seeking registration advice

Hello all.

I came to the organ with extensive piano background and, while I have been a church organist for some time, I am now feeling the urge to examine more advanced repertoire. This has of course led me into a more detailed investigation of registration than I have engaged in in the past. The organ I play is a 1954 3-manual Kilgen. Somehow I find the instrument to be rather undemonstrative compared to some instruments I have played. I find that as I go about trying to register pieces, particularly French Romantic pieces, that because I just do not have the resources that some of those pieces ask for that I have no choice other than to make compromises and adapt the registration of the piece to the instrument I have to work with. So, my question is whether or not this is viewed as acceptable and what experiences any of the veteran organists on this forum have had with registration challenges of this sort. How far does one dare go in adapting and changing to make a piece fit the instrument? I am sure this also into question when attempting to play large pieces on two manual instruments.
I hope this question makes sense. I would appreciate any opinions you might have. Thank You.

You probably will never get a general opinon of agreement on this one .Some organist are on earth: others have their head in heaven and think they are God: most of us in-between somewhere.

I think you hit the key word " adapting". As we all know some organs are better for some periods of music than others due to the registations/ranks etc i.e. barouqe, romantic, classical, French, German,English... list goes on and on.... So most of us have to adapt registrations as best we can with what we have to work with at the time. In most cases this can be done with alittle experimentation.

Some purist just would not play a piece if proper instrument/registrations were not avaiable.Most of us do not have this Luxury.I always liked to expose the members to many periods of music. . It can be done and well . . I remember one Large Episcopal Church I was head organist/choir master for 9 years. I had a 3 manual organ in main church, 2 manual in chapel and spinet organ in the mission church. I was always having to change to fit the instrument.. so I know you can.. Glad to hear you are not afraid to try acheive the best registrations you can for the piece you are playing. Good luck with your task.

I am one of those "down to earth" veteran (now beginning my 50th year playing in church) organists, who plays a church organ with limited resources ... a II/9 Möller pipe. I have learned to adapt my registrations, being quite creative in the process - there's lots and lots of combinations of stops in 9 ranks of pipes - On this organ I have played the larger Franck works as well as the very challenging piece, Sonata I by Mendelssohn in concerts.

I have no 32's, but that doesn't stop me from playing pieces that call that pitch out in the registrations. For a solo reed, I don't have one ... just the generic chorus reed 8' Trompette (85 pipes - speaks at 16' as well) that blends as a nice solo stop with the shades closed. I do have a Mixture III on the open Great and a Gemshorn Celeste (TC) on the enclosed Swell, and separate trems for each manual.

Add to the lack of stops I work with, is the lack of proper pistons ... I have precisely 4 generals (all thumb pistons), and no divisional pistons, nor a GC!! I do have a crescendo pedal that I have totally mastered (having played this organ every week since 1982) knowing exactly at what point each stop will add or retire. Full crescendo is my Tutti.

For me, the lack of a proper combination action with generals and divisionals is a far greater handicap than the lack of proper stops. I could do so much more literature on this organ given the proper number of pistons.

We all can't possibly have the resources of the huge cathedral organs, or more than two manuals, at our fingertips ... I think JSBach would be pleased to hear his works being played on my church Möller pipe.

thanks

Thank you both for your replies. I think my main issue was feeling guilty about altering a registration. I can see that creative registration and working with what you have is quite acceptable. I heard one organist say in response to another's complaints about the limitations of his instrument that she would not let any organ stop her from playing any music she wanted to play. The instrument I play seems to have some voicing issues I wish could be changed, but cost at this time forbids it.

Krumhorn, your comments about the crescendo pedal were assuring. I have always been reluctant to use it because there historically it seems to be taboo. This is unfortunate as I have found cases in which I found it useful. I will not hesitate to use it when useful in the future.

In many ways I suspect we should all be thankful to be able to play at churches that actively support and encourage pipe organ music. I always worry about the contemporary church movement taking over, and that would be worse than any instrument limitations.

goodwill67 said:

. . . Krummhorn, your comments about the crescendo pedal were assuring. I have always been reluctant to use it because there historically it seems to be taboo. This is unfortunate as I have found cases in which I found it useful. I will not hesitate to use it when useful in the future.

Click to expand...

I was always encouraged to use the crescendo pedal by my teacher ... used properly, it can add some magnificent effects to the playing. I use it quite regularly even in the accompaniment of choral anthems, primarily because I don't have pistons ... but it takes time to master the crescendo pedal and lots of experimentation. I am blessed with mine as it adds no couplers (well, I only have one coupler: Sw to Gt).

The following piece is one I played in a concert on this very organ last April. All the registration changes throughout this piece were accomplished with very judicial used of the crescendo pedal. This clearly shows how useful this item can become to an organist.

I'm wondering if I've bitten off more than I can chew with this Wm Boyce Voluntary (#5 in D from a set of 10) I'd like to play it through GrandOrgue, probably be similar problems with a real organ too.

The first page between measures 8-11 and 14-16 (the way I see it ) precludes use of the pedals, or is there some way round it like off with the 16' stops and only use 4' and transpose down an octave. My first thougtht would be to use great and positiv instead of pedals and great throughout the first page.

For second and subsequent pages would it be best use great and pedals for the sections marked Trumpet, with pedals and Positiv for the echo (marked change)

On my creas. pedal. I was lucky and had lights that lite up as I engaged the pedal..so always new where I was on it.

It seems likely that the most fastidious cases would be people making recordings, at least of the commercial type. Composers, for obvious reasons, usually wrote music for the organs they were playing. Bach would not have played an instrument that Franck was familiar with. And neither of those would know "American classic" organs.

Marie-Claire Alain may be about the 'past master' at fitting the instrument to the music she was recording. She has been known do considerable trying out before she settles on where to do the recordings. This is all fine for Marie-Clair Alain, but most organists don't have that luxury, or that necessity. Of course, they don't sell recordings, either.

As for pistons, I hope you are aware that no Cavaille-Coll organ had pistons, much less anything Bach played. Do you know what 'registrants' are? They are beings of the human type who stand at the sides and change the stops as needed. Yes, that's a pretty old-fashioned way to do things, but I'm sure Daniel Roth makes use of them at least at times. Maybe we are spoiled!! It's too easy these days.

All in all, I wonder if worrying about all this solves anything. Neither Bach nor Franck is around to criticize what later people do. And one Virgil Fox was notorious for the attitude of not caring what the composer called for (which is one reason he was controversial).

Do the best you can with what you have.

Well I had a go at the Boyce Voluntary, constructive criticesm welcome, I gotta learn somehow!

Mike: Perhaps in deciding what arrangement to use... I notice that it is for Harpsichord or organ.. so that would leave you open to use the manuals and not the pedal at all if you so desired.. and as I read through the score I can see the piece being played without pedal consideration I would use one manual for the "change" and the other for the trumpet if possible: however that could still be done with fast stop changes on one manual also. There are many compositions of earlier periods that pedals become optional or you only had one manual and pedal organ to begin with to use. Sounds good so far the way you are playing the piece.

Thanks Bill, technically it's not me playing, it's all computer, I download scores from WIMA in Finalé .MUS format, edit (read hack them about) in Finalé Songwriter or Notepad then play them as Midi files through GrandOrgue.

My only "creative" input is the registration and a bit of adjustment to the score to get the desired midi outputs.

I'm also using this to explore some of the lesser known earlier composers, apart from William Boyce, I've unearthed works by William Croft, William Walond, Maurice Greene, and some slightly better known ones.

very interesting stuff....

Hi Dorset Mike,

This piece was written at a time when English organs didn't have pedals. So a purist would play the whole way through on the manuals only.
However, your idea of adding the pedals for the trumpet section is interesting. If it gives the effect you're looking for, go ahead with it.

Yes, the more I look at and listen to some of these earlier works I can see that is very true. However as with most things organs also evolve, as I've previosly said being retired and stuck in the house through most of the winter I've been experimenting (read palying about) with GrandOrgue and not being a performer I'm more or less restricted to playing scores through a notation programme.

A lot of these early works are fairly straightforward but I find them very pleasing to the ear. I'd like to hear more of them performed and recorded but in these commercial days there is probably not sufficient market for them. A few find outlets, one or two tracks hidden in a compilation or on one of the smaller on line sources like the Baroque Music Library.

If I can get a few works up to a reasonable standard I might try and figure how to put them on Youtube, could be interesting.

Hi Dll927! I strogly support your views on this discussion. I'm "down to earth" too and allways had to work hard with what I posesed at the time. This is not bad at all. I believe that it boosts creativity and leads to find interesting combinations. For example, how many pieces of organ music can one play with a small positiv of two stops?(a Rohrflotte 8' & a coppelflotte 4'). There are cases when a stop sounds like you have combined three stops(registrants super work).
So my friend Goodwill67,as a piano player and organist to, my cotribute to your question is to just adapt everything in to your adilities,means of equipment ect, but do not go away from the inner meaning and essence of the composer of the piece!