies and hangers-on.

At no point have I condemned Jackson himself – indeed the only specific condemnation that I have levied in this thread is against those parents that, I believe, used their children and Jackson in an effort to make 'easy' money (I beat you, therefore, to the "money-grubbing charlatans" ;)).
 

rojo

(Ret)
I notice no one has had anything much to say about what I actually say in my post, or about the videos, they choose to focus on the hate comment I made. Apparently I have become mentally unbalanced, and you all pat yourselves on the back for agreeing with each other about that. Hmm.

Just to clarify, I didn't accuse anyone of hate directly. It was more a general comment on the state of affairs, and what I have seen.

Although to call someone a seriously screwed up individual is to condemn them. It's a hateful comment. Based on personal opinion.

Sybarite, to be honest, I'm surprised by your views. I always thought you would be someone who would stand up for injustice, who would keep a non-judgmental opinion. Seems I'm wrong. Who knew.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear Ms. RoJo,

I'm not a pit viper who strikes at any unsuspecting passer-by nor do I engage in judging anyone as mentally unstable. I leave that for professionally qualified people. However, if you read carefully my post to you, you would find a person who cares deeply about you and wants the best for you. In no way should you misconstrue, twist and misinterpret what I wrote. I'm your colleague, damn it! :scold::scold::scold: Not your enemy.

Ti amo,

Corno Dolce
 

rojo

(Ret)
The more I see, the more I find that society is unbalanced on this issue.

Why, Sybarite, do you make this discussion a competition? What's this about 'beating me to the money-grubbers?' Stick to the issues, instead of glorifying your personal debating points. It certainly does not help your argument, imo.

What's wrong with caring for and helping children? What's wrong with liking toys? Mj has stated in many interviews that he gets inspiration for his music through children. I can post the interview if necessary. He's stated this numerous times. Is having childish tastes and liking children equivalent to being unbalanced? What does that say?

In many cultures, mj would be revered for his love and care for children, the millions of dollars he has spent to help them. But not here.

And now, I have become guilty by association. Guilty of being unbalanced for defending a person who is unfairly accused of being unbalanced.

I'm sad.
 
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Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Here we go again. Who are you to judge what health issues mj has or does not have? Why must you accuse him publicly as being a faker? Not nice. About the hospital incident- guess what. The people involved in those allegations are trying to sue Jackson for ...yup; money. More money-grubbers. The judge has halted the proceedings, according to USA Today.
Rojo,

I guess I hit a sore spot on this ... I meant no offense to you or MJ. I was not trying to judge his health issues ... I have lots of medical problems too, but I don't go running to the ER everytime my glucose level goes through the roof. The situation could have been handled differently other than 5 SUV's screaming down the road, exceeding all posted speed limits, with an entourage of people, when a simple sedan with two people would have sufficed.

I'm glad the judge stopped the money grubbers ... granted they were inconvenienced but that should not have a $ value on it at all. Maybe an autographed CD perhaps, but a huge cash settlement, no way. People are "sue happy" these days, and our courts allow it to perpetuate ... I applaud this judge for putting a halt to this instance.

Yes, MJ has done lots for humanity - I won't deny that ... and we all have our special means for our inspiration to compose music. Please don't feel that you are guilty by association ... you are not ... you have merely tried to give us a different viewpoint than what the media fed to us constantly. I enjoyed watching the 'author' video - I think a lot of good will come from people reading this book.

Please, don't be sad either ... we all still love ya here :tiphat:
 

rojo

(Ret)
I wish to amend a statement I made; this one-

Why, Sybarite, do you make this discussion a competition? What's this about 'beating me to the money-grubbers?' Stick to the issues, instead of glorifying your personal debating points. It certainly does not help your argument, imo.
I construed that you made that comment in order to make yourself look good. But it could be that you were just kidding around, judging by the wink afterwards. If you were simply kidding around, then I apologize.

Thank you for your supportive comments, Kh. I actually don't know anything about the SUV incident at the moment, so I won't comment on it.

I will be back later to explain why I have developed a sensitivy to this issue.
 

toejamfootball

New member
mercury and mj both suck, they are horrible at all they do... [/sarcasm]

I am sorry, I just thought a MJ vs Mercury debate was too funny. :D
 

rojo

(Ret)
----Stop The Presses!------

Michael is coming BACK, baby!

:trp::trp::trp:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS58333+30-Nov-2007+PRN20071130

:clap::clap::clap:

My faith in humanity is now en route to being restored. Because if Mike can come back after what he's been through, well, it just says a lot about strength and courage, imo. Hopefully this is just the beginning. There is only one new mj track on the album, but I feel it's good that positive things are happening for mj for a change, and that Thriller is an album that deserves this treatment. I hope this paves the way for new mj material, and more magic Michael moments.

Go Michael! :banana:

Here is the teaser video for Thriller 25; a bit hyped up, but that's to be expected from a teaser.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfQhdBpCFCA[/youtube]

Interesting; Quincy Jones, the producer of Thriller, studied music composition and theory with Nadia Boulanger and Olivier Messiaen in Paris.
 
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rojo

(Ret)
Well, I thought I could let these comments go, but I can't.

Nah, MJ is not crazy, and the waste was that preposterous trial.

I could add more, but I have already given my thoughts about MJ in this thread. Time to move on from the ridiculousness... onwards and upwards...... :grin:
 

Emmery

New member
I like most of MJ's music but when you get famous you have to be more careful about the things you do that could be viewed as controversial, (like sleeping with little boys). His previous out of court settlements with victims seem to indicate guilt to me. Perhaps these incidents would discontinue if he were to rename his palatial estate home.. "WhatwerethoseparentsthinkingLand"
 

greatcyber

New member
I have always enjoyed MJ's music, just not what happened in the media with the circus atmosphere of it all. Yes, he was acquited but so was OJ. It's a shame he had to move to Bahrain to escape all the hubbub. Perhaps he will get back to the task of making music as the majority of the world still appreciates his talent.

But why did he name is child "Blanket"...?! I read that he was working with the officials in Bahrain to develop music programs, etc. I would like to hear something new from his...and Janet, too.

Stephen
 

rojo

(Ret)
when you get famous you have to be more careful about the things you do that could be viewed as controversial, (like sleeping with little boys).
Why? And in what way 'more careful?' Why should MJ have to do what you, or anyone else thinks he should do?
His previous out of court settlements with victims seem to indicate guilt to me. Perhaps these incidents would discontinue if he were to rename his palatial estate home.. "WhatwerethoseparentsthinkingLand"
If you had to choose between putting your whole life on hold to go to court for an interminable court case just to deal with a few charlatans (which MJ originally wanted to do,) or pay them off for a piddly amount (relatively speaking) under the suggestion of your advisors and record company, what would you do? MJ never hid any of his actions, and faced the trial head on.

I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise one can jump to the conclusion that every person one meets is 'probably a criminal', and I wouldn't want to leave the house if that's the case. People who go around accusing others that they don't even know of criminal acts should show the proof.

People have forgotten the massive amount of good this man has done for children throughout the years. I still don't understand why some people persecute a man who just loves children.

MJ can do whatever he likes as long as he is not hurting anyone. He was cleared of all charges; maybe some day everyone will have moved on from this malarky.
I have always enjoyed MJ's music, just not what happened in the media with the circus atmosphere of it all. Yes, he was acquited but so was OJ. It's a shame he had to move to Bahrain to escape all the hubbub. Perhaps he will get back to the task of making music as the majority of the world still appreciates his talent.

But why did he name is child "Blanket"...?! I read that he was working with the officials in Bahrain to develop music programs, etc. I would like to hear something new from his...and Janet, too.

Stephen
The media ran with it because it makes them money. For some reason, society eats this stuff up. I guess they like to see 'how the mighty has fallen'. Bleh.

I think Blanket was a pet name his other kids used, and the name stuck. He can name his kid 'Moon Unit' like Zappa did for all I care. lol

Can't wait for new stuff! :)

Btw, OJ was convicted in civil court. These money-seekers/liars know they haven't a shred of a case against MJ, so...
 

Emmery

New member
Right now the burden of proof has shifted in regards to dealings with children. My friend had to get a police check before she could work around children yet she has children of her own and never hurt any of them in her life. Children cannot defend themselves like adults, are more vulnerable, and quite often don't know someone crossed the line with them till its too late. They need special measures to protect them and this is why people should pay attention to act accordingly around them.

OJ had the charges dropped in criminal court, but you don't see woman lining up to his door wanting to fill the shoes of his late Wife either. MJs' going to get the same treatment with parents and kids now. People have a funny way of thinking different when it comes to protecting their kids that falls outside of all boundary's. If they don't, then they are charlatans or people willing to sacrifice their kids for the sake of settlement $.
MJ's weirder than a 3 dollar bill....all kinds of indications that he needs a therapist, or a team of them working on his problems. All the good he's done for children is viewed by many as nothing more than the "candy" and promises that "people" use to gain trust. A cover.
The bottom line is that if you asked a bunch of well adjusted normal adult males if it is acceptable for them to be sleeping with young children (not their own) in their bed...The answer would be a resounding "NO". Even normal parenting skills come to some point where at a certain age they wean their own children off this practice for their own good.
Rojo, you ask why he as a celebrity should do what people want him to do...you answered this yourself...
"The media ran with it because it makes them money. For some reason, society eats this stuff up. I guess they like to see 'how the mighty has fallen'. Bleh."
He's under greater scrutiny because of his status...therefore he suffers greater falls if he screws up...comes with the territory.
I just know from the sheepish grin MJ had in his interviews when explaining his late night "habits" with children, that shivers ran up my spine...and I don't even have kids of my own. Others around me expressed the same feelings. I'm not taking anything away from his great talents as a musician, showman, dancer ect...but a person would need to get their head examined if they sent their kids to his house for a "sleepover".
 

greatcyber

New member
Moon Unit? I feel sorry for that kid, lol. I never knew about Blanket being a name the other kids used...I thought that was the name he chose in the beginning. Just goes to show you learn something every day.

When all is said and done, MJ does have a lot of talent. I agree, Rojo, that the media hypes things into overdrive in order to make money...what a shame. I realize that he is eccentric, but heck, he can afford to be and actually has to be as a natural result of his incredible fame. (we should all have such worries [grin]).

I look forward to seeing what his next project will be. I rather doubt that he will really return to living in the states, however.

I can uderstand about "nick names" as I used to be called "peanutty" and my older brother to this day is called "yeah yeah" as my little sister dubbed him that when she couldn't pronouce Timothy. We all thought it was cute.

Stephen
 

rojo

(Ret)
^^ I could be wrong about Blanket's name; I just think I read that somewhere. It may even be true. :grin:

I do however know that MJ is already living in the states. Has been for some time. He's currently living somewhere in the vicinity of Las Vegas, using a recording studio there. :clap: Of course by the time I write this, he may have moved. :lol:

And btw, Janet has recently released her new album. It's called Discipline.

Peanutty is too cute! :grin:
Right now the burden of proof has shifted in regards to dealings with children. My friend had to get a police check before she could work around children yet she has children of her own and never hurt any of them in her life. Children cannot defend themselves like adults, are more vulnerable, and quite often don't know someone crossed the line with them till its too late. They need special measures to protect them and this is why people should pay attention to act accordingly around them.

OJ had the charges dropped in criminal court, but you don't see woman lining up to his door wanting to fill the shoes of his late Wife either. MJs' going to get the same treatment with parents and kids now. People have a funny way of thinking different when it comes to protecting their kids that falls outside of all boundary's. If they don't, then they are charlatans or people willing to sacrifice their kids for the sake of settlement $.
MJ's weirder than a 3 dollar bill....all kinds of indications that he needs a therapist, or a team of them working on his problems. All the good he's done for children is viewed by many as nothing more than the "candy" and promises that "people" use to gain trust. A cover.
The bottom line is that if you asked a bunch of well adjusted normal adult males if it is acceptable for them to be sleeping with young children (not their own) in their bed...The answer would be a resounding "NO". Even normal parenting skills come to some point where at a certain age they wean their own children off this practice for their own good.
Rojo, you ask why he as a celebrity should do what people want him to do...you answered this yourself...
"The media ran with it because it makes them money. For some reason, society eats this stuff up. I guess they like to see 'how the mighty has fallen'. Bleh."
He's under greater scrutiny because of his status...therefore he suffers greater falls if he screws up...comes with the territory.
I just know from the sheepish grin MJ had in his interviews when explaining his late night "habits" with children, that shivers ran up my spine...and I don't even have kids of my own. Others around me expressed the same feelings. I'm not taking anything away from his great talents as a musician, showman, dancer ect...but a person would need to get their head examined if they sent their kids to his house for a "sleepover".

You have decided to judge MJ as guilty based on the way he looks (in your opinion, a sheepish grin,) being 'weird' (also your opinion,) the opinions of others around you, and previous allegations that were never proven. I don't think anyone should be considered guilty of a crime because of how they look, or because they are perceived by some as weird.

The allegations have been revealed as nothing but lies and extortion methods. The persons who brought them about have all been exposed, and proven as liars and money-chasers. In terms of the trial, DA Tom Sneddon spent waaaaay more $$ on MJ's case than any other investigation, including serial killers. Waaaay more police agents were used when searching MJ's home than usual. Think of all the real criminals that could have been investigated with all that dough. He made a website to enlist possible victims to come forward, and took trips on tax payers' money in order to seek out possible victims. He turned up nothing. And there were plenty of children that came to MJ's defense, including McCaulay Culkin, who said yes, they all shared a bed together, and nothing inappropriate ever happened. It was NOT sexual, however much it is a societal norm for adults not to share a bed with children.

The media blew everything out of proportion, and actually tried to sway the trial towards a guilty verdict. Very similar to a witch hunt.

The details of the trial are available to anyone who wishes to understand what really went on, and people are to be encouraged to look beyond what the general media have been presenting, to seek facts, and make up their own minds based on those facts. Most people do not take the time and trouble to do so. I have.

To see the good that MJ has done for children over his entire career as 'candy' for gaining trust I find ludicrous. I believe that MJ is concerned about children, cares about children, and he's said he gets inspiration from children for his music. That's what I understand.

The bottom line is; MJ was exonerated of all charges. There is no evidence for anyone to believe that MJ is a child molester. The trial is over, and justice was served.

MJ will do as MJ will do, whether people like it or not; no laws have been broken. If MJ chooses to take a route that makes him fall, (breaking with society's norms,) that's his choice. That doesn't however make it acceptable to pre-judge the man of being guilty of a crime. If, as stated in your post, Emmery, parents choose to keep their kids away from MJ, that's their prerogative, as it has always been.

Btw, to reiterate, OJ was convicted in civil court.

I think MJ looks pretty good in this recent vid (25-05-08)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxY-dVNU10[/youtube]
 
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Emmery

New member
There is not much real justice left in the U.S. It is fairly common as of late, that if you have enough money, you can defeat anything/anyone, or put a trial into stalemate, or drain your opponent of their finances before you bleed dry yourself. A sad statement on the state of the court systems, and the overly litigious nature of society.
MJ was asked in interviews about all his nose jobs and plastic surgery and he denied having any...hmmmm...do you believe him. Same with the crazy reference to his rare "turning white" disease...seems kind of funny it went hand in hand with his "nose mysteriously turning Caucasian disorder".
Rojo when you stated ...
"Btw, to reiterate, OJ was convicted in civil court."
the main difference between the two courts is the term "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the criteria for criminal court. You don't have to prove innocence in criminal court, you only have to introduce a small amount of doubt. The defense lawyers job is to weave this "small amount"' into the fabric of what is reasonable, sell it to the jury, and bingo, you exonerate your client. MJs trial was no different. He acted so weird and different from normal people (wearing pyjamas to court ect), he portrayed himself as this so that his other actions that also fall outside the norm (like sleeping with little kids) would seem to fit this rather strange profile and instill a small amount of doubt in peoples minds.
One of the possible explanations for MJs eccentricities is the isolation he has created for himself . It must be truly hard for someone so famous to not do this but there are certain negative things that come out of it. Our self image for the most part is connected to the everyday clues and interactions we get from our friends and peers. Most people mix a bit of individuality with a bit of conformity for a balance. Honesty and open dialogue with these people keep our self image in check. MJ probably lacks in this interaction so his strange behavior at times seems normal to himself.
 
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