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Museo
Sep-29-2006, 17:02
Heavy Metal seems to have a bad press for being rather dark and unsavoury and reported incidents of Ozzy Osborne biting animals does not help. I wondered if anyone had actually played a heavy metal track backwards (apparently satanic messages come through). Was this association with the Devil just a way of making the music more popular?

SecondBass
Sep-29-2006, 17:07
Yes, Heavy Metal music is the music of the Devil and it is something to be proud of. Anything to shut up the muppets that think that music is corrupting their youth. Yes, it's the Devil's music; yes, it makes them mass murderers; yes, they will eat children after hearing it.

Museo
Sep-29-2006, 17:09
Yes, it's the Devil's music; yes, it makes them mass murderers; yes, they will eat children after hearing it.

:grin: I assume that you said that with a smile on your face SecondBass. It is remarkable how a type of music can be blamed for society's ills though.

Pompey
Sep-30-2006, 22:46
I hope it is. I couldn't bear the idea that I'm going to go to Hell and I have to listen to Katie Melua. Please, let it be the music of the Devil, otherwise damnation will be unbearable.

Leigh
Apr-12-2007, 20:19
When I hear the lyrics of some of the modern stuff I find it amazing how metal ever caused such a stir. Oh well never mind they do after all need something or someone to blame for all the wrongs of the world.
Just seem to remember that in the case against Ozzy didn't they manage to find some message in some nicey nicey album of the time to show that it was just a strange occurance and nothing inteded by Ozzy or his producers?

Soubasse
Apr-13-2007, 01:59
Apart from the stuff which appears unreservedly to encourage or support unsavoury and anti-social acts, I've nothing against it - it's just loud and fast most of the time.:)

Personally I feel that there is far more 'evil' found in the general Hip-Hop gospels with their out-and-out hatred of parental and teacher authority just for the sake of it, hatred toward women, and the general "F*** you because you're not a misogynist, neanderthal retard like me" attitude. Boring and disturbing at the same time. Give me heavy guitars and pounding drums anyday.

Matt

Stronghold
Apr-13-2007, 20:48
yea I agree Evil is Evil in music ,forums,politics, its everyware.

But I think you can tell just with the open eye of were it lies.;)

JLS
Apr-15-2007, 22:31
I've never quite understood why people have a tendency to associate moral implications to how a particular type of music sounds. Apparently, metal somehow "sounds like" evil. What exactly does evil "sound like"? If one doesn't know what evil sounds like, how on earth can they claim that something sounds like evil?

:confused:

SecondBass
Apr-15-2007, 22:45
We know what evil sounds like, it's Black Sabbath. Now that we have that established we can project this one step further and say that as Black Sabbath is evil and Lena Martell is all goodness and Christian, that goodness is patently rubbish so we should all support evil against the ongoing goodness malaise.

Support your local Heavy Metal band and reject everything Cliff Richard.

Stronghold
Apr-16-2007, 02:57
I've never quite understood why people have a tendency to associate moral implications to how a particular type of music sounds. Apparently, metal somehow "sounds like" evil. What exactly does evil "sound like"? If one doesn't know what evil sounds like, how on earth can they claim that something sounds like evil?

:confused:


Really good question ill try to give my point of veiw from my own perspective and let you be the judge of your thoughts on the matter.

Music to me is a spiritual thing for one I play music of all types Metal,Rock,Jazz,Neo Shread,blues,Clasical guitar.

When I wright music I do it from the hart are my soal so who I am comes out through my own personal expresion if I project evil than it will be expresed with its own spirit as evil are if I express light it will show completly in the way you think and feall after listening to what was played.

Music is mood altering is it not?

Make me feall happy?

Make me feall sad ?

Make me feall relaxed ?

If you choose yes to thoughs questions than you agree music changes your mental state.

Well I belive that there is a world outside the physical a spirituall world that has influance on the human soal.

Dont belive me do an experiment listen to www.klove.com just one song at random and then listen to the music score from the Exercist and keep tabs on how you physically and emotinally feall after listening to theem both.

And be honest.;)

JLS
Apr-16-2007, 07:22
Of course music impacts us emotionally. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it didn't. But what you seem to be suggesting is that music is evil if it makes you feel bad. If this is true, then Kenny G is evil if it makes me feel bad(and it does). On the other hand, I have a cd I recently purchased of death metal. When I listen to it, I hear complex original music that is quite pleasurable to listen to. It is well constructed and well performed. It is quite possible that someone else would not derive pleasure from listening to this cd. Perhaps some of the qualities of this music would even make them feel bad. This music makes me feel good and someone else feel bad. So is this music evil?

Stronghold
Apr-20-2007, 19:50
Of course music impacts us emotionally. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it didn't. But what you seem to be suggesting is that music is evil if it makes you feel bad. If this is true, then Kenny G is evil if it makes me feel bad(and it does). On the other hand, I have a cd I recently purchased of death metal. When I listen to it, I hear complex original music that is quite pleasurable to listen to. It is well constructed and well performed. It is quite possible that someone else would not derive pleasure from listening to this cd. Perhaps some of the qualities of this music would even make them feel bad. This music makes me feel good and someone else feel bad. So is this music evil?


Good question.....:)

To read between the lines of what im saying are I guess to clarify its emotional intent that is evil not the fact that you crank your marshall to 11 and blow the doors off the house to express your self.

So if it were my entent to express murder and rage in people through music than I would bet the farm there is somthing spiritually evil going on there.


Are to bring abought an evil idea .

Read Ozzys lyrics there is a diferance of telling a storry in a song as expreshion rather than trying to express evil ideas whole diferant ball game.


Do you see any evil entent in thees lyrics I dont I bet you dont either.



1. I Don't Know

[Daisley - Osbourne - Rhoads]

People look to me and say
Is the end near, when is the final day?
What's the future of mankind?
How do I know, I got left behind

Everyone goes through changes
Looking to find the truth
Don't look at me for answers
Don't ask me
I don't know

How am I supposed to know
Hidden meanings that will never show
Fools and prophets from the past
Life's a stage and we're all in the cast

You gotta believe in someone
Asking me who is right
Asking me who to follow
Don't ask me
I don't know
I don't know
I don't know
I don't know

Nobody ever told me
I found out for myself
You gotta believe in foolish miracles
It's not how you play the game
It's if you win or lose
You can choose, don't confuse, win or lose
It's up to you
It's up to you
It's up to you
It's up to you
Go, go, go

People look to me and say
Is the end near, when is the final day?
What's the future of mankind?
How do I know, I got left behind, now I'm lost

Everyone goes through changes
Looking to find the truth
Don't look at me for answers
Don't ask me
I don't know


2. Crazy Train

[Daisley - Osbourne - Rhoads]

All aboard! Hahaha

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe. it's not too late
To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

Mental wounds not healing
Life's a bitter shame
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

I've listened to preachers,
I've listened to fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role

Mental wounds still screaming
Driving me insane
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

I know that things are going wrong for me
You gotta listen to my words, yeah, yeah

Heirs of a cold war,
that's what we've become
Inheriting troubles,
I'm mentally numb
Crazy, I just cannot bear
I'm living with something that just isn't fair

Mental wounds not healing
Who and what's to blame
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train
I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train


3. Goodbye To Romance

[Daisley - Osbourne - Rhoads]

Yesterday has been and gone
Tomorrow will I find the sun
Or will it rain
Everybody's having fun
Except me, I'm the lonely one
I live in shame

I say goodbye to romance, yeah
Goodbye to friends, I tell you
Goodbye to all the past
I guess that we'll meet
We'll meet in the end

I've been the king, I've been the clown
Now broken wings can't hold me down
I'm free again
The jester with the broken crown
It won't be me this time around
To love in vain

I say goodbye to romance, yeah
Goodbye to friends, I tell you
Goodbye to all the past
I guess that we'll meet
We'll meet in the end

And I feel the time is right
Although I know that you just might say to me
What'cha gonna do
What'cha gonna do
But I have to take this chance goodbye
To friends and to romance
And to all of you
And to all of you
Come on now

I say goodbye to romance, yeah
Goodbye to friends, I tell you
Goodbye to all the past
I guess that we'll meet
We'll meet in the end

And the weather's looking fine
And I think the sun will shine again
And I feel I've cleared my mind
All the past is left behind again

I say goodbye to romance, yeah
Goodbye to friends, I tell you
Goodbye to all the past
I guess that we'll meet
We'll meet in the end

JLS
Apr-21-2007, 02:42
Good question.....:)

To read between the lines of what im saying are I guess to clarify its emotional intent that is evil not the fact that you crank your marshall to 11 and blow the doors off the house to express your self.

So if it were my entent to express murder and rage in people through music than I would bet the farm there is somthing spiritually evil going on there.


Are to bring abought an evil idea .

I take it, then, that you are giving up on the idea that how a particular music makes you feel determines its moral intent and instead claiming that if a piece of music intends to make someone commit an evil act it is evil.

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm fine with that. Now, you just have to tell me how you know what an evil act is.




Do you see any evil entent in thees lyrics I dont I bet you dont either.You're asking the wrong person. I don't know what the word "evil" refers to.

Stronghold
Apr-21-2007, 23:17
I take it, then, that you are giving up on the idea that how a particular music makes you feel determines its moral intent and instead claiming that if a piece of music intends to make someone commit an evil act it is evil.

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm fine with that. Now, you just have to tell me how you know what an evil act is.



You're asking the wrong person. I don't know what the word "evil" refers to.


Not at all its all apart of it anger,Rage is just as much an emotion as being happy just you conbine the two emotion + Idea are intent behind the idea will give you a reaction .

Some people the recaction might be to walk around in a pissed off mood cursing the world wile cranking up a slayer tune.

And others it might take theem over the edge.

For example I have no numbers in front of me and I dont think anyone has botherd to do a study on this but with that being said.

I wounder how manny drive by shootings in America were comitted after listening to a song that promoted murder in the music and lyrics ?

Why ? well I think of it as getting amped up getting the adrinaline pumping and mentally reinforcing the intent ?

And what is intristing is I think it can happen both ways hear a song that makes you pissed off and spark off a thought to make you act out.

Are some people have a thought already and just use the music to renforce their entent.

But either way music does have an impact on behavior as far as evil goes that is just a term I use you can replace that with good are bad reaction if you dont believe in the good and evil theory's.

But the topic Is Heavy Metal Music of the devil.....................

Well to me thats an incomplete statment I would word it like...

( Can Music itself be from the devil)and from what I see in the world my anwser is yes.

It can be pop music,metal, any music in my openion.

What is evil - well thats a more complicated question to anwser than the topic title.

There are more views abought that subject than probly the people that populate the earth.

JLS
Apr-22-2007, 09:40
But the topic Is Heavy Metal Music of the devil.....................

Well to me thats an incomplete statment I would word it like...

( Can Music itself be from the devil)and from what I see in the world my anwser is yes.

It can be pop music,metal, any music in my openion.

We agree, then. Heavy Metal(or any specific musical style) is not evil in and of itself. It's simply music(though you think it can be used for evil purposes(whatever that means)).


What is evil - well thats a more complicated question to anwser than the topic title.

There are more views abought that subject than probly the people that populate the earth.Perhaps. But it is necessary to know what evil is if you want to identify it in music or any other area of life. If you don't know what evil is, you can't even know if it exists...

Stronghold
Apr-23-2007, 03:31
We agree, then. Heavy Metal(or any specific musical style) is not evil in and of itself. It's simply music(though you think it can be used for evil purposes(whatever that means)).

Perhaps. But it is necessary to know what evil is if you want to identify it in music or any other area of life. If you don't know what evil is, you can't even know if it exists...


It can be evil in and of itself is my stand point .

The best definition that I can find at the molment that seems to suport with what I believe how to describe evil is.

The force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.

My belief evil originated from the tree of knowledge GENESIS 2,9

From a tree ? well trees are a form of nature the question probly most often asked is why did God put the tree there to begin with well my conclusion is that it was a test for Adam from God to prove his love and obediance.

And that is not only taking that definiton literaly but figurativly as well because it moved from the nature of a tree into human nature once sin was intuduced through disobediance which led to are curse of (Death) as human beings.

So to brake it down I believe evil is the spirituall death of man and sin is a direct result of that effect.

So I would look at the word (Evil)as a broad word to describe any and all actions of sin.

And you can probly google up the word (sin) are if you have never read a bibble before you can take a look their also and do some reading.

Take care.

JLS
Apr-23-2007, 06:17
It can be evil in and of itself is my stand point .

Well, you're contradicting yourself my friend. To say that heavy metal is evil in and of itself is the same as saying that all heavy metal is evil(simply by being heavy metal). That's what "in and of itself" means. In your last post, however, you claim that some music can be evil if it is used for evil purposes, regardless of what type of music it is. Maybe this is simply a communication problem, but these are clearly contradictory statements.


The best definition that I can find at the molment that seems to suport with what I believe how to describe evil is.

The force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.

My belief evil originated from the tree of knowledge GENESIS 2,9Sorry. I didn't realize I was speaking to a fundamentalist Christian. Encountering people who actually take the Bible literally is pretty uncommon where I live.


...the question probly most often asked is why did God put the tree there to begin with...Actually, the question probably most often asked is, "Are there really still people around who think the parables in the Bible are true historical events?".



So to brake it down I believe evil is the spirituall death of man and sin is a direct result of that effect.

So I would look at the word (Evil)as a broad word to describe any and all actions of sin. Fair enough.

This is a music forum, not a philosophy or theology forum so I won't make this a discussion about religion. Such a thread would be out of place, here, and probably a bit inappropriate.


And you can probly google up the word (sin) are if you have never read a bibble before you can take a look their also and do some reading.

Take care.I'm well aware of the concept.:smirk:

Just so you know...the Judeo-Christian Bible is not the only religious text that utilizes the idea of "sin". The Qur'an utilizes it in much the same fashion. Also, the Three Abrahamic religions are not the only ones to utilize "sin". It is quite common in monotheistic religions of all kinds.

Stronghold
Apr-23-2007, 08:09
Well, you're contradicting yourself my friend. To say that heavy metal is evil in and of itself is the same as saying that all heavy metal is evil(simply by being heavy metal). That's what "in and of itself" means. In your last post, however, you claim that some music can be evil if it is used for evil purposes, regardless of what type of music it is. Maybe this is simply a communication problem, but these are clearly contradictory statements.

Sorry. I didn't realize I was speaking to a fundamentalist Christian. Encountering people who actually take the Bible literally is pretty uncommon where I live.

Actually, the question probably most often asked is, "Are there really still people around who think the parables in the Bible are true historical events?".


Fair enough.

This is a music forum, not a philosophy or theology forum so I won't make this a discussion about religion. Such a thread would be out of place, here, and probably a bit inappropriate.

I'm well aware of the concept.:smirk:

Just so you know...the Judeo-Christian Bible is not the only religious text that utilizes the idea of "sin". The Qur'an utilizes it in much the same fashion. Also, the Three Abrahamic religions are not the only ones to utilize "sin". It is quite common in monotheistic religions of all kinds.


There is no controdiction there the term (In and of it self )refers to the song are LP in question reguardless of style of music meaning if you have a paticular song are LP that you believe to be evil that does not bring in the intire style of metal as a whole just the music in question which again is a personal openion.

Speaking again to content-which includes Heavy Metal songs that one persons openion may feall that it has evil content with reguards to single out suspect music from Heavy Metal but not as a whole deming all Heavy Metal music as evil but just the songs that warent such a label .

And if this thread has the referance to the Devil which it does than you can probly bet the word God are Jesus would enter into the picture someware since the word (devil) comes from the christian text of the bibble.

But its intristing you brought up the word fundamentalist its nothing more than a political word to me although the decription of a Christian fundamentalist seems to fit with most of my beliefs but not all.

I just read and no my bibble I feall my belief in Jesus Christ is a personal one the only agenda I have really is to share the good word of Christ but not to convert your political way of thinking because my belief and tresure so to speak is for the life after even though I try to live like Jesus as best I can here on Earth.

And as far as the parables go I think its erelavent really if thay were true storys but the actuall story itself and the mesage is what is important to understand Jesus.

Im a fan of Sience I think it goes hand in hand with the bible I dont think sience has it all right though as far as evilution but in another million years if we still look like we do than will no the awnser to that question wont we we wont be hear and I believe Jesus might come back sooner than that by the looks of things but we will have to see Hahah.

Take care.

Conservationist
Jun-09-2007, 07:22
Was this association with the Devil just a way of making the music more popular?

No, it's metaphor for a Romantic notion of rejecting certain popular dogmas and accepting certain existential ones.

Why I am Not a Satanist (http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/satanist/)
Black Metal as Art (http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/art/)

And the forum thread...

Satanic Imagery or Satanic Beliefs? (http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/YaBB.cgi?board=metal_talk;action=display;num=11278 47990)

All come from experienced underground metal people. For mainstream heavy metal you'd have to ask someone else, but for black metal/death metal the coverage is complete at the above links.