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JS Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor ("Dorian") BWV 538

Eric Solaski

New member
Funerailles's Beginning is Reminscent of Chopin Herioc Polonaise

Hello Sir Eric,

Good points that you share with the forum. Let us remember that the Rondo in G by John Bull was probably written for performance on a Virginal - something quite different than the Forte-Piano by Bartolomeo Cristofori, later to become the piano we all know. The same could be said for adapting piano works to organ, of which I often do.

The efficacy of a piano work adapted for the organ will, of course, depend on how informed and skilled the organist is. Some organist would never do such a thing. The famous *Funerailles* by Franz Liszt becomes a whole other animal on the organ. I heard a performance of it by Nicholas Kynaston and have a recording of it on the fabulous Klais organ in the Münster of Ingolstadt, Bavaria...


Corno Dolce


Hello Sir Corno:

I went to the link you had provided and was of course brought into another realm of Heaven and Hell. The strata of sound from bedrock to summit was quite a thrill. I also, was piqued by this quote I found at the same site.

"Another composer whom Liszt greatly admired was Chopin (although they fell out following Liszt’s use of Chopin’s Paris apartment to carry on an affair with the pianist Camille Pleyel) and it was on hearing the news of Chopin’s death (on 17th October 1849) that he composed Funérailles. The previous year many of Liszt’s friends had been caught up in the bloody Hungarian Revolution and clearly much of the intensity and passion of Funérailles is in memory of their heroic sacrifice. But following the dramatic opening comes a passage strongly reminiscent of Chopin’s Polonaise in A flat and clearly pointing to the profound effect his fellow pianist and composer’s death had on Liszt. Originally written for piano solo and published as the seventh of the Harmonies poétiques et religieuses this organ version was made by Nicolas Kynaston."

I would love to hear a recording on organ of the Funerailles! Do you know of a link that would play it in its entirety? If I think I am right at how it will sound, I will purchase it. :) It will undoubtedly help me with my conception of performance of it on the piano

Thank you my Kind Sir,

Eric Solaski
 

methodistgirl

New member
Well, what the hell do I know. I don't understand music where you can not adjust the dynamics of individual notes like you can with a PIANO. Sorry, the sound of an organ is great, but you might as well throw out musicality. I will perform this same piece on a sample digital piano with the sound of an ORGAN. You will undoubtedly see and hear the truth of my complaint and lust. ;)

Eric Solaski, PIANIST AT LARGE!!!! heheheheheee... :D

I do know about this Toccata as well. The organist at my church
played it after church services one sunday. I know this is not the
one I have been trying to learn. Thanks for the information anyway.
judy tooley;)
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hello Sir Eric,

The Kynaston Liszt recording is the best thats out there. His *Ad Nos* and *Funerailles* interpretation will just blow you away - you'll never be the same again.

Respectfully,

Corno Dolce :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

methodistgirl

New member
I love the majesty and possible diminuative tones of the KING OF INSTRUMENTS. I love the organ and realize how much the interpreter of the music has to imbue into it great understanding and musicality. I will give another listen to the performance with good headphones. As far as terraced dynamics, I use that device many times especially with the Chopin Muzarkas.

Blue Cheers from the Baby Boom Era along with Vlad the Impaler Horowitz,

Eric ;)

P.S. I have played the Wanamaker. I believe I was cutting classes again at Philiadelphia Music Acadamia and took many liberities. It does seem that a musician has the key to the world. LOL ;)

You lucky devil! How was the experience like? I would love to try my
hand at one of the theater organs since I play this little wicks organ
at my church.:D
judy tooley
 

Eric Solaski

New member
Eric Solaski was shaking at the knees with SWEATY PALMS

You lucky devil! How was the experience like? I would love to try my
hand at one of the theater organs since I play this little wicks organ
at my church.:D
judy tooley

I was intimidated. Since I don't know the pedals, I just played some Bach preludes and Fugues. I do remember having an odd feeling when I played. I felt very claustophobic and uneasy. I have NEVER felt that before or after ever in my life.

Sincerely,

:confused: Eric :crazy:
 

Eric Solaski

New member
Eric Solaski is becoming converted to a different Religion: The King!

Hello Sir Eric,

The Kynaston Liszt recording is the best thats out there. His *Ad Nos* and *Funerailles* interpretation will just blow you away - you'll never be the same again.

Respectfully,

Corno Dolce :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

Thank you Kind Sir. I will give it many hearings!!!

Respectfully,

Eric
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
Strange how this is referred to as being in d minor ... it's not, it's actually in the Dorian mode, hence its name.

I adore it because it's just so graceful. As to the comment about Newman: I am so on the same page, the man plays everything (I've heard) at break neck speed, not attractive.
 

tom

New member
Strange how this is referred to as being in d minor ... it's not, it's actually in the Dorian mode, hence its name.

Actually, I find that debatable. The tonality is indeed d minor, I would say. It's notated without the b flat in the time signature, but so is the toccata and fugue in "d minor", BWV 566, so it's just to avoid confusion between those two, or so I've heard. Anyone who knows for certain?
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
tom - yeah - you're probably correct here. I actually think Bach would be amused at all the names his works ended up with. I bet Dorian is not his ...
 

Alembic

New member
You will hate me

Hi all,

Like all of you I am passionate about music. My only problem is that the keyboard is one of the instruments i cannot get to grips with, so I laud you all.

I have previously "programmed" this beautiful piece into a Korg Triton.

The end result (to my ear) is funnily enough not that bad, but then it is played to perfection with a perfect sounding organ.

What I will never get into the "recording" is the nuances of the individual performer - the highs and lows - the fast and the slow.

Would anybody suggest the best version to listen to so that I might think I'm on to a loser (I'll never program it that well).

On another tack, I was lucky enough to listen to the RAF band the other night. They were fabulous, apart from the fact that they tried to play a complete orchestral version of Toccata and Fugue.

Call me old fashioned, but should that not be played with a Church Organ? Nothing else would suffice for me.

Hope I haven't spouted too much rubbish for my first post!

Alembic
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Alembic,

Welcom aboard the Starship MIMF where everyone is a star. Please do make yourself feel right at home. Please don't feel that you have *spouted too much rubbish* in your first post. I prefer hearing the old chestnut Toccata and Fugue on the Organ. I have never heard a Brass Ensemble tackle that piece but such an ensemble could very easily do so.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce
 

NEB

New member
Hi and Welcome.

Can't disagree with you. I doubt electronics will ever quite be able to totally replicate the subtleties of live performance... (other than to repeat them as in a recording).

The RAF central band are pretty good aren't they. Ya know - years ago, people (musicians in the bands - primarily the Guards Regimantal Bands) used to leave the Army, and then rejoin up in the RAF just to go and play in that band because they couldn't transfer across from one service to another.
 

Eric Solaski

New member
ERIC SOLASKI: Does The King of intruments Rule or does GOD Command?

tom - yeah - you're probably correct here. I actually think Bach would be amused at all the names his works ended up with. I bet Dorian is not his ...

Forget about individual dynamics of a poem breathed with spirit on the piano. Can the ORGAN really SPEAK the MIND of GOD as the piano humbly does?

Fondly,

ERIC SOLASKI ;):D:):p:cool::grin::grin::grin::smirk::smirk::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Mush

New member
The Dorian toccata is one of my organ test pieces. The fugue is kind of dull though, so I skip it or play a different one. The fugue from the Prelude & Fugue in D BWV 532 kinda works after the Dorian toccata. They have a similar feel in places.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi Eric,

Since I have been playing both the piano and organ since my early childhood years all kinds and styles of repertoire, I believe resolutely that a properly dimensioned, constructed, and voiced organ is the Czar of Instruments that requires that one does one's technical and interpretational homework if one is to tickle God's ear. A piano sensitively played is definitely poetic - no doubt about it. Ergo, my favor is with the organ since one is like a conductor when seated at the bench in front of all those keys and stops like this:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/309838932_8afbb51559_o.jpg

Cheers,

Corno Dolce :):):)
 

Mat

Sr. Regulator
Staff member
Sr. Regulator
Regulator
Oh sweet Lord....

And I thought the instrument in Oliwa, Poland was big:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The stops changing process must be killing...
 
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