Understanding American Conservatism

KBOC

New member
The topic of this Op-Ed is focussed on SCOTUS nominee Harriet Miers... but the points made are key to understanding the conservative movement in the United States
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AMERICAN CONSERVATISM

Holding Court
There's a crackdown over Miers, not a "crackup."

BY RUSH LIMBAUGH
Monday, October 17, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

I love being a conservative. We conservatives are proud of our philosophy. Unlike our liberal friends, who are constantly looking for new words to conceal their true beliefs and are in a perpetual state of reinvention, we conservatives are unapologetic about our ideals. We are confident in our principles and energetic about openly advancing them. We believe in individual liberty, limited government, capitalism, the rule of law, faith, a color-blind society and national security. We support school choice, enterprise zones, tax cuts, welfare reform, faith-based initiatives, political speech, homeowner rights and the war on terrorism. And at our core we embrace and celebrate the most magnificent governing document ever ratified by any nation--the U.S. Constitution. Along with the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes our God-given natural right to be free, it is the foundation on which our government is built and has enabled us to flourish as a people.

We conservatives are never stronger than when we are advancing our principles. And that's the nature of our current debate over the nomination of Harriet Miers. Will she respect the Constitution? Will she be an originalist who will accept the limited role of the judiciary to interpret and uphold it, and leave the elected branches--we, the people--to set public policy? Given the extraordinary power the Supreme Court has seized from the representative parts of our government, this is no small matter. Roe v. Wade is a primary example of judicial activism. Regardless of one's position on abortion, seven unelected and unaccountable justices simply did not have the constitutional authority to impose their pro-abortion views on the nation. The Constitution empowers the people, through their elected representatives in Congress or the state legislatures, to make this decision.

Abortion is only one of countless areas in which a mere nine lawyers in robes have imposed their personal policy preferences on the rest of us. The court has conferred due process rights on terrorists detained at Guantanamo Bay and benefits on illegal immigrants. It has ruled that animated cyberspace child pornography is protected speech, but certain broadcast ads aired before elections are illegal; it has held that the Ten Commandments can't be displayed in a public building, but they can be displayed outside a public building; and the court has invented rationales to skirt the Constitution, such as using foreign law to strike down juvenile death penalty statutes in over a dozen states.

For decades conservatives have considered judicial abuse a direct threat to our Constitution and our form of government. The framers didn't create a judicial oligarchy. They created a representative republic. Our opposition to judicial activism runs deep. We've witnessed too many occasions where Republican presidents have nominated the wrong candidates to the court, and we want more assurances this time--some proof. The left, on the other hand, sees the courts as the only way to advance their big-government agenda. They can't win national elections if they're open about their agenda. So, they seek to impose their policies by judicial fiat. It's time to call them on it. And that's what many of us had hoped and expected when the president made his nomination.

Some liberal commentators mistakenly view the passionate debate among conservatives over the Miers nomination as a "crackup" on the right. They are giddy about "splits" in the conservative base of the GOP. They are predicting doom for the rest of the president's term and gloom for Republican electoral chances in 2006. As usual, liberals don't understand conservatives and never will.

The Miers nomination shows the strength of the conservative movement. This is no "crackup." It's a crackdown. We conservatives are unified in our objectives. And we are organized to advance them. The purpose of the Miers debate is to ensure that we are doing the very best we can to move the nation in the right direction. And when all is said and done, we will be even stronger and more focused on our agenda and defeating those who obstruct it, just in time for 2006 and 2008. Lest anyone forget, for several years before the 1980 election, we had knockdown battles within the GOP. The result: Ronald Reagan won two massive landslides.

The real crackup has already occurred--on the left! The Democratic Party has been hijacked by 1960s retreads like Howard Dean; billionaire eccentrics like George Soros; and leftwing computer geeks like Moveon.org. It nominated John Kerry, a notorious Vietnam-era antiwar activist, as its presidential standard-bearer. Its major spokesmen are old extremists like Ted Kennedy and new propagandists like Michael Moore. Its great presidential hope is one of the most divisive figures in U.S. politics, Hillary Clinton. And its favorite son is an impeached, disbarred, held-in-contempt ex-president, Bill Clinton.

The Democratic Party today is split over the war and a host of cultural issues, such as same-sex marriage and partial birth abortion. It wants to raise taxes, but dares not say so. It can't decide what message to convey to the American people or how to convey it. And even its once- reliable allies in the big media aren't as influential in promoting the party and its agenda as they were in the past. The new media--talk radio, the Internet and cable TV--not only have a growing following, but have helped expose the bias and falsehoods of the big-media, e.g., Dan Rather, CBS News and the forged National Guard documents. Hence, circulation and audience is down, and dropping.

The American left is stuck trying to repeat the history of its presumed glory years. They hope people will see Iraq as Vietnam, the entirety of the Bush administration as Watergate and Hurricane Katrina as the Great Depression. Beyond looking to the past for their salvation, the problem is that they continue to deceive even themselves. None of their comparisons are true. Meanwhile, we conservatives will continue to focus on making history.

Mr. Limbaugh is a radio-show host. This is the latest in our occasional series.
 

ApeXX

Banned
I am a diehard conservative myself (For the record, I do not like Bush however!) and I must say that that quote really sums up the points and views of the conservative ideas. Liberals are always looking to place things into the hands of the government, which is not the way it should be.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
which way should it be then?
In the hands of companies? I pretty much doubt that it will ever be in the hands of the people..


It is funny to see as a european.. your liberals that you see as your left, could almost be compared to nationalist right on our political scale. In most of Europe church and state is almost separated.

To me the election between democrats and republican seems like a huge farce to me. What about all the nuances in between? You generally get the chance to vote between 2 power-mongering morons backed by major corporations.. sorry but it all seems kinda awkward to me.

Freedom of speech is slowly being taken away step by step, budget is going downhill and each part only does theirs to make it worse.

So far.. for the last many years I haven't actually heard one of the political players come up with a suitable idea of how to restore economy.. and of course I take an interest in you guys economy.. for when it one day fails.. ours has a chance of going down the same direction unless we manage to cut off trans-atlantic bonds before that.
 

ApeXX

Banned
Freedom of speech is not going anywhere. I actually think that they let some people speak too freely. Just the other day, pro-nazi protesters in Ohio went around saying "blacks should burn" in an african american ghetto. The "blacks" came out, and starting to beat the living tar out of the protesters. Of course, the police showed up and escorted the protesters through the rest of their protest. They by law have the right to do that.
 

KBOC

New member
Priest, the reason I won't bother responding to your "points" is because you don't make any.

If you really want to engage in debate, you have to have a little more than gross generalizations. You could cite a few examples to make your case, but you're not bothering...

I don't expect to convince you of anything: regardless.

But be prepared, if you make a point to me, make sure it's 100% accurate, because if it is a fraud, I'll expose it.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
so you're claiming that companies aren't having that much influence or?

Hell.. I'll say that companies have way too much influence in my own country. My dear prize example is Maersk.. danish based company. I'll be pretty surprised if you haven't heard of it. Well.. when they say jump, my governmet are jumping.. more than eagerly happy to do so.. yes.. Maersk provides my nation with a lot of work.. no doubt.. but apart from that they pay the lowest taxes in our country.. and the government don't do anything about it.. because Maersk have them by the balls.

Why I put question about your conservatism is that I can't really see what values you basically are fighting for.. again I ask.. is it the values of the companies in your country?



I do reckon that freedom of speech have a negative side. The world is made up from approx 90% morons. This is really sad.. no doubt.. and they are everywhere. They come in all shapes, colors political opinions etc.


But hey.. opinions are opinions.. what might seem sick to me, might be basic fundaments of other peoples society. There are things I like about the US and there are things that I find as being the sickest things imaginable.


I might go into a debate some other time.. you are right.. I don't really bother right now. You have a strong political opinion.. I have a hard time believing in politics, because it is mainly bullshit.. from left to right. Not to say that I don't take an interest in politics..

If you look at it.. everything has its advantages. Our cultures.. and here I'm talking about both of our western cultures are so free, that we are often deprived of values in many ways.. this leaves us with a huge wing of possibilities but it also carries its disadvantages.. on the other hand you might take a look on some strict and religious islamic society. They tend to have some really strong values.. and to them our "free" values, our freemarkets etc.. is like a poison or a cancer, attacking their culture.. just like you guys had it with communism some years ago.

Everything comes with good and bad.. don't tell me that your political agenda is an enlightened path shown to you by some God.

Politics has to adjust to the people in it.. and if you read my statement above, I'll claim that most people are idiots.


Also.. no system stands for a longer time and what might be good in one age might be really bad in another. Political ideas are like roses.. they flower and are beautiful.. but sooner or later they wither and becomes food for the worms. But hey.. something new might arrive.. that is the beauty of it.

So if I should claim to believe in anything, I might say changes.. and looking at the current world situation.. hmm.. some drastic changes might be needed. Don't come say to me that it is actually going well..
 

KBOC

New member
Maersk is one of the worlds best shipping companies. They're all over the place here.

1. The following is not opinion: it is fact.

If you had any understanding at all of economics, you'd understand that raising taxes reduces tax revenue. You'd understand that velocity of currency produces tax revenue, and taxation is a sink-hole that stifles economic growth.

2. The folowing is opinion.

That the Danes very wisely don't punish Maersk for their success is astounding. I'd have expected otherwise.

I do reckon that freedom of speech have a negative side. The world is made up from approx 90% morons. This is really sad.. no doubt.. and they are everywhere. They come in all shapes, colors political opinions etc.
\

Another basic difference between those that tend toward socialism and those that tend toward natural economism:

We are confident that people make rational decisions when the proper information is provided to them.

I don't believe for a second that most people are morons, I simply believe that most people are ill informed.

This has had largely to do with the domination of mass media by those tending toward Socialism, who have consistently a very pessimistic view of humanity.

In the United States, the "alternative" media, which was spearheaded by Rush Limbaugh, has been the harbinger of change in this country. Why? Because people recognize when they are being mislead so long as there is a healthy, honest debate.

In the United States, that healthy, honest debate did not exist pre-Limbaugh. We had the insestuous socialist leaning members of the media, and that was it.

Now we have a group of people who daily call into question information issued, and often times disproven.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
wouldn't a healthy debate not be started by a person that is actually neutral in his opinions? Rush Limbaugh might seem sensible to you.. but maybe not to the other half of the country..
 

KBOC

New member
What's neutral?

Someone who believes it's possible 9/11 was a righteous act?

Someone who believes it might be okay for Israelis to be slaughtered?

Someone who believes it might be possible the London Attacks were justified?

Debates aren't held by those who are "neutral". Debates are held on facts and intepretation of what those facts mean.

I've never seen a debate started by anyone who's "neutral," healthy or otherwise.
 

ApeXX

Banned
wouldn't a healthy debate not be started by a person that is actually neutral in his opinions? Rush Limbaugh might seem sensible to you.. but maybe not to the other half of the country..

It would be very hard to start a debate with someone who is "neutral". Plus, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

I think that the problem with both parties is that they both generalize way too much.


<--- I however am not nuetral.
tongue.gif
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
I don't quite agree with you on this one. People neutral might have an interest in making people strike a clear path between each other. We as humans are of so many various opinions that we have to find a consensus between what people want without them tearing their heads off first. So a good debate can easily be started by a neutral part.. the participants can then be of various opinion.


Debates are not always about having right.. it is about finding the balance of doing what is right and what satisfies the majority.
 

ApeXX

Banned
In theory that is what debates are for, however it is not in common practice. Most "debates" consist of two people with different opinions that are lobbying for the majority of people to agree with them. Look at the Presidential Debates, for example.

^^ Sorry the first sentence didn't make much sense, not exactly what I was trying to say. I am typing this on my Blackberry while my plane is sitting on the runway, and am pressed for time.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
well.. personally I think the american presidential debates are a joke.. reminds me of some twisted tv show.

Are you acquiented with the comic novel Transmetropolitan? Gives a fun twist to it..
 

sondance

Member
Hi Michel:
I have been promoted by this website from Skulker to Recruit. Encouraged by such recognition I thought I would offer some thoughts. Politics is tainted because it is inhabited by politicians. Now they are no worse, nor are they any better than you and me. In fact if it were not for the fact that people in general are basically flawed, we would not need politicians or other ruling classes to keep us in line. So the irony is that the same reason why we need governments is the reason why they frequently disappoint us.
:
banghead3.gif


What do you hope in?

aka Ken
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
Well.. actually quite a good question.
I'm basically not in it for the typical left wing/right wing crap. Personally I would hope that mankind would take some more thought about how they tread environment, because it isn't going that well right now..

Problem is: there are 6 billion people on the planet. Huge problems with poverty. Western world is sucking in money like a giant leech. We are thinking about ourselves and not some mutual responsibility.. I'd say.. to hell with some countries suverenity, if the environment crashes.


Apart from that I believe in dynamics in our way of thinking and change in our structures. There is no type of government that are the right thing.. at least not invented yet. One type of government might be good in one situation or a given point in history and in other times it might bring about some rather devastating results. For an example.. in Denmark.. the left wing lost last election after they'd been in charge for 8 years.. which is propably good..(though I really dislike the right wing in Denmark), beacuse then they have to improve themselves.. that it ends up in populistic bullshit.. well that is another thing.



I would like to believe that mankind would start to think a little one day.. that our evolution wasn't only technically, but also in a more mental way..

Who knows.. we might actually improve as we make larger and larger catastrophes and we start to upgrade our brains and genes.. but within the next period of time.. I fear that we'll be heading into some really dark times and I would actually like, not to see the world unfold in the way it does..
 

KBOC

New member
Problem is: there are 6 billion people on the planet. Huge problems with poverty.

Which, interestingly enough is perpetuated by "Western Aid" which perpetuates the problem.

Western world is sucking in money like a giant leech.

You continually prove you're complete ignorance of how wealth is created. It's why "debating" with you is a waste of time. One can't debate with someone who can't grasp basic concepts such as value creation.

Apart from that I believe in dynamics in our way of thinking and change in our structures.
How does changing "Our way of thinking" change the rest of the world? It doesn't solve any problems in the rest of the world, just our own.

I would like to believe that mankind would start to think a little one day.. that our evolution wasn't only technically, but also in a more mental way..
"Mental"... hmmmm...

Who knows.. we might actually improve as we make larger and larger catastrophes and we start to upgrade our brains and genes.. but within the next period of time.. I fear that we'll be heading into some really dark times and I would actually like, not to see the world unfold in the way it does..

LMAO! Let me guess: The Hurricanes are all George Bush's fault... right?
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
come on.. illuminate me then if you are so wise and I'm so ignorant. I don't claim that other countries would be different from those of the western world if they had a stronger economy.. I don't neglect the fact that other countries are filled with human beings..

only thing I claim is that we have a responsibility and random bombings of so-called "evil-empires" don't seem to be helping on the general stability of things.


Look at it.. try eventually to travel beyond your own shores.. try to see what happens from sources other than your own countries media.. and tell me that there is no problem.. tell me that we are actually doing something that increases the chance of 3rd world countries developing in a larger degree than we decrease their chances.

It is down to one thing.. cheap production prizes. Very few "aid" initiatives are actually not to our own benefit.. and when they are.. they are driven by opinion polls.. and when something more excitening comes along, the old problem is forgotten.



How does changing "Our way of thinking" change the rest of the world?


Look upon it.. Pax Americana.. would you say it hasn't had an effect on the world. For a short period of light it stood as a beacon of light for a large chunk of the world.. a glowing path in the darkness that succumbs the majority of the planets population, but now that same flag is an abonimation for most eyes to behold. Your country has [censored] up.. inward and outward. Your president is a joke and the cabinet behind him consists of people representing power-mongering corporations. The world is now multi-polarized.. each greater nation ready to claim theirs from where the US fails, enjoying each little failure..

.. and mark my word.. I don't necessarily see this is as a good thing. I do actually like stability, but hey.. 6 billion people just can't get along fine.. and that is as well why I say we are propably heading for darker times.


What's your point with your last remark? To note the lack of coherency in your post or..? Don't say that I'm not making any points and then not make any yourself..
 

sondance

Member
Hi Michel:
I appreciate your honest answer to this daunting question. It is not easy to find a dependable source of hope in this post-moderm time. When I was young I plunged into a typical abandonment of reason to become what we called a W.E.D. (week-end drunk - could not let parents or teachers discover our rowdyness). By the time I was sixteen I saw this quickly fall apart against the bigger questions of life, which remained unaswered by art, science, philosophy and humanistic theology. Found good answers and something more resolute to trust. I encourage you to look past truth centered on man's ability to reason or evolve. Don't ever stop searching, and don't distrust all things ancient.
Ken
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
I'm not quite sure if I follow you on this one Ken?

What are you suggesting... that I should stop getting drunk in the weekends, find God or delude myself in some other way?
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
was a quick answer made early in the morning..
of course one should not stop searching for answers in things. As I see it, everything is circles or spheres in various sizes. I can go affect my sphere in some way.. being either nice or rude to people.. and in some way this effect will spread. If I'm rude to people around me.. well.. I might just make their day in a really bad way.. then they take out their anger on someone else and vice versa.. I could be really nice and caring to people I meet.. and might be a good example.

I do believe in fighting for some excistential things. I have my opinions, which you've propably noticed ;] .. though I'm not going to force my opinions down the throat of others, but one thing I do is to provoke people in being able to answer for what they stand for. Way too many people don't consider their actions.. most people are deluded by religions, government, media etc.. people tend to swallow whatever they are fed.. or at least what they are being taught to eat.

I see people as potential individuals.. but most people seldom take indivualism in their own hands. It is easier to follow the words and "wisdom" of others, rather than actually forming ones own opinion..


I reckon I might believe in some excistential gnosticisme.. though I'm not religious I do tend to believe that we are responsible for our own fate a certain degree, that not government, but ourselves are the one to find within ourselves what is right or wrong.

What I see as right and wrong might not be the same as you see it.. as the government see it or so on.. what is right and wrong is not universal. It is answers we have to find ourselves..


Then you might say... you have to follow the laws of your country! But if I do doubt them.. if I do find the reality that is forced unto me, to be false, I have to search within my self to see right from wrong.. who knows.. the fundament that the western world is build upon, what we see as right or wrong now, might later be portrayed as the largest crimes against humanity.

We are born, bred and beaten with the tunes of democracy and freedom, but are we actually free? If we all accepted things as they are, would it be a democracy in the first place? ... and is it really a democracy that we are living in, in the first place? We are taught that our way of living is the right one, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the right one. If you asked a german under the Third Reich, at least before the war broke out, he would propably claim that the way of the Reich was the only right way.. a communist in Russia, might have claimed the same before Glasnost.. why? Because they were bred to believe so..

I reckon that we are bred to believe that consumerism is the right way.. the free way..

But how would the next generations look upon us?
Those who consumed without thought of the coming generations, those who polluted the sky and ocean, wrecked havoc to environment? Would we be looked upon as criminals against the welfare of the planet, as irresponsible??


So yeah.. I kinda like my planet in many ways.. I enjoy nature, I enjoy seeing the various human fates blossom as well as the beauty of them wither.

I don't believe in the fact that everything should be all glamorous. My country is a good example of that. As a good chunk of the other regular users of this forum I'm danish. Denmark is in many ways a very perfect country. We have wellfunctioning education, good infrastructure, good social security, we are on the top 10 of least corrupt countries, we are on the top 10 list of having the most independent news covering and we have a pretty low crime rate and we are one of the countries in the world that pollute the least..

so everything is perfect isn't it?

we have freedom of speech.. what more could we want?? But mankind is far more complex than so.. we need something to fight for.. but all the things worth fighting for is so distanced from us.. so what can we fight for then.. to have more? The ungoing plague of the consumerism of our time.. or we can fight against ourselves... we are one of the countries with the highest suicide rates (I think it is topped by sweden and finland, which are both on the top10 list of least corrupt countries). I've met people who come here from Pakistan, Venezuela, South Africa etc.. places where the values we have here and take for granted is utopic dreams.. and when they come here.. they say that it reminds them of one big mental institution..


so.. I reckon that perfection is non-excistent..
what is left to believe in then? Back to my post earlier this morning.. should I delude myself then with religion, some forced political opinion or should I stop drinking in the weekends....
 
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