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Silentking
Jan-20-2006, 20:26
I was wondering if any one listened to avant garde jazz I really do enjoy it but it seems hard to find other people who enjoy it too or just even know what the music is one musician that plays avant garde that I do enjoy is Sun Ra very diffrent music https://www.magle.dk/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/guitar.gif

Jazzis
Feb-03-2006, 14:31
Avant Garde (jazz or anything else) can be most challenging, but than for some also the most rewarding king od intellectual experience.

It take EDUCATION to understand Avan Garde!

I have tought jazz to students for many years and often at the begining of the course many people could not stand any music beyond "Take Five", but after a few months they'd happily humm along with "A Love Supreme" https://www.magle.dk/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Underscore
Feb-10-2006, 18:38
So A Love Supreme is considered Avant Garde ?

Its actually the first Jazz album I bought. And I didnt have any problem listening to it.

But then again Im not educated in jazz theories so maybe im not trying to 'understand' it and just listen to how it is.

emtea
Mar-30-2006, 14:46
hi silentking
I have listened to some free jazz such as Coltrane's Ascension which is for a large ensemble improvising freely.
An earlier good one to check out is Out To Lunch by Eric Dolphy.
Also Ornette Coleman.
I think Coltrane's A Love Supreme is a mix of modal and free playing which came a few years after Miles Davis Kind of Blue (modal) and the albums 'Free Jazz' and 'The Shape of Jazz to Come' by Ornette Coleman.

bubba lou
Apr-05-2006, 06:09
Pharoah Sanders 'Creator Has A Master Plan' from his "Karma" album is a masterpiece of avant-garde jazz. And yes, I love Sun Ra as well.

Deeru Piotr
Jun-25-2007, 16:42
Some of my favourites avant garde jazz records are MU by Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell
Mingus presents Mingus (thought I'm sure some wouldn't consider this avantgarde to me it is)
Ornette Coleman Science fiction
First recording by the Art Ensemble of Chicago
This time by Anthony Braxton

none of this requires much education to enjoy the music as I see it they are wonderful and they are funny

McStrum
Jun-30-2007, 16:40
Avant Garde has to be experienced, if someone just tries to listen to a piece and they have no exposure other than mainstream music it will in my opinion usually turn them off to it.

You have to ease them into it with something a little avant garde and then slowly take them into it more deeply. Unless by chance they just take to it...

All music needs a caretaker, and the caretakers have to bring in new visitors slowly and carefully without overwhelming them so some day they can become the caretaker and pass the music on to the next person in the chain.

McStrum

doctortornface
Jul-16-2007, 01:15
So where would a band like Soft Machine sit?

Deeru Piotr
Jul-19-2007, 09:08
I love Soft Machine and yes they're (to me) another great example of great music that is very serious and is very funny, I would recommend Bundles and Softs
some can say is not jazz but some kind of rock or jazz rock, but who cares?
they were just great

pnoom
Oct-16-2007, 14:46
I love Avant-Garde rock, and a lot of it has a lot of jazz influence. Some recommendations (not jazz, but jazz-influenced):

Henry Cow - Western Culture
Etron Fou Leloublan - Les Poumons Gonfles
Area - Caution, Radiation Area

And I second Soft Machine. I've only heard 3rd, but it's a great album.

intet_at_tabe
Jan-03-2008, 13:29
Some of my favourites avant garde jazz records are MU by Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell
Mingus presents Mingus (thought I'm sure some wouldn't consider this avantgarde to me it is)
Ornette Coleman Science fiction
First recording by the Art Ensemble of Chicago
This time by Anthony Braxton

none of this requires much education to enjoy the music as I see it they are wonderful and they are funny

Hi guys and Deeru Piotr

If you check with your dictionary - the word avantgarde comes from the french language, in english it means something like ahead or vanguard.

As a great jazz-freak I have to say Ornette Coleman (alto saxophone and violin) is not exactly my cup up tea, no matter what album or time period in his more than 40-50 years as a musician. However he is very famous within his music, throughout the world. I know of an american, I believe he is an american Steve Reich, who I would consider belonging to the avantgarde in music. Anyone here know of him? You may find some of his work at www.ecm.com (http://www.ecm.com)

As for Don Cherry (piccolo trumpet), who btw. used to live in Sveden and the very gifted drummer Ed Blackwell, both of them with Ornette Coleman on numerous albums, not to mention the former Keith Jarrett double bass player Charlie Haden, also prior with Ornette Coleman, there are two albums I like.

The band is called Old Dreams and New Dreams. The band´s fourth member IMHO one of the jazz tenor saxophone´s best players in decades was Dewey Redman (who pasted away last year, I think), but as we all know his son Joshua Redman will carry on his own career in jazz on the tenor saxophone.

The two albums are titled "Old Dreams and New Dreams" and "Live". I would enjoy some of your opinions on those albums.

I never regarded John Coltrane´s "A Love Supreme" as avantgarde, but if you do, fine with me?

Chick Corea/Dave Holland/Barry Altschul created avantgarde in the early 1970´s on "A.R.C" and the album "Circle" I believe Anthony Braxton joined the band.

Chick Corea/Miroslav Vitous/Roy Haynes made a double album years ago "Trio - Plays Monk". On the second record in the album, they all improvise which in my untalented ears remind me of Ornette Coleman, though I am a huge fan of each of them.

Best regards,
intet-at-tabe

Deeru Piotr
Jan-10-2008, 17:36
Hi guys and Deeru Piotr

As for Don Cherry (piccolo trumpet), who btw. used to live in Sveden and the very gifted drummer Ed Blackwell, both of them with Ornette Coleman on numerous albums, not to mention the former Keith Jarrett double bass player Charlie Haden, also prior with Ornette Coleman, there are two albums I like.

The band is called Old Dreams and New Dreams. The band´s fourth member IMHO one of the jazz tenor saxophone´s best players in decades was Dewey Redman (who pasted away last year, I think), but as we all know his son Joshua Redman will carry on his own career in jazz on the tenor saxophone.

The two albums are titled "Old Dreams and New Dreams" and "Live". I would enjoy some of your opinions on those albums.

I never regarded John Coltrane´s "A Love Supreme" as avantgarde, but if you do, fine with me?

Chick Corea/Dave Holland/Barry Altschul created avantgarde in the early 1970´s on "A.R.C" and the album "Circle" I believe Anthony Braxton joined the band.

Chick Corea/Miroslav Vitous/Roy Haynes made a double album years ago "Trio - Plays Monk". On the second record in the album, they all improvise which in my untalented ears remind me of Ornette Coleman, though I am a huge fan of each of them.

Best regards,
intet-at-tabe

Great recommendations intet-at-abe!

I love Don Cherry in fact other of my "free" favourite records is MU the duet he recorded with Ed Blackwell (fantastic drummer), I've listened to Old and new dreams and yes is fabulous I'll look for that live record.
the trio record by corea, vitous and haynes is great also (well you sure like ECM)

Deeru Piotr
Jan-10-2008, 17:38
I forgot to recommend a record I discovered recently is called Raining on the moon by William Parker, great playing, fantastic lyrics (there's a couple of songs with a singer) and very easy to listen, very funny.

intet_at_tabe
Jan-10-2008, 20:23
I forgot to recommend a record I discovered recently is called Raining on the moon by William Parker, great playing, fantastic lyrics (there's a couple of songs with a singer) and very easy to listen, very funny.

Hi again Deeru Piotr

Is this album "Raining on the moon" by William Parker with the ECM Records. If not ,would you be so kind to enter the record label?

Happy you enjoyed the "Old Dreams, new dreams".

I once at a friends house years ago heard Pat Mehteny with Ornette Coleman on PM´s album "Song X". It was from the old vinyl days. A friend of mine, suggested for me to buy it from him, since he did not like it one bit. Neither did I. I suggested to him to use the vinyl record as a present for someone he did not like or as a freesbie :).

Best regards,
intet-at-tabe

HangOk
Oct-08-2008, 23:20
Jeeeaaah! This topic is for me!
Silentking, do you know John Cage or Fred Frith?
please email me! I need people who open minded to music to sounds. I have some great dvd avantgarde, experimental. We sould talk a lot about it. I am thirsting for other people thinks.

sunwaiter
Oct-09-2008, 16:53
fred frith delivered one of the strangest albums i've ever heard,and let's face it, one of the hardest to listen to. very interesting though.

john cage is to me more an experimentalist than a musician, as far as i know his music. but sound is always some kind of music ain't it? haven't heard so much Cage material actually.

to me avant-garde can sometimes be very accessible and very hardcore at the same time, and my example for this idea is Klaus Schulze. the first recordings he did are a challenge to patience.

sunwaiter
Oct-09-2008, 16:55
oh i forgot this one: one mof my strongest musical/sound experience on vynil was "is" by chick corea and co. a quite courageaous record to release, even at the time i guess.

White Knight
Dec-23-2010, 04:14
Not to be facetious or anything, but could somebody define this term for me?:confused: Is avant-garde jazz synonymous with "free form" jazz--and if not --what are its differences? And whom, besides Sun Ra and Ornette Coleman [?] would be considered the leading or best known musicians of this genre?

JHC
Dec-23-2010, 06:08
Avant Garde music in general takes repeated hearing to appreciate i.e for the average music lover, and some will only accept a tiny amount of it. in my experience it is appreciated more by the artist than the listener.

Steve Avant Garde = at the front, the leaders sort of thing, and is actually music but free form jazz IMHO ain't music at least "not as we know it Jim" ;)

White Knight
Dec-24-2010, 01:11
Hi Colin. Are you saying that this form of jazz is so "abstract" and hard to follow that it would only appeal to a small group of "aficionados"? I guess I'm out then, since there are times when I struggle to try and make some sense out of "regular" jazz and classical works.:banghead::shake: Thanx for the 411 on this topic. :grin:

JHC
Dec-24-2010, 04:13
Hi Colin. Are you saying that this form of jazz is so "abstract" and hard to follow that it would only appeal to a small group of "aficionados"? . :grin:

Free Jazz. Yes generally, at least what I have heard of it and that is not much as I do not like it. For me jazz must have a beat that is strong and a melody that is readily recognised the musicians can do what they like with it but the basics must never be lost, I am one of the old school and a purist. :grin:

teddy
Dec-24-2010, 22:14
I have to agree with you Colin. I basically like a tune of some sort rather than a mixture of sounds. Like Steve I am not a musician so i can not add anything further. It is just my musical taste.

teddy

gord
Dec-24-2010, 23:31
i only like free jazz played by solo piano. cecil taylor, paul bley etc. the strange thing is, i only listen while wearing headphones. i find this music very hard too concentrate on. gord

JHC
Dec-25-2010, 05:57
i only like free jazz played by solo piano. cecil taylor, paul bley etc. the strange thing is, i only listen while wearing headphones.
Would those be noise cancelling cans????:grin:

gord
Dec-25-2010, 12:04
hi colin, i see you have a great sense of humour. you are right of course, jazz must swing or it aint jazz. i always look foreward to your replys,they seem to contain a hint of comedy and knowledge. you must one day try to listen to cecil taylor, but i imagine you wouldnt have ataylor record in your collection.no way, right. gord:eek:

JHC
Dec-26-2010, 00:41
Right on gord but can you post a link ??

gord
Dec-26-2010, 21:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yomesyf8GFY

teddy
Dec-27-2010, 00:40
Thanks for the link gord. It does not do anything for me, apart from causing mild annoyance after a while

teddy

gord
Dec-27-2010, 02:40
hi teddy, i guess you would rather listen to BIG T. ok then, go to the what jazz have you been listening today thread. gord

White Knight
Dec-27-2010, 03:50
Hi Gord, I also checked out the Cecil Taylor link you provided; I could take it or leave it. I really did enjoy the "Arabesque" and "Claire de Lune" animated videos much more.

JHC
Dec-27-2010, 04:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yomesyf8GFY

Gord you have just re enforced my dislike of this stuff I actually switched off after about 7-8 seconds but thanks for the link

gord
Dec-28-2010, 02:16
hi colin, actually i screwed up somehow and put the wrong cecil taylor video on. even i did not like that one too much. gord:o

OLDUDE
Dec-28-2010, 22:53
Hi Colin,
I guess there is no way forward if this is the future.
My problem is that i struggled with Monk and Art Tatum so that the stuff on that link is to me really horrible and I feel sad for anyone who can listen to it. I avoid Ornette Coleman like the plague.

IT IS NOWAY JAZZ

Cheers John

JHC
Dec-29-2010, 00:28
Hi Colin,
I guess there is no way forward if this is the future.
My problem is that i struggled with Monk and Art Tatum so that the stuff on that link is to me really horrible and I feel sad for anyone who can listen to it. I avoid Ornette Coleman like the plague.

IT IS NOWAY JAZZ

Cheers John
It does offend the ears somewhat and a lot of to days classical is the same,