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Rosanne
Aug-22-2004, 00:01
Does anyone know anything about Viscount organs? Our church is purchasing a new organ and we are investigating the DB5. Is it a "full" sound or is it tinny? We don't know where to go to test one. Our church is located in Wind Gap PA which is in eastern Pennsylvania. I would appreciate some feedback. Thanks https://www.magle.dk/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif

megodenas
Sep-09-2004, 00:45
I will be very short : bad sound, bad quality, bad reliability and... too expansive. Even wood is to usable to burn. Sorry!

Marc

Frederik Magle
Oct-01-2004, 14:22
Hmmm... I have never played nor heard a "Viscount Organ" so I can not comment, but please let us know what you decided to buy (and why) https://www.magle.dk/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Robert Bell
Jan-04-2005, 17:46
I used to sell Viscount Organs and have visited the Italian factories. They build organs at a reasonable price and I know of an orgaqn still in use that was installed in 1979.
The Viscount DB5 I own is an excellent substitute for the Hammond B3. Sound is good and Leslie simulation is good.
One tip. If you are using stereo speaker keep them close together or the Leslie simulation becomes just too wide and becomes a wide vibrato. Remember you are trying to reproduce the sound of microphones about 3 feet apart.

megodenas
Jan-19-2005, 12:41
I am sure that you are very satisfied for this DB5 model from Viscount, because you are in a particular situation : you have buyed an electronic organ who is a copy of another electronic organ. Obviously and logically, you obtain an "electronic organ sound" and both Hammond B3 and Viscount DB5 are built to do that and nothing else.

So, I think it is necessary to remember you that we are here in a "PIPE" organ forum and we normally talk about pipe organs. When Rosanne posted her question about Viscount Organ, I logically answered about the church or classical organ models from Viscount, that is to say, for example, the Jubilate models, the Prestige models or the Concerto models, all built in the aim to imitate or simulate pipe organ, with sound extract from true pipes sampled. In few word, copies of church organs. And it is only in this domain that I said "I do not like the Viscount sound" because there are other brands building digital organs with pipe organ sounds sampled whose do that very very very better, like Johannus or Allen.

If your need is to have an electronic organ that simulate another electronic organ, It is obvious that you have 99 percent chance to be satisfied and happy. But simulating a pipe organ with digitised sound is another problem, more hard to achieve and since today, very very few brands can do that, and inside these brands, very few models can do that. To have the best achievement in digital simulation pipe organ sound, samples must be very fine, precise and perfect. Nothing to be compared with the old Hammond sound more easy to copy and to reproduce.

This picture of the DB5 Viscount organ shows that the console has nothing to compare with traditional pipe organ console.

D P Werner
Jun-18-2005, 05:02
Rosanne,

Could you tell me which brand of organ your church decided to buy?

Thanks,
Dave Werner werner@asia.com

rdm38
Jun-20-2005, 15:41
Great Marc,
finally a decent answer.

Anyway I see you list in your answer older models of Viscount, I suggest you to try the lastest Prestige series or the CM100 Expander, maybe you will find some interesting stuff.

rdm38
Jun-20-2005, 15:43
Hey Marc,
you should not be so short in answering, it seems you have just prejudices and not an opinion.

By the way, what do you mean with "expansive" ?

Cheers

Andrea
Jul-14-2005, 23:18
I have a Jubilate 332.

As mechanical point of view it's perfect for studio.
Infact is the most used, here in Italy, between students.

Sound is not the best one the quality is like soundblaster soundfonts !!
Try Prestige, Johannes are better but are more expensive.

Personally I drive, with the Viscount, a PC with Hauptwerk program and sampled sounds.

Nadav
Jul-16-2005, 18:42
AS an israeli i was not lucky to practice real pipe organs
often.
my electric anlogue organ is an old viscount .
it is ok .
I simply suggest that you try the specific model that you consider buying . if you can't do it yourself ,take someone with good ear and some knowledge about organs.

luca
Aug-05-2005, 16:54
Message for Andrea: Are You italian boy? Anche io sono italiano,
avrei alcune informazioni da chiederti riguardo lo jubilate 332 e sopratutto il programma hauptwerk. Potresti gentilmente scrivere alla mia mail?

eufonio@tiscali.it

General message: I have a Ahlborn sl 300, and it works fine.
The price is low, and is possible for connect interactive programmer at this organ.
The suond is good for home practice.

Thank

D P Werner
Aug-11-2005, 07:53
I have taken delivery of a Viscount Jubilate 330 Deluxe about a month ago. I am very pleased with it. It sounds as much like a pipe organ as can something that speaks through a pair of amplifiers and four console-mounted speakers. As for color of stops and balance between stops and divisions, if it were a pipe organ, it would be an excellent pipe organ. This is an issue of value. Megodenas (Marc Giacone, for whom I have great respect) disparagingly compares Viscount to Allen, but model for model the equivalent Allen costs 75% more! Is it 75% better? In the small two manual models I think Allen is even inferior in some ways. Marc also negatively compares the cabinet work to Johannus. The excellent Johannus cabinet work is uniqwue to their Rembrandt line. The Johannus Sweelink and Opus lines are very ordinary and the Studio line (same price as Viscount Jubilate 330) is one of the strangest minimalist things ever and hardly qualifies as a "console". The cabinet work of my Viscount exceeded my expecations and the console has several fine touches I did not expect for the price. The question is not simply "is Viscount good?" The question is "is Viscount good value?" I enjoy the look and sound of my Jubilate 330. It is clear, musical, authentic and even beautiful.

luca
Aug-11-2005, 10:31
Hello Msr. Werner;
I am much content that you satisfied of its Visount Jubilate. I have a question: he could send to my email (eufonio@tiscali.it) some small played musical fragment with its Viscount? I ask them this courtesy for being able to appreciate the qualities of the samples of its organ, and to understand the difference with my Ahlborn sl300.

Thanks

Regards.

harfo32
Oct-08-2005, 21:14
The Viscount organs are no better nor worse than most of the mass produced instruments. Most of them have nice flutes and celestes but fail dismally on Principal/Montres/Diapason sound - whatever you wish to call it, and anything above mf. I have a Jubilate instrument with an Ahlborn Archive attached - it's nice for the Corno di Bassetto, variety of flute stops, Fanfare Trumpet and Pedal 32's! Good for practising on and the final sound depends to a large extent on the amplifier and speaker systems, but the full organ sound is a bit of a jangle. If you spend a lot on the amplifiers and speakers digital organs sound much better. They cost more, too. I played a Copemann Hart for a church service in London recently which included a "pre service recital" - an excellent instrument. II/30 aproximately - not large, but very good quality. But the star must be Graham Blyth's Veritas organ! I suggest you listen to Graham playing Bach and romantic music on the organs in the Church of the Ascension, Buffalo or the concert hall in his house - the latter a IV/150 instrument. I played it a few weeks ago. It is fantastic for an electronic organ! Not in the same league as Torkildsen or Fuhrer, but a very convincing imitation. Roger Fisher playing Copemann Hart is also worth a moment of your time. You can hear these organs on
http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/
Allen's are much more expensive than Viscount for what you get, and I don't think they are markedly better - though I maintain an even handed approach on my website!
You can hear quite a wide variety of digital instruments, including my Viscount and some larger Allen's and, at the top end of the range, organs by Veritas, Copeman Hart and Phoenix. Actually if you are looking for value for money I'd go for Phoenix.
I have no vested interest in any of theses companies nor do I have an axe to grind with any company producing digital instruments, but some are almost as good as the real thing. Other's less so.
Good luck with your venture!
John Foss

yury habrus
Mar-09-2006, 18:09
My churh where I work posesses 3 small Viscount organs and one large Ahlborn organ. And I play on large Viscount models in our Music Academy in Minsk. Sorry, I don't remember titles of models. I also play on Rieger-Kloss pipe organ 34/III/P at St. Trinity catholic church. So, I have enough experience to judge that sound of Viscount instruments is more bad than good. And I think every organist can never confuses their sound with the sound of a real pipe organ despite definite charm of "artificial" sound of Viscount instruments. I found my Ahlborn instrument much better in sound although it has more modest disposition than larger Viscount instrument in Music Academy. I find "my" Ahlborn organ the best electronic organ I ever played and heard in my city. But I can nothing say about it cost.

Choirmaster
May-01-2006, 06:10
I recently bought a second hand (1991) digital Viscount Opera two manual organ for my home. I am very happy with it indeed. Not many people can afford or have the space for a pipe organ but digital instruments allow people to practice at home, which is invaluable and I believe instrumental in keeping classical organ playing alive.:grin:

_music_4_ever_
Jul-20-2006, 23:07
In my school, the organ that we use is a Viscount!
Well, it's better than a broken one! looool

davidbirchenough
Aug-28-2006, 13:12
viscount mmm. Not my first choice. Though like many electronic organs good external speakers help. At Bramcote crematoruim (where i was the organist for 4 years) we purchased a viscount prestige 5. After a month of tweaking the stop balances and retuning the organ to the chapel ( removing the chiff on some stops adding more harmonic to the reeds) It created a resonable english romantic. Though I could never get the vox angelica and the gamba to work together. Also the bass reeds wern't up to much so we brought an albhorn 20 stop midi box which did the trick. 4 32's on a 2 manual loads of fun.

Diaphone Profundo 64
Oct-09-2006, 21:38
I have installed at my residence a fantastic Johannus Rembrandt 3090. It is very difficult sometimes to understand if the organ is real pipe or digital sampling. The organ has also a magnificent effect called Cathedral, that is produced by Johannus only and is suitable for its own organs. The organ is Real Time and produces the sound from the speakers like the real pipe organs, i.e. C is produced from the left, C# from the right, etc. If the organ is connected with big speakers it sounds very well. The bass notes of the Principals have delay at the sounding, like real ones. The reeds also sound like the real ones. The compound stops are produced rank by rank and not just one compound sound for a single stop. This is a terrific job!!!! I propose it to every one. You can here samples at the Organs and Organists Online (http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com) at Couperin's Offertoire sur les Grands Jeux, that is played by me at my organ.

Krummhorn
Oct-09-2006, 23:43
Hi Diaphone,

Impressive sound - just listening to this now from feed on O&OO. You did this recording at home? Used the "Cathedral" effect I presume? The pedal stops are quite convincing, too. Congrats on having such a fine instrument at your residence. A good many of us here in the US will usually have a piano at home, but for organ practice we use the church organs where we play normally.

Diaphone Profundo 64
Oct-10-2006, 07:43
Dear Krummhorn

The sound of this organ is magnificent, as you had realised. The Cathedral is used at this recording, that had been done at my home with my computer. You are very lucky to live in a country like yours, as you have thousands of organs to listen and practice. I will refer you this fact and you will understand how Greece behaves to Organ: the whole country has only 14 organs from 7 to 22 stops including the big Klais one at the Athens COncert Hall with IV/76/6080 pipes. I play the organ at the Athens German Church that is an 73 years old Steinmeyer with II/16 and, of course, a lot of problems, even had been restored in 2004. I am very sad for this fact. Organ is not taught nowhere in Greece, by the meaning of a complete subject. Greece does not provides diplomas and the only one Diploma is given comes from the Associated Board of the RSM of London. We are only 2-3 theachers on Athens and you can understand what happens....

james_stevens
Dec-29-2006, 05:22
Hey guys, I just came across an old Viscount VS-20 electronic organ. I was wondering if anybody has ever encountered one. It looks pretty much like a beginner's keyboard, but I was curious as to the value of one of these, and if it might even be a valuable tool to a recording artist? I don't know, it just piqued my interest. Thanks.

cbakes
Feb-14-2007, 02:02
I don't quite understand Marc's criticism of the Viscount company. Of all of the companies our church dealt with, Viscount's reps were the least likely to criticize others' products. Allen reps disparaged competitors. Rodgers reps disparaged competitors. The only reps we found who brought a grace and elegance to the process were the Viscount representatives. (Frankly, we found the Allen reps to be particularly obnoxious in their statements and characterizations of others' products.)

Our parish, located in a working-class and poor demographic, but has been made very vibrant through excellent music ("social justice through art" we call it), and we elected to purchase a Viscount with accu-pipe sound. We are adding a rank of pipes.

The sound from the Viscount is extraordinary. Though our church is acoustically excellent, this is not the only reason the Viscount is so excellent: it is simply a beautiful-sounding instrument.

I wonder whether Marc works for Allen? His comments are not unlike what we heard from several Allen reps about multiple other competitors. A total turn-off.

hsmoller
Feb-16-2007, 13:57
We had to make a tough decision here in the Philippines and it was a matter of getting our foot in the door of churches to graduate from their Yamaha Electones to a better instrument. Here it is really a matter of economics and it is hard to sell the top of the line instrument to churches. We are still feverishly working on churches which have pipe organs to get them restored. One job got going because the console we installed will add to the pipework without adding pipes. We did choose Johannus as the prices were much more reasonable and could integrate with pipework at an affordable price.
We are happy with even the budget models but do find that the speaker
choices and installation can make a big difference in sound quality much the same way as with pipe organs. But our goal is to get real organs back into the churches here and hopefully when the economy gets better we will have a flood of business. Any organists willing to relocate to help us in our mission will be welcomed!
Harv

acc
Feb-18-2007, 17:40
I wonder whether Marc works for Allen?

Looking at avatars, it appears that the Marc who posted here under the nickname megodenas is the Marc Giacone who posts on The Organ Forum (http://www.organforum.com) under the nickname marakas.

So if you look at this discussion (http://organforum.com/forums/thread/4119.aspx), it becomes quite obvious that he doesn't think much better of Allen than of Viscount!

Krummhorn
Feb-28-2007, 00:35
... Allen reps disparaged competitors. Rodgers reps disparaged competitors. The only reps we found who brought a grace and elegance to the process were the Viscount representatives. (Frankly, we found the Allen reps to be particularly obnoxious in their statements and characterizations of others' products.)

I wonder whether Marc works for Allen? His comments are not unlike what we heard from several Allen reps about multiple other competitors. A total turn-off.

This is indeed interesting - I used to work in Institutional Sales for an Allen dealer in So. California. We were implicitly told that at no time are we ever to make any dispariging remarks about competitors.

We would work with an organ committee and simply let them hear for themselves the ensemble - we would get asked about brand x, y or z and would gently reply, "go listen for yourselves" ... most all came back and purchased the Allen.

Now, that was the early 70's and they had no real competition in the digital world - times have changed since then, but I would contend that it is still the firm policy of Allen Organ Company (USA) to refrain from making such blasphemous statements. And no, I am not an Allen rep - I am simply a church organist/recitalist that plays a Möller Pipe Organ in my church ... nothing beats the 'real thing'!!

To keep this post on-topic, I have played a Viscount ... about 10 years ago ... it was pretty nice in the strings and flutes, an 'ok' principal although way too 'chiffy', but the reeds were 'thin' and without any lower fundamentals, but that could have been how it was voiced.

Kh

hsmoller
Feb-28-2007, 04:16
I think the issue of aggressiveness of sales would vary from dealer to dealer.
Not particularly the brand. I can attest to the So, Cal dealer as not being aggressive except in 1 instance in 1996. Also there can be a certain amount of influence from the manufacturer but in fairness have not seen that from Allen.
Again as far as Viscounts or any other brand a lot depends on what is hung on it at the output and the room and speaker location. Much the same way with pipes (but without speakers of course)
Harv

skinnerphile
Mar-14-2007, 05:12
Since you are in Pennsylvania, why not consider a real, e.g. pipe organ, from Organ Historical Society? You will ultimately not be happy with any electronic, no matter how many whistles and bells, because they simply don't sound right. In my experience, the louder they're played, the less convincing the tone becomes.

cbakes
Apr-09-2007, 09:16
Our parish (All Hallows, Sacramento) just purchased a Viscount four-manual, after a long search for the right organ, from the right company, with the right service and sales people.

We are dazzled by the magnificence of this organ. An adjacent parish just bought an Allen Organ, a company we dismissed out of hand as difficult to deal with, and one which poorly grasps the circumstances of parishes who have multiple priorities. We found Allen representatives to be abrasive, arrogant, and too dollar-driven to make us comfortable with Allen's awareness of music as art. Simply dreadful to deal with.

Perhaps it is the rarity of a Viscount in our area, but our organ has received much more attention than the Allen, and dazzles all who hear it. We are doing Camille Saint Saens' Symphony No. 3 (organ), and I can assure you that the Viscount is up to the task.

falcon1
Apr-09-2007, 12:31
cbakes, congrats with your new viscount organ!

About a year ago I was thinking about buying Viscount as a practice organ at my home but I delayed it, not because it was bad but rather because budget issues. :)

Also I must make a note that most electronic organs today can be connected to computer using midi I/O and can access even more realistic sounds with program called Hauptwerk and organ samples created for that.

Again Congrats!

NEB
Apr-09-2007, 12:48
I'm thinking about Viscount as a practice organ as well. As always in these things tho it's a trade-off between the quality of the instrument and the (relatively meagre in the grand scheme of things) budget available (sadly).

How much are these electronic instruments dependent on the speaker/sound systems used to run them?

phulshof
Apr-18-2007, 00:02
Well, as said, there's a huge difference even within the brandnames. I think you need to take a look at your budget, and the organs you could buy for that budget, and then make a comparison. As an example, I'm trying to decide on my next home organ, with a budget of about 9000-10000 Euro. The options I'm considering are:

Content D5600
Johannus Sweelinck 25
Eminent DCS 375C
Viscount/Domus Prestige 60

Any thoughts on a choice between these 4, and why?

falcon1
Apr-18-2007, 01:26
phulshof, if you have a home organ which has Midi I/O then I would consider buying computer program called Hauptwerk. See here! (http://www.crumhorn-labs.com)
You do need a powerful computer but still it's cheaper and you can give your old home organ a new life. :)

phulshof
Apr-18-2007, 07:22
phulshof, if you have a home organ which has Midi I/O then I would consider buying computer program called Hauptwerk. See here! (http://www.crumhorn-labs.com)
You do need a powerful computer but still it's cheaper and you can give your old home organ a new life. :)

Well, to be quite honest: I haven't been able to play much due to CTS these past 2 years (it's a lot better now), and my previous organ died 1.5 years ago. Nevertheless, I've bookmarked your suggestion, and I'll be sure to have a good look at it. :)

NEB
Apr-18-2007, 12:41
Thanks for the reply Phulshof.

Falcon,

If it's all on a computer how do you manage adding say a single stop while in mid flow - do you need to go to the computer to do all that kind of thing?

And do the push button presets still work?

What about the individual drawstops - Are they still operational but with the Hauptwerk 'sounds'?

Sorry - I really don't know much about these electronic instruments and computer simulation programmes...

falcon1
Apr-19-2007, 01:38
Thanks for the reply Phulshof.

Falcon,

If it's all on a computer how do you manage adding say a single stop while in mid flow - do you need to go to the computer to do all that kind of thing?

And do the push button presets still work?

What about the individual drawstops - Are they still operational but with the Hauptwerk 'sounds'?

Sorry - I really don't know much about these electronic instruments and computer simulation programmes...
Hi NEB, well I'm no expert but I know that if your organ has MIDI I/O then it should be possible to program those buttons to use with the computer program.
Yes, you can add stops while in mid flow. :)

NEB
Apr-19-2007, 09:32
Thanks Falcon - appreciate the info. :)

nullogik
May-01-2007, 16:17
I have a bad experience with a Viscount Opera organ at my old school. It wasn't an old model, probably only a couple of years old but boy did it sound so synthetic and it was digital not analogue. It wasn't a budget model either, I would probably say it was mid range with three manuals and about 50-60 stops (though I've never counted them).

Ok, I now digital organs don't sound as good as pipe organs but still there are some fantastic ones around from Rodgers and Allen that sound extremely good.

This thing from Viscount sounded like a $150 Yamaha keyboard. None of the sounds sounded very authentic with a lot of disturbance from the speakers (which are built in, probably explains why). None of the stops had any "character" they all sounded rather flat and wooden. Its really hard to describe the sound from it without you hearing it but all I can say was that it was very synthetic sounding and comparable to a cheap eleectronic keyboard. No matter how I played the thing, it made my playing sound really wooden and characterless, even my teacher said this!

The keys were made from a very light weight brittle plastic and had none of the solidity that I have come across with from Allen or Rodgers, with very little feedback.

The pedals on the pedal board did not have much travel, thus offering little feedback ie. the pedal travel was very shallow.

The volume controls (foot) ones were extremely loose so, that a slight touch and the volume would shoot up to 100%, it was difficult to get anything between 0 and 100%. Whereas on the Allen and Rodgers instruments I've tried they've all had good resistance helping to the player to get the right volume.

Now you're probably going to say that because its a school instrument it lives a hard life. Well I can tell you that hardly anyone touched the thing and if they had to it was as a last resort.

Everyone, and I say everyone, always choose the Allen organ in the chapel over the Viscount. Once the chapel was in use and I was about to take an organ exam, the only other alternative was the Viscount, I went crazy as I knew I could fail because of that instrument. Thankfully, the chapel was made free and I achieved an excellent score.

Granted this was the only Viscount I have tried (I'm sure they've improved somewhat in ten years or so) but none the less I was less than impressed with build quality, sound reproduction and the overall feel of the thing - first impressions count, and this did no favours.

Personally, I would only ever consider an Allen or Rodgers (with Allen being my preference), but I'm sure a lot of people would disagree but thats my opinion.

hsmoller
May-02-2007, 06:02
Alot of the organs that were made in those years from the "other" manufacturers were not that good structurally. But anytime one expects quality sound coming from inside the console is expecting way too much. So even an Allen or Rodgers with a built in speaker system would sound pretty bad. We have been dealling with Johannus recently with 4 installations under our belt and I feel the overall craftsmanship as well as sound quality on
their least expensive instruments are quite good as long as one uses external speakers as the primary source of sound. I would agree about the Rodgers and Allen. I have owned an Allen for several years and it is really quality through and through. But in this part of the world the new Rodgers and Allen are too expensive to buy for most churches who can barely afford Yamaha Electones. The better models of Johannus really have that same quality and it is more affordable here and that is why we are using them. But the speaker system and the acoustic environment will make or break an organ.
As the sounds become more pipe like then it is really important to consider these things.
Harv

nullogik
May-02-2007, 15:37
Alot of the organs that were made in those years from the "other" manufacturers were not that good structurally. But anytime one expects quality sound coming from inside the console is expecting way too much. So even an Allen or Rodgers with a built in speaker system would sound pretty bad. We have been dealling with Johannus recently with 4 installations under our belt and I feel the overall craftsmanship as well as sound quality on
their least expensive instruments are quite good as long as one uses external speakers as the primary source of sound. I would agree about the Rodgers and Allen. I have owned an Allen for several years and it is really quality through and through. But in this part of the world the new Rodgers and Allen are too expensive to buy for most churches who can barely afford Yamaha Electones. The better models of Johannus really have that same quality and it is more affordable here and that is why we are using them. But the speaker system and the acoustic environment will make or break an organ.
As the sounds become more pipe like then it is really important to consider these things.
Harv

I had kinda guessed that integrated speakers would seriously affect performance and agree that from whatever manufacturer, Allen or otherwise the sound is never going to be as good as those from an external set of speakers.

I haven't tried any recent Johannus models but I would be interested in hearing some opinions on them.

However I agree that out of the digital organs I have used, the best overall build quality and sound reproduction has to come from Allen followed closely by Rodgers. On some of the Rodgers the feedback from the keys hasn't been so good and they feel a little brittle, but then these were the bargain basement end and probably should be expected, likewise Allen budget models would probably be the same.

Still I am an Allen man through and through, and would love to get my hands on one of their Renassiance 80 stop three manual organs :) Just one thing holding me back...my bank balance!!!

hsmoller
May-06-2007, 10:12
I just wanted to add that I have been able to get good sound out of most brands of organs. The easiest have been the Rodgers from the Analogs right up to the present generation. The Allen I have is the MDS 317 EX Special and it is a joy to play. It is the last of the screwdriver specials as everything after that required the computer (which I would prefer) but the sounds are really as good as the Renaissance series and GW. This is the only such instrument here in the Philippines and it is an attention getter. Unfortunately the prices are way above what almost all people can afford.
Even for me it was expensive and the instrument was used and without original speakers.
For budget purposes we have been adapting old Yamaha Electone type instruments to the Artisan system as we can bring the price way down and the sound quality is quite good.
Harv

Albert
May-13-2007, 18:29
How much are these electronic instruments dependent on the speaker/sound systems used to run them?

The sound systems are the necessary improvement to create almost decent sound from a digital instrument. Get as many channels of sound as you can.

My home instrument (in my avatar and on my profile) is a Johannus Opus 10 (26/II/P). In no way is it as good as a pipe organ, but the sound compares favourably to an Allen R270 a friend purchased.

The stop list is limited, but the samples are good, and it came with four channels of amplification and external speakers. The external speakers are the reason the sound is tolerable from the instrument. On the console speakers it sounds, frankly, terrible.

My advice? Buy the external speakers and a smaller organ if you must to keep the price down. I really miss not having 16's on the manuals. I really miss not having three manuals. I don't miss being stuck with only console speakers.

NEB
May-14-2007, 13:14
I've now tried a couple of instruments, (viscount and Compton both small ones). They seem quite well equipped for their size, but hardly any kind of replacement for the real thing. But to practice on? Better than no practice instrument even if the sound quality does lack that something...?

cbakes
Sep-04-2007, 22:10
All: In lauding the Viscount installation at All Hallows, Sacramento, I should have mentioned with emphasis that we have an extensive array of external speakers, ranging from an extremely large bass speaker to nearly-as-large speakers placed in locations throughout the front of the church. Additionally, the church orchestra (55-piece) performed Camille Saint-Saëns' Symphony No. 3 [organ] to a packed house [720] and great acclaim. So if you know the piece, you now have a sense of what the Viscount is capable of. [We installed the Viscount Symphonia, four-manual, with CM-100 midi box.]

Z. Denis Blazek
Jan-18-2008, 15:51
Hi there - could anybody kindly let me copy the wiring diagram of Viscount DB5 electronic organ (B3 clone) or give me a hint where to find it please? Thanks - Denis





[edit: regulator merged post into this forum area for subject continuity]

musicalis
Jan-18-2008, 17:37
Really sorry but I cannot help you. I am afraid your search may be difficult.
When I bought my Hammond organ, a long time ago, it has been very hard to get the electric diagram from the manufacturer.
J-Paul

Drawstop
May-27-2008, 16:18
I play a 2-yr old Viscount Prestige ll in my uk church. We have a 4-part adult choir (no children allowed in choir under any conditions) and sing Parish Communion of six hymns and service setting, with Choral Evensong on the first Sunday evening of the month. The organ with it's reasonable spec is ideal and copes with every piece played on it. It replaced a miserable pipe organ which I would not have played for any money and the congregation think it is marvellous (as does the organist!). In a corner of my sitting room at home I have an almost identical organ (by another maker) and the pistons on both organs are set the same so practice is no problem.
I look after a friend who has progressive MS and when I want to play in the early hours of the morning I put on the headphones and I'm in my own wonderful world.
Needless to say I have spent quite a while altering the parameters of the stops so that it really does sound like a pipe organ. And it gives me a great deal of pleasure.
BUT - I would love to have a large (50 stops at least) pipe organ in an accoustically good building. My church and I are happy with the Visount and that is all that matters.
Our local cathedral assistant organist played a local church's 1878 early English organ of ten stops and said how wonderful it was. I notice he went back to his 4-manual electric console very quickly.
Admittedly my church's Viscount is 3-manuals and 46 speaking stops with lots of pistons and controls and does all I want. Widor sounds great. Every note of every stop is instantly adjustable as are all the stops and the total timbre. And, using headphones, I can practice whilst the bellringers enjoy themselves. What pipe organ can offer these facilities? I should be most interested to hear what other organist have to say.
Drawstop.

Robert Bell
Jun-06-2008, 13:50
I used to sell Viscount organs in the 1970s and some of the organs are still in regular use - now almost 30 years old. I visited the Viscount Factories in Italy and they were clearly mass produced at that time - Woodwork, Electronics,Plastics made in different factories amplifiers built by out-workers and the whole lot brought to another factory to be assembled into the finished organ and some were sent as flatpack to USA.

The current range of organs are quite good, giving a choice of sample for most stops. But with ANY digital organ you should spend at least 50% of the cost of the organ on speakers. The organ I currently play is a Copeman Hart 4 Manual 105 rank and we have 16 speaker cabinets. It is tremendously verstatile and thunderous although not too loud for the church.

nullogik
Jun-17-2008, 15:47
I personally think that early Viscounts pre-mid 1990s should be avoided.

Build quality was poor and reliability wasn't great when you compared them to an Allen or Rodgers of equivalent vintage. Moreover, parts for the earlier Viscounts are now nigh-on impossible to get hold of.

That said, credit where its due, reliability and build quality has improved in leaps and bounds particularly in the last five years or so. These organs are now good solid instruments and are seriously worth considering (especially for those on lower budgets <£20k)

greatcyber
Jun-20-2008, 20:38
Hi there - could anybody kindly let me copy the wiring diagram of Viscount DB5 electronic organ (B3 clone) or give me a hint where to find it please? Thanks - Denis





[edit: regulator merged post into this forum area for subject continuity]


Here are a couple of links for owner's/service guides: http://www.mitatechs.com/serviceowner.html
http://www.pugetsoundorgan.com/

Hope this is helpful.

Stephen

raymondo30837
Jun-20-2008, 20:50
Hello, I agree with choirmaster. Ok its not a Pipe Organ but an enhancment in any home of an organist who no longer has access to the former. Well, I think so. Regards Raymond:)

ps Think young, sadly life is so short.

raymondo30837
Jun-20-2008, 21:01
Further my friends, note my comments in other threads. I found Viscount to be a very friendly and helpfull company. For both technical and general help. Raymond:)

Brabo
Sep-10-2008, 20:41
Does anyone know where I might find a (complete) handbook online for the Viscount Vivace 50 Deluxe? Information must include how to change voices & styles.

Many thanks.

Brabo

tegshee
Sep-16-2008, 15:44
Does anyone know where I might find a (complete) handbook online for the Viscount Vivace 50 Deluxe? Information must include how to change voices & styles.

Many thanks.

Brabo Hello, you can find it here (http://www.viscount.it/files/manuali/eng/Vivace%20prima%20serie%20dlx%28I+GB+D+F%20+NL.pdf) in the official Viscount site.
Have a nice day!!

Corno Dolce
Sep-16-2008, 15:48
Aloha tegshee,

Welcome aboard! Please do make yourself feel right at home and stay for a spell.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce :):):)

Brabo
Sep-18-2008, 11:15
Dear Tegshee,

Many thanks! How very kind of you. This information was not on the Viscount UK website (why not, I know not), and I never contemplated looking at the manufacturer's Italian website. So, again, many thanks!

Brabo

tegshee
Sep-19-2008, 16:02
Thanks for the welcome and you're welcome to Brabo!
:)

Drawstop
Nov-16-2008, 10:14
Hi - I have just done 6-months on a Viscount - the position of the inter-manual couplers needs sorting out as they are at the right hand end of the manuals and not where they should be - on the left. Several times I cancelled everything off by pressing the HR piston thinking it was the
Sw to Gt. Tone was not bad though there are better electronic organs. I know - I play one!
Regards
Drawstop

FelixLowe
Nov-02-2009, 15:35
Hello there,

Have you visited a German link with a long playlist of organ works played on the Viscount organ? The link is: http://www.sakralorgelwelt.de/viscount/klangbeispiele/index.html.

Because it is extremely rare to be able to hear a pipe organ of the Italian Baroque school, please, if any one can, comment on the authenticity of the pipe simulation of Viscount.

It seems that the Viscounts playing the songs at the above link do have reasonably good articulation. But can any one help comment on the Mixture and the reeds? Are they genuine-sounding or do they sound fake? I am not familiar with the sounds of some of the reeds playing. Do you think some of the reeds are Medieval instead of Baroque?

Also, can any one identify what the reed is in the first solo voice of J S Bach's Wachet auf? Is it in fact a Cornet V? The second solo voice seems like a Medieval reed. It sounds like a very raspy short-length reed blaring.

Generally, some Medieval reeds can sound quite harsh, unlike the Baroque or the concert hall classical organs.

Felix

Orgue1
Nov-03-2009, 02:03
We have just had the new Viscount Unicom 500 organ in our 1,000 seater church for a 2-week trial. The tone is undoubtedly better than the Phoenix, Allen, Makin, Ahlborn and other Viscount models that we previously tested, not least because it uses 'real time synthesis', not sampling (and, as I understand it, not Musicom). Until the Unicom arrived I was all set to order a Phoenix. Now we are rethinking! We also looked at Copeman Hart, but were disappointed (their technology does not seem to have moved on much) and we have heard of some bad after sales experiences with them.

Clarion
Nov-03-2009, 05:43
Also, can any one identify what the reed is in the first solo voice of J S Bach's Wachet auf? Is it in fact a Cornet V? The second solo voice seems like a Medieval reed. It sounds like a very raspy short-length reed blaring.


These recordings are SO masked in sea of reverberation, that it is rather difficult to figure out what stop they are using, but I would guess that it is a Trompete.

The reverb tactic used here is a common ploy used by manufacturers of inferior instruments in an effort to mask the inferior sound of their instruments.

Clarion
Nov-03-2009, 05:53
We have just had the new Viscount Unicom 500 organ in our 1,000 seater church for a 2-week trial. The tone is undoubtedly better than the Phoenix . . . and other Viscount models that we previously tested . . .

Fascinating! Did you also have a Phoenix or any of the other mentioned makes and models installed for a trial period as well? And if so, which models/specs?

Krummhorn
Nov-03-2009, 17:07
. . .
Have you visited a German link with a long playlist of organ works played on the Viscount organ? The link is: http://www.sakralorgelwelt.de/viscount/klangbeispiele/index.html.

Because it is extremely rare to be able to hear a pipe organ of the Italian Baroque school, please, if any one can, comment on the authenticity of the pipe simulation of Viscount.

It seems that the Viscounts playing the songs at the above link do have reasonably good articulation. But can any one help comment on the Mixture and the reeds? Are they genuine-sounding or do they sound fake?

Felix

Honestly, the chorus reeds sound quite "artificial" ... And the "twaaannnggggy" reverb doesn't add anything positive to the sound, either, actually, imho, "cheapens" the sound.

Read on:


These recordings are SO masked in sea of reverberation . . . The reverb tactic used here is a common ploy used by manufacturers of inferior instruments in an effort to mask the inferior sound of their instruments.

Bingo. I would like to hear these same pieces, sans all reverb, as then the true sound will be heard. Lots of reverberation can also make the poorest pipe organ sound pretty good.

FelixLowe
Nov-04-2009, 07:19
Hello there,

It seems that the nasality of the reeds of Viscount (http://www.sakralorgelwelt.de/viscou...ele/index.html (http://www.sakralorgelwelt.de/viscou...ele/index.html))
does remind me of the Medieval instruments. For example, the "Bible Regal" in Europe was made to sound a high degree of mysteriousness, and hollowness and raspiness when played alone. The tone is raspy, but devoid of lower fundamentals. As a matter of fact, the raspy character and the level of nasality were also heard before on some organs dating to about 1500 AD even in Central Europe.

I earlier thought that some of the reeds were not genuine, but can somehow recall something of that character in those earlier organs. The twangy voices belong to a class of short-length reeds, like the Bärpfeife and Schalmei, which could sound quite harsh. However, either of these has slightly greater lower fundamentals than the reeds portrayed by Viscount. They did exist before. Some Spanish organs had stops that sound like them also, only with a more fiery character.

Felix