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Caddis
Jan-05-2008, 15:58
The reference to problems with MyOrgan by mrdfes has prompted me to start this thread.I've downloaded mp3's for quite sometime (MyOrgan and Hauptwerk samples)from various websites and I have a preference for Hauptwerk samples,which in my view are of better quality.It got me thinking wether there are similar and/or other problems with Hauptwerk and vicaverser.

musicalis
Jan-06-2008, 11:52
Hi !
I agree with you, there are great quality differences between MyOrgan MP3 and Hautptwerk MP3. But you cannot compare MyOrgan with Hauptwerk version 2 or 3, you must only compare Myorgan with Hwk version 1. Then there are no very sensitive differences.

I am an MyOrgan user (for 2 months only) and I have spent a lot of time with this open source freeware. I can tell you it is really a nice software, even if Hwk2 & 3 are better.

I have not enough money to buy hwk3 and then buy a great sample set (more than 20 stops). With Myorgan, I have all that for free. More, I may have greatest organs than Hwk3 owners, with more stops and even very rare stops as I can make stops and ODF (organs definition files) by myself.
I don't think I could do the same with Hwk 2/3, it seems too difficult, even impossible.

Making an ODF for Myorgan or Hwk1 is very easy once you have understood the goal of each line in the file. You just need a text editor and a lot of patience.

Making a stop (I mean about sixty sampled wave files), is not difficult too, but needs an infinite patience. For half a pedal stop (about 16 samples) for instance, it took me about 8 hours non stop working yesterday on my computer. Today, I hope I'll have the time to complete the full rank.
My stops are not synthetized, they are real stops. The difference with commercial products is that I have not a sample for each key but the same sample is used for 4 keys (changing pitch of course). My samples sources come from the web, from mp3 demo mainly, not from free organ sets.

Caddis
Jan-06-2008, 15:18
Hi J.P.
Thanks for the input,I did'nt realise that making mp3's with MyOrgan or Hauptwerk could be that complex.May I ask,who is the composer of the Toccata Negra?

mrfdes
Jan-06-2008, 15:50
Hauptwerk does indeed have great qualities, but the main point is: MyOrgan is free.
With Hauptwerk, first of all, a hefty fee needs to be paid to buy the software and then it still costs a lot of money buying instruments for it. (I don't really remember how many instruments it comes with as standard, but I don't think there are many, and they are not exactly 'cream of the crop', ie. good, but not gigantic).

If I could afford HW, I might consider buying it, but only because I seem to have problems with MO, problems in the line of my ASIO driver on my soundcard (An M-Audio Delta 2496) not working properly with it, sometimes I have a crackle in my sound too, funny enough, I used to have a Sound Blaster Audigy, which is (in)famous for its crackle and pop, so I changed it for the M-Audio, and, indeed, many problems, eg. latency, sound quality, seemed to show a big improvement.
However, when using MyOrgan (with the Delta, that is), I started having problems with using the ASIO driver (which I did not have with the SB), and I seemed to get some crackle in my sound here and there, it has now improved having downloaded the latsest driver (just released) for the card, but it is still not 100%. I have sent messages both ways, ie. to the support people of M-Audio and to the author of MyOrgan, but both seem to be either reluctant, or unable (or both) to help.

A further problem I have is that I have lots of trouble getting the stops to do exactly what I want them to from my host MIDI application (Nuendo 3), the explanations on the Kloria web site are very vague about this, and I have changed the event for changing stops from a 'Note On' message to a 'Program Change' message, as the former did not send any stop change at all.

So, yes, if I could get those problems sorted, I would happily carry on using MO, even if only from a financial point of view.
They do say, 'never look a gift horse in the mouth' but obviously, if that horse has no legs, you are not going to get very far on it, are you?

musicalis
Jan-06-2008, 19:41
Dear Caddis !

I wrote the Toccata Negra.

Please visit my web site for more organ music :
http://musicalis.monespace.net/pages/11.html (http://musicalis.monespace.net/pages/11.html)

Jean-Paul

Caddis
Jan-06-2008, 21:45
My Goodness!Well I must congratulate you for writing such a quality piece of music.:up::tiphat:
Btw the toccata is on my top 10 list.

Analogicus
Jan-07-2008, 08:32
To respond to mrfdes' MyOrgan problems, can I just say that I am using MyOrgan with a Windows XP system, driven just by a single Casio Midi keyboard, and selecting the stops onscreen. I have increased my RAM to 1.2 GB, and the CPU runs at 2.8 GB. I am not experiencing any kind of break-up; indeed the sound quality is amazing. The quality does of course depend on the sound samples, and on the Stier-Mockers organ I believe I can hear looping clicks on the mixture stop. But one can't blame MyOrgan for that. By the way, I use an Audigy 2ZS soundcard.

Having said that, I think I can hear some break-up sounds on musicalis' latest MyOrgan MP3 recording.

musicalis
Jan-07-2008, 12:48
Hi Analogiicus !
I am using MyOrgan with computer and keyboard similar as yours.
My computer is a PC , XP (family edition) 2.6 Mhz and updated to 1.2 Mb of ram. My Keyboard is a piano FP8 Roland. And also play MyOrgan with a smallest Pc computer (XP, 1Mb of ram, 1.6 MHz).

I use Myorgan in two ways:

1) playing in live with my midi keyboard and adding an hardware reverb (Alesis). I get very nice sounds with free organ samples sets only or with my own organ samples.

2) playing in non realtime with a freeware sequencer or with "Harmony Assistant". and adding reverb with Audacity or Soundforge.

About the looping clicks , there are not due to MyOrgan, but are only stored in the samples wave files.
When you create a sample (for instance bourdon8\01-c1.wav), you can have no click at all if the recorded sound in made with only one pipe. You can make a perfect loop.
If the sound if coming from several pipes (from cymbal, mixture, fourniture or from a combination of stops like gamba +celeste), it is very difficult to find loop points that suit to all pipes.
As it is physically impossible to synchronize the pipes or tune them with an huge accuracy, each wave (period) is slighty shifted with the previous one. No loop points seem to exist. As I make my own sample, I can tell you it is sometime very difficult to find a correct loop point. In stereo, it is much more difficult, even impossible.So we must accept a compromise, that is have a looping click as inaudible as possible.

giwro
Jan-07-2008, 17:36
. The quality does of course depend on the sound samples, and on the Stier-Mockers organ I believe I can hear looping clicks on the mixture stop. But one can't blame MyOrgan for that. By the way, I use an Audigy 2ZS soundcard.

Having said that, I think I can hear some break-up sounds on musicalis' latest MyOrgan MP3 recording.

I did the 'port of the Stiehr-Mockers from a sound font with permission from Joseph Basquin, and I can attest that the mixture stops are the hardest to loop - especially in this instance, where the samples are very short. I did my best to get glitch-less loops, but in some cases there was simply no way to avoid it completely. If you can hear them, you have pretty good ears!

For those of you who really want to explore this more, an invaluable tool is Zero-X seamless looper, which not only searches for optimal loop points, but also allows for crossfading, which can often help remove the clicks and obvious loop point problems.

Cheers,

- J

Analogicus
Jan-07-2008, 22:30
Allow me to correct my closing remark in my recent post: it was in mrfdes' MP3 recording of his enjoyable fugetta etc., made using MyOrgan, that I believe I can hear a very occasional breakup, and not in musicalis' MP3 recording. My ears may be good, but my memory is letting me down at times!

Since this is a MyOrgan/Hauptwerk thread, I would like to make the point which I believe has not been mentioned yet - namely that Hauptwerk requires MUCH more in terms of computer resources, leading to quite some expense beyond buying the program and suitable sample sets. Two of my organ friends in Sydney have Hauptwerk 2 installations in their homes, but I have yet to hear & play them. I have no doubt that the sound will be very pleasing.

There is another problem which others might comment on: the availability of suitable soundcards for these virtual organ programs. The Audigy 2ZS, for example, is no longer being made by Creative. Do we have an assurance that suitable soundcards will continue to be made?

Another factor is the availability of support when problems arise. There seems to be no chatlist or other help for MyOrgan users, as distinct from a number of the other virtual organ programs. I see this as a real disadvantage.

giwro
Jan-07-2008, 23:24
As a long-time user of BOTH programs, I need to make a gentle correction here - it is quite possible to use Hauptwerk on a low-powered computer with similar results to MyOrgan. In some cases, Hauptwerk actually performs better(!). The caveat is that some of the features must be disabled (wind model, swell box modeling, etc) for comparable performance. This is not really a problem, since MyOrgan does not have these features, and then one is comparing apples to apples. Since the program is easily transferred to another computer, you can always re-enable those features at a later date when you can afford a new machine. There is also the added benefit that (on a Windows machine) Hauptwerk can be run as a VST within Sonar, Cubase or the like, which allows for even more flexibility.

Hauptwerk=more features, better support, more stable, costs more
MyOrgan=Free, less support, great way to experiment
and see if you really want to start in on an expensive hobby!

Cheers,

-G


Since this is a MyOrgan/Hauptwerk thread, I would like to make the point which I believe has not been mentioned yet - namely that Hauptwerk requires MUCH more in terms of computer resources, leading to quite some expense beyond buying the program and suitable sample sets.

<snip>

Another factor is the availability of support when problems arise. There seems to be no chatlist or other help for MyOrgan users, as distinct from a number of the other virtual organ programs. I see this as a real disadvantage.

Caddis
Jan-07-2008, 23:44
Hi Giwro and Analogicus
Out of interest,I assume that Zero-X automaticaly searches for optimal loop points,does the programme give manual options should one want to move loop points manually.Could someone give an idea,more or less what the minimum pc setup (amount of ram etc.) would be for MyOrgan and Hauptwerk.I'm intrigued as to how much more computer resources Hauptwerk requieres than MyOrgan.

giwro
Jan-07-2008, 23:59
Zero-X searches for the optimal loop point, but you can also choose alternates (which are provided in a list). Let me assure you from experience (several THOUSAND .wav files looped!) that it does a far better job than you or I will ever do manually.

The amount of RAM needed in MyOrgan or Hauptwerk is dependent on what size of sample set you are loading. Both programs offer a compression schema that reduces RAM requirements approximately 40%. I've run both programs on everything from an old AMD 1.25 ghz to a modern Core Duo Intel 2.8 ghz.

Check the sample sets you wish to run and see if you have enough free RAM to load them - there are a few small ones that would probably load just fine on a PC with as little as 512mb, but at least 1.5gb is probably preferable

Cheers,

-G


Hi Giwro and Analogicus
Out of interest,I assume that Zero-X automaticaly searches for optimal loop points,does the programme give manual options should one want to move loop points manually.Could someone give an idea,more or less what the minimum pc setup (amount of ram etc.) would be for MyOrgan and Hauptwerk.I'm intrigued as to how much more computer resources Hauptwerk requieres than MyOrgan.

musicalis
Jan-08-2008, 00:43
Hi !

I started to use MyOrgan with a Pc computer 2 month ago. It is a cheap computer, 3 years old, with XP and only 500 Mb of ram, no additionnal soundcard. I had no problem to run Myorgan with any of the free sample set found on the Web. But with the biggest of these organs I had to free a maximum memory, closing some hidden applications and windows services.
Then I build biggest organs and I had to buy some memory (1 Gb, for 50 Euros). now I have 1.250 Mb and big organs run very well.

musicalis
Jan-18-2008, 14:46
Dears friends

I have added 9 pages about MyOrgan & hauptwerk version 1 in my website. You can see it at :
http://musicalis.monespace.net/pages/47.html

Jean-Paul

AlainT
Jan-21-2008, 14:41
Just to reply to Analogicus. I don't actually see any forecoming problem concerning the sound cards. As far as both programs don't run anything on the sound devices (such as filtering or whatever), we may use any one fitted with appropriate ASIO drivers.
On my own system, I use an E-MU 0404 USB interface that works very well (the DAC's sound is very accurate). This interface is very common in computer aided music and equivalent devices will be available for ever.

Analogicus
Jan-23-2008, 22:44
Thanks.
I take it that you are running MyOrgan successfully on your setup, and that the E-MU 0404 does not have Creative hardware synthesizers. Does this mean then that MyOrgan has its own softsynth?

Serassi1836
Jan-30-2008, 17:07
Myorgan. It's free...

mrfdes
Jan-30-2008, 18:49
Nice work, but where did you get that St. Bertrand organ from?

AlainT
Jan-31-2008, 13:18
Answer to Analogicus:
In the case of MyOrgan or Hauptwerk, there is no actual synthesis. Both programs handle samples. "Simulator" is a better name for this kind of program.
Of course, this is all software stuff....

musicalis
Jan-31-2008, 15:14
Hi !

Saint-Bertrand de Comminges is a French city, near by Toulouse. In this town, there are many organ lovers and they organise every year a composition contest for their organ.
To write a music for this contest, I have built a virtual organ with the specifications of the organ of St-Bertrand cath├ędral.
For the ODF, I have writen it line by line with a text editor (Notepad.exe). Many hours of work.
For the sample set, I have done it by myself, for all for free:
Some samples are free samples set found on the web. Sometimes, I have extended the compass from48 keys to 54.
I have build all the other samples myself, from many free sources. For instance, extending MP3 demos (15 notes in arpeggio) to full 54 notes keyboard. I did it for instance for the regale 8' stop. Many days of work.
I cannot give the sample set of St-bertrand, but I can give the ODF.

Now, I am writing a software in Visual Basic, to create ODF in a few minutes only. The software is not completed, but it runs. This software for MyOrgan or Hwk 1 will be a freeeware.

RadogoR
Jul-06-2011, 16:51
Hello everyone,

First of all, let me apologize for renewing such an old thread. However, my question concerns the same topic.

I use Yamaha DGX-220 and I always dreamed to play organ. The stock organ sample in the Yamaha is not bad at all, but.. there is something missing.. I don`t know how to express it with words.

Actually the question is - what do I need to play, except of the keyboard and the MyOrgan software itself? What kind of sound card should I have? What are the system requirements to play comfortable?

And - the general question - is it worth at all? Will it work?

Ghekorg7 (Ret)
Jul-06-2011, 22:25
Hi RadogoR and welcome to this great forum.

I know exactly what you mean !

So, MyOrgan is old news..... Now there is GrandOrgue v2. better and powerfull.

What to do :

Get a laptop with win7 dualcore CPU (intel better, though AMD it's ok) 2GB ram minimum, better 4GB (you'll need it for large sets!).
To get better sound and to be able to play with no latency (delay on your fingers) you must download and install ASIO4ALL v2.1 driver.
This is a must.
Get a midi to usb device unlees your DGX220 has a direct USB out.

Go here on this subforum (electronic organs) and scroll down to find the GrandOrgue v2 release thread where you 'll find the links to download GrandOrgue softeware.
Also go and see my free sets sticky index on this subforum too. Your first selection must be Jeuxdorgues2 (Romansvillier) to start with something. Burea 3m/p is the top one. Anyway you can get them all and then decide which is the one for your needs.

When your setup is ready , aka : DGX220>midi/usb>computer(Asio4all installed & GrandOrgue v2 too)> GrandOgue opened.
select midi input (the midi/usb name will appear) and midichannel on which DGX transmitts and Audio out to Asio, set buffer to low as possible to get no latency.
Open stops, play and enjoy !

This for start, ask questions as many as you need, we're many of us here enjoying GrandOrgue !
Help for get things workin' is certain !

All my best
Panos

ggoode.sa
Jul-08-2011, 13:02
Hi RadogoR,

As Panos has already indicated, GrandOrgue is very light on system resources, so I would suggest first using what you have (and use the ASIO4ALL driver if you don't have a soundcard with ASIO drivers or your ASIO drivers are preset to only 48Khz - GrandOrgue uses 44.1Khz). Then experiment and see if your latency experience requires a better sound card, or if you need more RAM, etc.

And please ask whatever questions you need to!

Kind regards,
GrahamG

RadogoR
Jul-14-2011, 08:30
Thank you, Ghekorg7 (http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/members/ghekorg7.html), ggoode.sa (http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/members/ggoode-sa.html) !

Unfortunately been busy the whole week, couldn`t get to my Bach and Buxtehude (yep, I know, Buxtehude is not the music you should play at the "newbie" level, but I have some musical education, and I`m passionate about the great Passacaglia in D moll, although it`s almost impossible to play without the foot register).

Actually I have similar system configuration (AMD DualCore 3 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, but a very very easy sound card and XP, not the Win7). Is the Win 7 really necessary?
Nevermind, I`ll try.

The second thing I would like to share - I found a guy, who is a true genius of microelectronics, and he will try to develop a foot keyboard for me) I hope he will succeed, cause some masterpieces of Bach without a clear bass line - nah... better not to play at all.

Oh, and just the last question - could someone give me a hint, where can I find printed music of Bach in transcription for piano? (It will actualy take some time to develop that wonterful foot keyboard and I`m eager to play now... :) ) Googled about a day everywhere, found just the Bach`s Toccata in D moll... Is that all?

ggoode.sa
Jul-14-2011, 09:00
Hi Radogo,

Win XP is great!! So don't worry about Win 7 until you need too.

Send your microelectronics guy to http://www.ucapps.de/ and have him look at the MIDIO128 project. It is a great, cost effective and opensource design for MIDI products with a great forum for questions and help.

Bach for Piano:
http://www.free-scores.com/free-sheet-music.php?CATEGORIE=70&genre=Baroque&searchexact=Piano+solo&ordrepar=&imageField.x=48&imageField.y=14&divers=&search=&niveau=

http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:CategoryWalker/Bach,_Johann_Sebastian/

Hope that helps :)

GrahamG

Ghekorg7 (Ret)
Jul-14-2011, 23:06
Hi RadogoR,

Bux.... Passacaglia..... you just pulled a string of me. One my eternal favorite music works ever made.
That ostinato bass is essential yes, but you can record it in your host/multitrack studio or even with GrandOrgue's recorder from start to end and then practice the hands untill your pedalboard is ready.
If you need step by step how to just ask.

Graham already gave you the links. But have you tried other keyboard works of Bach?
You know, 90% of todays star performers play them on piano, but the right thing to do is play them with the harpsichord and/or clavichord, spinet and/or virginal.

You can try Prelude in C major BWV846 with GrandOrgue and Blanchet 1720 harpsichord set loaded or Epinette too !!!

Also the same aplies to some manualiter works of Bux and his genuine harpsichord works. Small Italian is the one for those. (since there isn't a free Ruckers.....)

XP is just fine, yes. Go on.

My best
Panos

AlainT
Jul-18-2011, 19:34
I confirm that Bach's pieces were mostly intended to be played on the harpsichord or the organ. And really, even the 2 voices Inventions sound quite different when played on the Blanchet 1720 harpsichord running on Grand Orgue.
It's a pitty that Grand Orgue would not be available as a VSTI, so we could play it through Cubase and add the little bit of reverb which would make the sound great .....!

Dorsetmike
Jul-18-2011, 20:56
More Bach scores here

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/J.S.Bach.php

Scores in PDF format for printing, also some Music XML, MP3 and MIDI files plus some files in formats for various Notation software apps.

Just a few more composers here, including Buxtehude, or you might try some of the John Stanley Voluntaries.

http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer.php

I run GO on Win XP, 2.6GHz dual core, 2Gb RAM and on board SigmaTel sound, found ASIO4ALL was more hindrance than help, no latency problems with the on board sound..

I agree the Blanchet 1720 does sound nice, especially with the added Pedal, must have a longer experimental play with it and maybe some of the other Harpsichord sets, I've downloaded the Taskin but not tried it yet.

Ghekorg7 (Ret)
Jul-19-2011, 00:05
Hi AlainT,

Just use : Jack 1.9.7 / GrandOrgue with Blanchet Loaded / Your VST reverb made as standalone with savihost (Reverberate LE is the best free) and then connect them with Qjackd connection kit (Included in Jack).

Other way is to use REAPER and its Rearoute Asio drivers so you can send GO's audio into Reaper !

Best
Panos

RadogoR
Jul-25-2011, 08:35
Hi again everyone,

Finally got some free time to try GrandOrgue at Sunday.
Well... Managed to install and setup everything needed, connected my DGX to the big brother.. Unfortunately, everything I could hear - just hissing, no matter what registers/options I tried to use ( I think, my audio system and soundcard are just too lame. Will buy the hardware in a while and try again.

Anyway, thanks a lot for help to everyone.

PS. Just a quick remark - for those poor bastards like me :) who can not run GrandOrgue at the moment - a little collection of organ masterpieces in transcription for piano can be found at http://imslp.org/wiki

For example, Buxtehude. Passacaglia D-moll - http://imslp.org/wiki/Passacaglia,_BuxWV_161_(Buxtehude,_Dietrich)

ggoode.sa
Jul-25-2011, 09:25
Hi,

Please tell us more about how you went about testing GrandOrgue... 'just hissing' has never happened to me even on a Pentium II 400Mhz computer running and old old soundcard...

What MIDI input had you configured to GrandOrgue, and what channels where you playing on? What was the latency value in the Audio setup?

Kind regards,
GrahamG