Diesel V Petrol(Gasoline)

[JHC]

My Wife keeps mumbling M5..... but it is too expensive for what we want at this time in our lives, I had thought of a used std 5 say 2010-11 but I just cant be convinced, the series 3 + the Z do all of our needs both get a min of 30mpg the only problem is getting in and out.

@eddie I had a HQ Wagon as a w/s vehicle the best it managed was 19mpg but gas was cheap in those days

 

[EddieRUKiddingVare]

Colin, must have been a real beast. A 308 perhaps. I had a 1971 HQ 253 v8 and would do 25mpg on highway.
its just as well we don't have MOT's in Oz

 

[teddy]

Colin. If you have not already test driven a 5 series. I guarantee you will not be disappointed, especially with the ride and comfort level. Plus you will enjoy the extra room and ease of access. I would only buy the M5 if you want to go really fast, otherwise its a waste and some of the gadgets are very fiddly.

teddy

 

[JHC]

Colin. If you have not already test driven a 5 series. I guarantee you will not be disappointed, especially with the ride and comfort level. Plus you will enjoy the extra room and ease of access. I would only buy the M5 if you want to go really fast, otherwise its a waste and some of the gadgets are very fiddly.

teddy

Jeeez teddy why did you post that???? I was quite resolved to spend the rest of my days getting in the coupe with the aid of tyre levers. the Z is not so bad. But those words that you use "Ease of access" "Fast" "Gadgets" now my juices are cursing through my veins like red wine, I better have another couple of Aussie Reds and try to forget. PS my auto spell check is having convulsions because I spell Tyres with a "Y" :grin:

 

[Dorsetmike]

Having had 2 minor faults that I would at one time have repaired myself but now costing me about £270 I'm seriously considering going back to a 1960s car. Admittedly these are the first expensive jobs in over 65,000 miles in two Mazda 2s (apart from an exhaust box which is almost a consumable and tyres)

A seal failed on the thermostat unit; on my 1960s Ford, that would have involved undoing 2 bolts on the thermostat cover, replacing a gasket, replacing the cover, doing up the bolts, then topping up the water/antifreeze 15 minutes or so and a few pence for a gasket, but nowadays the seal is an integral part of the thermostat unit so can't be changed on its own, so a new unit - £56.27, 1Litre of five year antifreeze £14.70!! and £88 labour total £149.70. Two weeks later fuel filter needed changing, nowadays that means a complete unit with sensors and other bits £53.10 and £66 labour for £119.10.

Do we really need all the fancy sensors and other bits in moulded plastic housings in inaccessible places? In my view they are mostly intended to force owners to use dealers service facilities for every job; even changing bulbs in head and tail lights on some makes needs special tools, or else one needs to be a contortionist to gain access. Gone are the days when a socket set and a couple of screwdrivers could do most jobs.

 

[teddy]

I feel the same about ABS. I don't want it, I don't need it and I spent 30 years driving without it. Now if the ABS unit fails its about £700 and £200 just to replace a wheel sensor.... and there are four of them. Its just about impossible to buy a modern cars without ABS. Morris Minor anyone?

teddy

 

[JHC]

OK with ABS although you may think you don’t need it how about the other idiots on the road I feel a bit better knowing they don’t have sole control on their vehicle and there is a back up to compensate for lack of experience etc. You could say the same about DSC personally I have both on the 330i and can not turn them off but the Z also has these features and you can switch on/off I just leave them on.
Now all the sensors and fancy bits I think the modern car is so complicated to day that it could not be used with out them “Engine management” alone needs to be computer managed.
I remember that if I wanted to go on a good trip in the MG I would have to give it a good check over first whereas the Z can stand idle for 2 or 3 weeks and it is just a matter of loading up and off you go.
I do agree that you can’t do much in the way of home maintenance but I have gone past that and am quite happy with to days cars.

 

[Dorsetmike]

Now all the sensors and fancy bits I think the modern car is so complicated to day that it could not be used with out them “Engine management” alone needs to be computer managed.

How many of the sensors and fancy bits are really necessary though. We managed for years with only an oil pressure warning light (or sometimes a gauge) and a temperature gauge & I can see the sense of brake pad wear sensors. Carburettors worked fine, engine management may make sense on an F1 racing car but do we really need it on a family road car? How many MPG does it save - if any - does it save sufficient to offset its initial cost and the cost of maintaining it?. I've said it before but do we really need cars that can do twice the national speed limit? Even a top speed of 100MPH should not be necessary in a country with a max 70mph limit, some small margin maybe to allow the petrol heads the excuse that the extra MAY be necessary (on very rare occasions) to "get out of trouble".

 

[JHC]

OK which of these highfaluting gismos would you discard on a new car and what other limits would you like to see implemented ?

 

[Dorsetmike]

I'm not necessarily saying discard them all, just rationalising things, for example, items like the thermostat and fuel filter do not need to be buried in a plastic housing with the seal/gasket and sensor(s?) all embedded within and the unit then mounted in the most inacessable position that requires dismantling half the engine. Son in law had a leaking header tank on his Vauxhall, dealer quoted £500 to supply and fit, luckily it was still under warranty.

If a thermostat seal/gasket fails then it should be possible to change that seal/gasket without replacing the thermostat and sensor that probably have nothing wrong with them, it's just a way of maximising manufacturers (and dealers) profits at the users expense.

As for other limits, 2 litre engine capacity is more than enough for todays motoring, we are supposed to be trying to reduce use of fossil fuels, so large engines in private cars should be banned. For most daily use 1.2L to 1.5L is adequate, anything much more is only a status symbol. For example what use is a Porsche Carrera Turbo on British roads? (used twice daily to go 400 yards to deliver/collect little Jack/Jill on the school run?) Just a bit of overkill methinks. We do now in UK sting some of them with increased taxation, but it don't seem to be working too well, obviously there must be ways to get round it.

And how many Chelsea tractors get used off road, apart from parking on the pavement? If you need to go off road then you need a proper Land Rover (not a Freelander, Range Rover or other modern twee versions or imitations).

And as for pick ups, unless used by tradesmen that need to carry or deliver ladders, cement mixers, mowers or similar tools of their trade, what sort of symbol is that?

 

[JHC]

Mike it is unfortunate about the thermostat but I wonder how many fail early on perhaps 1% max and under normal circumstances this would be checked at certain “worked out mileages” as per the service book I am sure there is a good reason for putting it in its present location.
The day of the gas filled bulb must just about be over.
Putting things in inaccessible positions?? well to get at the spark plugs on my straight sixes would be no mean feat but it only has to be done at 100.000k intervals even engine oil now goes 25.000k between changes, I like it this way.
I think for City commuting the electric will win out eventually the alternative is to ban private vehicles from congested areas.
Your comments against Porches and Chelsea tractors should be directed at the owners not the vehicles or are you being just a little bit mischievous?:grin:
I won’t go into small v large engines as we both have our own likes.

 

[teddy]

Speed limited cars? The local ambulance drivers complained when their new ambulances where speed limited. They said it increased the risks, and I agree. Driving a car that has brakes designed to stop from 200 mph makes me feel safe at 70 mph. Using your mirrors properly means that you do not have to worry about using them. Life would be a pain without central locking, particularly now I am getting older. The automatically dimming mirror is a great gadget. Really helps at night when you have a wally behind you, I am glad other people have ABS, I just don't want it myself. Traction control I used to switch off in the BMW. Same reason as ABS. Recently spent four hours changing the timing belt and water pump in the Pequot (standard allowed time). Real pain in the bum. BMW's have a timing chain so just about never needs changing. There are so many more bits in the engine bay these days (air filters for the cabin, washer reservoirs, fuse boxes,servos, radiator reserve tank etc etc) that there is less room to work on an engine which makes accessibility worse.

teddy

 

[JHC]

Speed limited cars uh I have one ........... the Z is limited to 147mph but the young turks know how to re map the computer and apparently it is not hard but top speed is not what it is all about is it.

 

[cwarchc]

It's all about emissions, you know. Can't get them carbs to deliver the nice clean, fluffy air out of the exhaust.

How many of the sensors and fancy bits are really necessary though. We managed for years with only an oil pressure warning light (or sometimes a gauge) and a temperature gauge & I can see the sense of brake pad wear sensors. Carburettors worked fine, engine management may make sense on an F1 racing car but do we really need it on a family road car? How many MPG does it save - if any - does it save sufficient to offset its initial cost and the cost of maintaining it?. I've said it before but do we really need cars that can do twice the national speed limit? Even a top speed of 100MPH should not be necessary in a country with a max 70mph limit, some small margin maybe to allow the petrol heads the excuse that the extra MAY be necessary (on very rare occasions) to "get out of trouble".

 

[Dorsetmike]

It's all about emissions, you know. Can't get them carbs to deliver the nice clean, fluffy air out of the exhaust.

I can understand that, up to a point, but what bothers me more is the way things like the thermostat are cased up in plastic and when a seal fails the whole subassembly has to be changed costing over £50 plus labour for the sake of a seal which probably costs pennies.

It's overengineered for the benefit of the manufacturers' profits.

By the way what is the average current hourly rate in the auto industry for servicing and repairs?

 

[JHC]

By the way what is the average current hourly rate in the auto industry for servicing and repairs?

NZ$75-85 for a (so called) mechanic but also $75+ for a plumber now that is just plain stupid.

 

[teddy]

About the same her for trades but luckily I have a friendly mechanic who is happy to work for £20.00 an hour.

teddy

 

[teddy]

Latest news is that the EU wants satellite control over all vehicles so that it is impossible to break the speed limit. I have had instances where to get out of trouble, that someone else has created, I have had to accelerate hard. Not possible if a satellite is controlling your car.

teddy

 

[teddy]

The EU wants to increase the age for driving a car to 18 years (currently 17). Why not make a motorway driving course mandatory once the driving test has been passed. This would make far more sense. Or possibly a limit on the power of the car you can drive the same as they do with motorbikes. There is lots that could be done to improve road safety. How about making people pass the advanced test if they have been found guilty of a serious offence, rather than just banning them?

teddy

 

[JHC]

Limiting the power of the car makes too much sense for a politician to understand, the driving age in NZ used to be 15 I think it was raised to 16 in 2011-12 made no difference to the number of kids killed we now have a graduated license which also made no difference, the vast majority of deaths seem to be caused by booze and speed also the Police chasing converted (stolen) cars, no one has said how many are caused by being high on drugs.