Trying to surprise someone

I, being a very unaccomplished organist, am trying to surprise the music director at my church by learning Widor's Toccata from his Organ Symphony no. 5. I've been learning it since about Monday, and actually it's coming along very well. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask here, since the only person I know who has played it is our music director, and of course I can't ask him! What fingering have you used in the measures where the left hand is playing 16th notes, especially the measures such as:



Do you use 1 2 1 2.... or do you really try to work out the 345 fingers by using 1 2 1 3..... ? The latter felt much more awkward, but possibly more accurate after a lot of practice. The former (1 2 1 2...) felt much more accurate in the short run (and playing slower), but seems as if it will be riskier once I can get it up to speed. Any suggestions will, of course, be greatly appreciated.


The other questions I have about this piece deal more with the registration, and dealing with changing the volume of the organ while playing (in other words, things I'm not incredibly concerned with right now ), but if you have anything to add dealing with those topics feel free!

Once again, thanks for reading and thanks for any help you can give!

Hi PH,

I use 1 2 1 2 3 5 3 2 1 for the both of the left hand sequences in the view of your post - the avoidance of the 4th finger is intentional, as it does make it more difficult, at least with my XL hands. I use this piece as the Prelude on Easter Sunday.

Registration:
Not knowing your stoplist or manual configuration, or the acoustical properties of your church (reverberation time, etc), it becomes somewhat difficult to suggest actual stops for registration.

Mainly to start, basic Foundations stops to 4'. Maybe a Gt Manual 16' if its not too clumsy (fat or hooty) sounding. Start piece on Gt and have a light 8' reed in the pedal.

When the piece changes to D major with the 16th notes still in the RH, switch to the Ch manual. When the LF takes the 16th notes, both hands go to the Sw.

When the pedal part returns with the C#-F, and C-F, and B-F, the RH can go back to the Gt manual while the LF stays on the Sw. The LF can Return to Gt in the next measure. when the pedal plays octaves (need to have bigger registration here for this, but not tutti, as you still need somewhere to go for the last few bars).

I don't have at my disposal the page numbers to reference - I memorized this piece a long time ago, and the music has, well ... gone to happier places :smirk:

I do this piece every year on Easter Sunday for the prelude on a 2 manual Möller that has only 4 general pistons below the Sw manual. There are no other pistons or toe studs! I do my initial registration manually, then use the Crescendo for the addition/subtraction of stops. Having played this instrument every week for the past 24 years, I know in what order the stops come on and go off by total "foot feel position" of the crescendo shoe. As the organ is now 27 years old, I keep pressing for an updated console and some additional pipe ranks.

I applaud :clap: your efforts in learning this piece - once learned, it does become easier to play.

Parry, if you PM me, I'll give you my email address so that you might send the stoplist and I could be a bit more specific with respect to registrations.

Lars

ParryHotter said:

The other questions I have about this piece deal more with the registration, and dealing with changing the volume of the organ while playing (in other words, things I'm not incredibly concerned with right now ), but if you have anything to add dealing with those topics feel free!

Click to expand...

Hi Parry,

You might find some answers here. Feel free to react!

I will agree with Krummhorn for the fingering. It makes the movement of the hand more comfortable and convenient. This piece has to be played fast and convenience is something very important for that. So I will propose you to put the fingering 1 2 1 2. The registration of this piece is also something very important. I had a record with Pierre Cochereau, who was a very famous organist at Notre Dame of Paris. He played that at the Grand Jeu of the instrument and he did the same thing as Krummhorn proposed for the change of the manuals. He finally had the Tutti of the organ (and this is an enormous organ put in an enormous Cathedral also) at the end of the piese. How is your organ and also what are the dimension of your church?

Diaphone Profundo 64 said:

I had a record with Pierre Cochereau, who was a very famous organist at Notre Dame of Paris. He played that at the Grand Jeu of the instrument and he did the same thing as Krummhorn proposed for the change of the manuals. He finally had the Tutti of the organ (and this is an enormous organ put in an enormous Cathedral also) at the end of the piese.

Click to expand...

Chris, I hope you missed not a greek TV programme with him playing in this organ. It was about 25 years ago...

Cochereau's broadcasts

pb05 said:

Chris, I hope you missed not a greek TV programme with him playing in this organ. It was about 25 years ago...

Click to expand...

I was very young (about 12-13 years old) but I remember 3 of them. There was a National Television Broadcast called "Classical Music". Three of them were with Cocherau. Two of them were recitals and the other one was a lesson with one of his students. They were terrific. Cocherau was a grand proffesor of the organ. It was a pitty that he died so young...

acc said:

Hi Parry,

You might find some answers here. Feel free to react!

Click to expand...

Thanks, acc for an excellent explanation on this subject. Although I don't have the luxury of "ventils" on my church organ, I will certainly apply those registration techniques as much as possible the next time I do the Widor.

That's what I like about this forum ... Splendid posts about a wide variance of subject material. Guess I will never be too old to learn about a new method of interpretation in organ music.

Lars