• Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.

    This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.

    As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.

    In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.

    (Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)

    Many kind regards

    Frederik Magle


GrandOrgue stop borrowing


New member
When "borrowing" a stop, what is the difference between a REF entry in the ODF as opposed to simply reloading the same .wav files?


New member
With REF (or by rank reference as an alternative) there is only one instance of the pipe even if it's playable from different stops/manuals. When you load the same sample again you're creating two pipes even if the sample is identical, which in turn can lead to phase cancellation issues if they both are played at the same time. Not to mention more used RAM.

Kind regards

Lars P


New member
Thanks, Lars.

So the controls of the stop are in the "home" division? That is, if I use the tremulant for a rank which is loaded from a manual, and a REF is used in the pedal, tremulant will be applied to the rank played in pedal? So I assume that also means that amplitude and gain settings are useless in a stop which has a REF.




New member
Yes, REF just triggers a foreign pipe.

There is a newer replacement construct for REF: Ranks. You group pipes in ranks and stops trigger on one (or more) ranks.


New member
Thanks for the response.

Can two stops use the same rank with different amplitude and gain settings?