The effect of modern technology on the audience for classical music.

Ella Beck

Member
Is it good or bad?

Probably a bit of both, depending on how you look at it.

For me, there's never been a better time to learn about music. There are examples on YouTube of any composer you feel curious about.

I think the availability of western classical music has also brought it a new global audience.
 

elderpiano

Member
But what do you mean by modern technology , Ella ? Do you mean like robots playing the piano sort of thing?

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Very limited, no black notes played. Makes me cringe.
 

Ella Beck

Member
But what do you mean by modern technology , Ella ? Do you mean like robots playing the piano sort of thing?

<br>

Very limited, no black notes played. Makes me cringe.

No, I just meant things like YouTube and streaming and people being able to share music and post videos of themselves playing fiddle and so on.
Thanks for the video you posted, though - it's a lot of fun! :)
 

Ella Beck

Member
One effect of the internet on classical music must be that, as the western classical tradition can now be sampled all over the world, there will be composers of classical music who are influenced by oriental, African or other 'non-western' musics - surely to the enrichment of the tradition?
 

John Watt

Active member
This has been a horrible week for me. Part of that has been inside so much,
watching YouTube videos more than the rest of my entire life combined.
Now I have seen what Ella Beck is on about here, what is a new phenomena, global music.
And that's self-produced global music, from government sponsored symphony orchestras to personal creations.

I'm seeing "surely to the enrichment of the tradition?" with that question mark, something I'll comment about.
I'd like to start with the beginnings of this audio-video technology, to keep it in perspective.

When cell phones with audio-video capabilities first came out in New York City,
people would stand around sending "live captures" of a man raping a woman on the sidewalk.
That's an under-reported crime, but having a new live global audience necessitated some action.
New York State passed a law making it a crime to see a crime and not report it.
Police began monitoring cell phone activity to prosecute individuals who sent such audio-videos.

This new audio-video activity also created a new social phenomena, "cell-phone sex".
Partners could be using audio, what you're saying, and video, what you're showing, as a new sexual activity.
Any discomfort or potential shame was understood as a simple reluctance, or probable paranoia,
because these signals could be seen by others, live, recorded, or if your device was accessed by another afterwards.
Those without audio-video capabilities were downgraded as "phone sex" users.
This technology and social activity is now seen as being part of the "disco era", the "cocaine era",
when live computer feeds and far more interactive, and larger, devices are now commonplace.

Making a YouTube video has this "cell phone sex" and "phone sex" quality to the psychology of the human mind.
It's a very self-absorbing "art form", absorbing as much as you are either willing or capable of showing.
This very addictive technology has now created a new branding of genres or titles for YouTube viewing totals.
"the worlds' ten most"... "the biggest"... "the longest"... all compete with the serious self-promotion of many legitimate businesses.
Video shots that attract interest in viewing but are not seen in the video is now commonplace.
Video titles with famous names, famous music and famous movie titles that aren't shown in the video are commonplace.
A big percentage of videos generate comments mostly based on the use of robotic voices or non-robotic voices.

When all these YouTube videos are simply put together as content for this log-in site,
the over-all effect is downgrading the legitimate and quality input, definitely not enriching any traditions.
People who create visuals for existing music should have a directory of their own,
to name one genre of content.
Music producers such as symphonies, rock bands, loopers, all categories, should be in their own directory.
Too much of our time is wasted seeing things that aren't what they look to be, or starting to see them,
and when you consider how America is attacking and hacking other countries for their resources and wealth,
to continue propagating this online world wide web, it's more than just a negligent act of global pollution.

I am haunted by the hour with the YouTube videos I made of myself.
My justification, and excuse, as I felt compelled to say, was that they were unrehearsed,
weren't professional, aren't very good, and actually, is me at my worst, not even warmed up.
I'm not even playing a left-handed guitar and using a tremolo arm.
The sad nature of my existence this summer created a need in me to feel part of the scene,
and that's not live music because in this city of over 60,000 people there is no live music.
I got paid to be a strolling troubadour, an offer from a big business across from City Hall,
but that was about people, and myself, wanting to make a political statement with me as a candidate.
That got me going as a performer, and musician, with a beater electric guitar and new tech portable amp.
That's the only reason I could make a YouTube video, or I wouldn't have had anything to play.

Here's my bottom line about exposing myself on YouTube.
I remember what comedians and musicians were saying about television when it first came out.
They would say they could get on the Ed Sullivan Show, or any day-time or night-time talk show,
and tell their jokes and play their songs, and all at once everyone in America saw and heard them.
That killed most of their club and concert gigs, people thinking they saw them already and staying home.
And staying home meant watching more new stuff on TV, also to the detriment of movie theaters.
That's what YouTube is, a do-it-and-watch-it-yourself electronic addiction, as polite or profane as it can be.
Look around you at the products for sale that you buy.
That's where computer globalization with all it's inherent greed and vanity first was extended, manufacturing for profit.
Are you going to be happy when, sooner or later, all your music is labeled "made in China"?
If everyone around the world is using Yamaha, Roland or Godin products, how individual is your sound going to be?
Everyone is just going to be considered as another viewing from the same screen and speaker source,
and "likes" and "thumbs up" are going to be the commerce of this music seen and be seen.

And just for you, Ella Beck, I'm going to add a little twist to your English sobriety,
and type it's going to come down to "to see or not to see, that is the question".
 

Ella Beck

Member
A reminder that the thread is called

The effect of modern technology on the audience for
classical music.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now, to return to relevance and the discussion about classical music -
 
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Ella Beck

Member
One thing I haven't mentioned so far - the effect of modern technology has been that people want to band together and share their interests. This leads to music forums. A few years ago I joined Talk Classical, and because of that my knowledge of classical music has expanded. Whenever I want to explore a composer I knew nothing about, I can google and generally find some examples on YouTube.

And what I can do, everybody else can do.

The internet is hugely influential and educational as far as classical music is concerned.
 

Ella Beck

Member
The effect of music forums and people posting classical music on YouTube has been that not only the well-known works of classical music are spreading, but a market is being created for lesser-known works and composers - early music, for example, is probably getting through to more people numerically than ever before. If there's a market, people will record the lesser-known works and a niche market will be created.

This must be particularly valuable for today's composers of classical music.
 

Ella Beck

Member
Just to illustrate my remarks, here is a piece of early music about war.
I dedicate it to the memory of all those who've died in war, and particularly, because today is Remembrance Day and the centenary of the 1918 Armistice, to the hope of peace in the world.

The Armed Man, the Armed Man is to be feared.

 
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Ella Beck

Member
As regards early music, another great boon of the internet is that people taking up historic instruments like the lute can now find sheet music and tablature so much more easily.
 

Ella Beck

Member
One effect of the spread of technology is that many people are no longer satisfied with the readily available versions of classical music favourites. They become picky and some try to collect all manner of different versions of the same work. Connoisseurship - well, it's always been there - vide book collectors. But in music and on the internet this can lead to a whole new layer of snobbery and sneering. :)
 

Ella Beck

Member
However, despite all the downsides - which there are in every human activity - I'm so glad that I decided to return to the violin just as all this new technology is available.

One example - I'm supposed to use 'sautillé' bowing in a violin exam that I'm studying for, which I've never done before, but it's so easy to pick up a 'how-to' video from Youtube.



 
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John Watt

Active member
"But in music and on the internet this can lead to a whole new layer of snobbery and sneering."

This also can include the purposeful neglect of others who post on a thread you started.
 

Ella Beck

Member
"But in music and on the internet this can lead to a whole new layer of snobbery and sneering."

This also can include the purposeful neglect of others who post on a thread you started.

I am free to reply or not, as I wish.

It was you yourself who suggested a couple of months ago that I had the option of ignoring you, and as I told you at the time, I considered it good advice.

You see, I didn't like the way that you kept disregarding MIMF's terms and conditions by commenting adversely on my posting style (as now), and also, I am simply not interested in many of the topics that you post about - guitar amps, Jimi Hendrix, Canadian politics and drugs.

I wish you well, but I joined MIMF to learn and read about classical music.
 
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Ella Beck

Member
One effect of the spread of technology is that many people are no longer satisfied with the readily available versions of classical music favourites. They become picky and some try to collect all manner of different versions of the same work. Connoisseurship - well, it's always been there - vide book collectors. But in music and on the internet this can lead to a whole new layer of snobbery and sneering. :)

Since this earlier post of mine appears to have been misunderstood, I'll rephrase it.

I was not writing about anyone on this forum.

I was talking about the thread title issue - the effect of technology on the audience for classical music.

One effect of the new technology is to encourage 'connoisseurship' in classical music, which is good in that it encourages people to collect cds and if a market is thriving, that will help musicians and composers.

But it can also put off people who might become interested in classical music. I've seen this happen on other music forums that I belong to. Someone posts about a popular Beethoven symphony and people come on, in a sneering or snobbish way, to suggest that the novice should have a more rarefied taste - that they should admire lesser known Beethoven works, or go for a more recondite performance of the famous symphony.

In this way, 'connoisseurship', encouraged by the new technology, can discourage a potential audience for classical music.
 
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John Watt

Active member
Hey! I've gone along with your postings, while you're the one who complains about not enough members posting.
If you're trying to define me with your interest in "classical music",
I can only say that classical music is not only an immense historic tradition, sheet music and all,
what is now seen as classical music can be anything that's been popular, not just what's seen as antiquity.
I just made two new threads, one in classical music and one in progressive rock, requesting a new forum.
I'm calling it "symphonic-electric", seeing so many memorized electric guitar versions of written classical music.

You've accented "sneering or snobbish" way, and you're doing it again with me, accenting "drugs".
I don't write about drugs. I have to mention the word because it's a big part of North American society.
It's in movies, TV shows, and here in Welland, I'm smelling pot in the air even when I walk down the middle of a street at night.
One of my constant lines to use when I'm posting in YouTube about American politics,
is that new American statistics show that 90% of the people in Ohio have used crystal meth.
For sure, that is using drugs as a statistic, but as I do here, I'm not talking about them or using them to be entertaining,
not as a user, but as a showman, and not as a writer trying to sell, and not as a typist making click-bait.

If you want to talk about classical music I am more than able to hold my own,
and as a player, not as a composer or recording artist or video content provider,
I know I could jam along with Frederik Magle and hopefully, inspire him as we make music.
That's my only disappointment with Magle.dk, it's so far away, over the ocean.
TINKICKER, with a lead guitarist who used to post here regularly, are also from Denmark.
He knew Frederik Magle from the music business when they were younger.
He's offered a place for me to stay if I ever was able to visit Denmark.
That's a happy thought, but I know that's all it is.
TINKICKER might not be reproducing already written classical sheet music,
but having met Frederik Magle is an even stronger connection for me.
He even mailed me a copy of their new CD, something I play from time to time.

I remember you typing that you can improvise while your husband can't.
I see that as being the same way here, on these music forums owned by a musician.
Just like playing that first note without knowing where it's going to go until you get playing,
you should realize the same thing can happen with font.
A new member, and you seem to be looking for them yourself,
said two replies ago that what he likes about me is how I can take a conversation,
and turn it into something else, being more informative and widening his knowledge of his world.

I always say I type a lot, and the weight of my font shouldn't make you feel like you have to type a lot.
That's what my life is like for me. I can talk about music and equipment and recording in a way that enchants others,
just like I can sing to imitate or sing songs like other singers would sing them,
when, during those quiet moments on the road, traveling between gigs or waiting backstage,
I'm the entertainer, the musician other musicians turn to when they need some inspiration,
or proof of what a human being, a Watt, a Son of the Gael, can do when left alone,
even if everyone else just goes back to being and doing the same old thing.

If there is a big difference between us that might make what I say irrelevant to you,
I'll use your comment "it encourages people to collect CDs", as an example.
How on topic is that, if I'm quoting you?
Here, VHS cassettes, CDs and DVDs are no longer bought and sold even in buy and sell stores.
Owners can't give them all away to others who collect them.
Almost everyone has a hand-held device, some watching movies on those in coffee shops, etc,
and almost everyone is streaming online or watching anything they want to watch on Netflix.
No doubt, the instruments and electronics that get left out beside the curb wouldn't be like that where you live.
The Region Waste Disposal has a program of retail stores and schools who sign up to receive them,
as a form of recycling.
If I was going to be sneering and snobby at all, it would be talking about the wealth of the Niagara Peninsula,
the site of the first commerical hydro generation in the world,
in a land that didn't get bombed to the ground in the First and Second World War.

If it means less lead guitar talk in any classical forum or thread here,
I would think you would support my idea for a new forum,
especially if I'm thinking, as a long time member, that it might attract new members and more comments.
I log in here every time I'm on this computer, and if I'm not looking around or replying,
I minimize it, sometimes for hours, just to pump up the stats for the admin and Mr. Magle.
That's like me volunteering to pay a cover charge to see another band,
when everyone is so happy I'm there they are trying to hustle me in and take me backstage.
I don't like that kind of rarefied air, as to my tastes and as my actions,
because the air is too thin up there and I like to be a part of humanity,
not just dancing with the stars. That's an awe-full way to live,
and just because I'm wandering doesn't mean I'm lost.

I hope this helps you tighten you bow for another round at me.

I'm also saving my ideas about the evolution of the human musical mind,
how classical music such as Beethoven and Mozart is being played by young electronic musicians,
from memory, having that feel and expansive technique, with added modern technology,
just like how blues and rock music began with the same three-chord progression,
from everyone thinking they can sing like Elvis back then, to everyone thinking they can play virtuoso solos now.
yeah... I'm saving that for a "symphonic-electric" discussion,
along with my personal output about starting to do that in 1970.

I'm calling it "symphonic-electric" to be specific, but it is part of "A New Way Forward".

aah... the fontitude after clicking "save"...


 
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Ella Beck

Member
There is no doubt that the internet provides a great education in classical music. If I want to find out about a lesser baroque composer like William Boyce - no problem! :)

 

Ella Beck

Member
On the one hand, people don't have to go out to concerts any more - they can enjoy concerts in their own home. Here's Jordi Savall!

 
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