True believers are murderers, according to some

[Corno Dolce]

Hallo Andrew,

For some reason or other I always find it interesting that so much focus is put on past wrongdoings. The pope who had perpetrated the wrong in JLS' eyes is dead and gone. Pope John Paul II issued an apology on behalf of the Church for its past wrongdoings. Do we read about genocide being committed by the Church today? No! we read about a Church which runs soup kitchens in most of the cities in the Western world; reaching out to those whom society, for whatever reason, has consigned to the trash heap.

We find an organization which has missions to help bring medical care, schools, food distribution centers, agricultural programs and countless other benefits to developing countries. I am not a pr-flack for the Catholic Church nor am I a member. Quite frankly, I am bored and yawn alot because of the incessant small violin whine about past grievances.

One of the best things one can do is to volunteer to help out at a soup kitchen and see how tattered lives can be mended again. Western society is ill-equipped to handle the myriad of problems and their interconnectedness in regards to the indigent. Reams of statistical data produced by this and that government bureaucracy does not even begin to answer the need.

People are shunted from here to there, office A to office Z and in the process they fall between the cracks because of bureaucratic inefficiency, lack of accountability, and political posturing by our two-party system flacks when budget negotiations are in the offing or, as now, in an election cycle.

What I find very appalling is that many cities across the U.S. buy this and that indigent person a one-way ticket to warmer climes such as Hawaii in order to dump a problem they can't handle. I can attest to that since I live in Hawaii and see it first-hand in the soup kitchens.

The welfare budget is blown away by the hordes being sent here. Cities on the mainland have then just shunted off another, like pawns on a chessboard instead of tackling the root of the problem.

Anyway, I'd encourage JLS to see for himself the many good things and, maybe, if his heart is not yet totally hardened, volunteer in a *human help* mission run by the Church instead of sitting in his castle and pronouncing judgment after judgment on past sins.

End of rant!

Cheers,

CD

 

[JLS]

I essentially agree with everything both of you have said. I do not blame anyone today for any crimes of the past. That would be absurd. I also do not -- and have never claimed to -- feel that the Catholic Church, or any major religion, is all bad. That would also be absurd. Clearly these organizations do a lot of good, as corno pointed out, and the vast majority of the members of these groups are probably decent everyday people. My posts here do not reflect any opinion about the church or religion itself. My comments are directed strictly at those who are so enamored with their faith that they automatically leap to its defense should anyone question it or the acts of its members. The pope -- not anyone else -- chose to make reference to the acts of the past. He also chose to paint those atrocities as something good. Something desired by the victims. He could just as easily have chosen to speak of them honestly and with some appropriate humility. Call it a mistake if you will...I'm fine with that. But do not leap to his defense when someone points out this mistake; a mistake that betrays at least a small hint of the imperialistic attitude of superiority, subordination and dominion that have resulted in the very crimes he references so casually. It is not the religion that is offensive, it is this attitude. One that has been shared by so many others in the past and has never failed to result in the propagation of violence.

 

[Andrew Roussak]

Corno Dolce and JLS!!!!

Yeah, I do agree with both of you too on that - btw, I belong to the Russian Orthodox Church ( ROC ) , which is very similar to the Greekish Orthodox, or some would say Bizantian - even now. You cannot find any other branch in the whole Christianity, which would be - generally - more negative about the Catholic church. So, I am in no way defending Catholics, or pope, for doing only good things in the past - I am simply trying to be objective, basing on historical facts, trying to distinguish the real motives from quasi - political statements etc. Okay then - as it happens very often, I think the intentions were good - but the ways were evil.

Well, I am leaving to Italy after tomorrow for two weeks - should I send your regards to pope ? :grin::grin::grin:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hallo Andrew and JLS,

Yes, we can all agree that baditudes by certain leaders can result in, over time, and without rectification, manifold problems which quickly get out of hand and have in the past caused unspeakable treachery and violence against humanity. In the interests of disclosure I am(like my colleague Andrew), also a member of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia(ROCOR).

One of the current sadnessess in the Catholic Church has/is priests having sexually molested young children. I am so appalled by this behaviour of priests who can't control their sexual urges. Thankfully, in many cases, priests have been defrocked and even sent to jail and the Dioceses have had to pony up monetary damages after a trial or civil suit and settlements. It is only fair.

There are still predatory priests out there in certain Seminaries. One can hope that Benedict XVI will vigorously prosecute the offending priests and shut down those Seminaries. They have no right to enjoy the trust placed in them if they have not learned to control their emotions and urges.

Cheers,

CD

 

[Contratrombone64]

Sweet Corn - it's a problem with the Catholic church, frankly, it's just unnatural for men to be celebate (and women). It's part of our hardwiring, don't you think?

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hey CT64,

I can't speak for the Catholic Church and their dogma about priests having to be celibate. The Church of which I am a member has married priests.

Cheers,

CD

 

[JLS]

I doubt that priests sexually abuse children simply because they are horny. Why rape young boys? Why not simply sleep with women? Sexual abusers are almost always past victims themselves. It would seem to make sense that someone with such deep issues would find the emotional immersion of dedicating one's life to a religion to be appealing. After all, the structures of the abrahamic religions involve many common coping methods and the christian god is based on a parental archetype that embodies a combination of love and abuse. Wondrous praise and horrific punishment. Quite appealing, I would imagine, for a victim of horrific abuse...

 

[Andrew Roussak]

Sweet Corn - it's a problem with the Catholic church, frankly, it's just unnatural for men to be celebate (and women). It's part of our hardwiring, don't you think?

I have read about it too - yes, I agree, it is unnatural, and I have always thought that the human nature can come out in this case in some wicked form, if the natural side is suppressed. The paedophile priests are an example of it.
And, concerning celebacy -it was already Luther who had mentioned - "...sie hätten uns ja genauso verbieten zu scheißen können!" ( sorry, Luther had obviously loved the strong expressions! )
There are monks too, right - but they are simply kinda other type of people, not everybody can become a monk. So, concerning catholic priests - have no idea why can't they give up the celebacy.

Regards - almost from Italy, see ya all in September!!!
Andrew

 

[intet_at_tabe]

The Roman Cathoiic Church during the Dark Ages was a moneymachine. It took from the poor and gave to the church. The Roman Catholic Church was the first church in the world to engage in to torture of fellow human beings. The Roman Catholic Church enherated pedophilism from the Roman emporers Nero and Calligula. The sexual act - sado masochism was originated by the Roman Catholic Church: To show how much you love God, you must deny yourself every sexual thought!! Which meant that hundreds of munks and priests would lash themselves to blood. Unfortunately for some of them, they found it pleasing and exciting, equals sado-masochism.

God gave us the ability to LOVE, and with LOVE comes sexuality toward another person female or male at a certain age around 12.

The Roman Catholoic Church gave wrong and directly falsyfied prophesies for a thousand years, while they in Europe controled every Royal family and their armies - against: The Fear of God, never the Love of God. Only God was not present, but they - the men in cloth with the Bible in one hand and the sword in the other - they were the representatives of God, the prisoners were told while the torture never ended.

Criminals the lot of them, but the ordinary people in the Dark Ages - as nowadays - did/do not understand the language spoken in church - latin, so it was always easy for the Roman Catholic Church to persuade Mr. Smith of his guilt and sin, and the only person in the whole world, who could give the individual absolution was the Roman Catholic Church in person of a man in cloth.

Even today, the Catholic Church lie about it´s huge profits tranformed through the Vatikan.

If God meant for Man to lie, God would have invented the Catholic Church, who among many other lies spoke: "The Earth Is Flat".

 

[intet_at_tabe]

Here´s a contradiction in terms about the Roman Catholic Church.

In addition, please notice that the Roman Catholic Church created the picture/image of Jesus Christ as a boy - a human being - born by a female lady a young man with white skin, blond hair, beard and Jesus Christ with blue eyes - sort of the picture and characteristics of a Arian type or of a North European person.

Facts are that this image, we have all watched in each our own Christian Church - Jesus Christ at the last supper with his disciples, for instance - is a false picture.

Now, scientificly, historicly and culturely we all know, Jesus Christ was born in Judea as a Hebrew according to both the Bibles (The Old and The New Testamente/The King James Bible), and for that significant reason alone, Jesus Christ could not have been a young man with white skin, blond hair, beard and with blue eyes. They simple did not excist in Judea at that time - people with white skin, blond hair and beard and with blue eyes.´:grin:

But the Roman Catholic Church decided for this too. To create the picture of Jesus Christ like ourselves in Europe in The Dark Ages, where only people of Royal enheretence or being born as a Duke, a Count or the family owned huge land areas and had money - they understood Christianity being taught by the priesthood of the Roman Catholic Church.

Finally, please guys remember we the human beings worldwide did not have a Christian Bible in Europe like the King James Bible for instance, before Johann Gensfleisch Gutenberg in the city Mainz, Germany in the holy year of 1444 had invented the printing industry and the moveable types.

From 1450-55 Gutenberg commisioned the job to translate, edit and print the translation of the Bible from Latin (originally the Latin translation itself from the old Greek Bible to Latin around the year 783), to German or whatever language they spoke in those days around Mainz. Our first real Christian Bible. 42 lines on each page, created by Gutenberg. The King James Bible came after this. Go to Wiki and look for "The First Bible"´and "The Greek Bible" or even "Johann Gensfleisch Gutenberg aus Mainz, Germany".

The Roman empire did not have a Christian God at all, since every new Cesar was a God himself. But due to the reasons for the Fall of the Roman Empire (Google it?) the Roman Catholic Church emerged, like a submarine to the surface of the sea. The only Bible then was the Greek Bible and even in Rome they all spoke the Greek language.

For all common people like us - not men in a cloth or priests (I believe and our common ordinary citicens our ansesters), Christianity for the masses and the Church itself had no whatsoever meaning among common people until Gutenberg came around with his new invention. To all Europeans in the North, Martin Luther became our revolution, and the power politically, in justicial matters and economicly for the Roman Catholic Church ended before the turn of the new century 1800, leaving Christianity and Catholosism where it belongs outside politics, outside the military, outside the courts and outside economics.

In fact, churches everywhere in the 1500 was a place, where the lower social classes met like they would meet on the market place on a wednesday afternoon, and like sir Corno Dolce so admirable stated - even then the Catholic Church took care of those, who couldn´t support themselves - if they would believe in The Lord and Jesus Christ - the boy and later the young man Jesus Christ born with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair? :grin:

I believe in a mercyful loving God, seems out of focus these days, though, but not one line in the Story of Creation or The Word, or the rest of the content of these old dusty books, written more than 783 years after the birth (if?) of Jesus Christ, and almost double as many years since Jesus Christ was born in a total male-chauvinistic society, leaving women to take care of the house, the food, the cleaning, the children and spread their legs (horisontantly) on occation.

But as we all know millions of people all over the world believe in the Christian Bible, the Story of Creation and The Word (1/3 of all Americans according to the International Gallup) - and that´s cool with me. Countries with less education are (funny enough) statisticly more faithful to Christianity than the opposite.

What makes religion dangerous, is not what the Bible or Islam or Buddhism actually say. The danger is when someone translate the strange texture of a religion not his own, to the benefit for his or his country´s (army´s) benefit as negative propaganda, then it becomes dangerous. But we all all know this too, since 82 percent of all wars in the history of the human beings have been fought for religious reasons, mostly to convince foreignors either with the Bible or the sword that our own religion was the right one? The big christian crusades from Europe beginning from Turkey to the east and the south more than 900 years ago, were generated through the beginning imperialism and the Christian religion. Either you´re with us as Christians or you´re against us as heathens.

Now where in the world and from whom have I heard this quote in recent years? - Either you´re with us or against us?

Anyone??

 

[Andrew Roussak]

Intet-at-tabe!!

I agree to almost everything in your post, and it was interesting to read! Still, I wanted to add here a little bit on some of the topics you enlightened - BUT I MUST LITERALLY NOW PACK AND LEAVE TOMORROW EARLY IN THE MORNING!!!

Aww, hope this thread will be still actual after two weeks!!!

Best regards, see ya,
Andrew

 

[intet_at_tabe]

Intet-at-tabe!!

I agree to almost everything in your post, and it was interesting to read! Still, I wanted to add here a little bit on some of the topics you enlightened - BUT I MUST LITERALLY NOW PACK AND LEAVE TOMORROW EARLY IN THE MORNING!!!

Aww, hope this thread will be still actual after two weeks!!!

Best regards, see ya,
Andrew

Thanks Andrew :tiphat: I wish for you to have a nice trip and for you to return safely and sound in mind, like always.

Whether this thread will be actual and alive when you return, I don´t know? But I´ll do my best to keep it open.

But let´s concentrate on the reaction from The Roman Catholic Church in Europe, when Gutenberg had invented the printing industry, which meant a defeat for the Roman Catholic Church, now the invention of printing made it possible to publicise religion to the masses, which was never intended by The Roman Catholic Church.

Did the Roman Catholic Church lean back, secured for all future? No they didn´t. They took use of this new invention by Gutenberg already two years past 1444 having prepared - Letters of Indulgence for the common citizens, which they could achieve through paying money. These letters already prepared by The Roman Catholic Church on a piece of paper only missing the name of the individual purchaser, would secure anyone who had the money to buy these Letters of Indulgence - to safety in Paradise. No matter whether the individual was a thief, or a killer, a rapist or simply just an ordinary farmer or blacksmith.

Of course it did not matter much, what it actually said on this already prepared piece of paper, bought by the Roman Catholic Church at Gutenberg´s printing shop since the common citizens, did not have the ability to read and write latin or any other language anyway, so they would have to trust the selfchosen earthly representatives of the Christian God on planet earth - the priesthood. The very same priesthood, who had stolen everything possible of natural biological needs from the common citizens, and left them with the only thing/issue typical for The Roman Catholic Church - Fear of punishment by God.

Check this link about the invention of - Letters of Indulgence: http://www.bl.uk/treasures/gutenberg/indulgences.html historicly correct.

So here the Roman Catholic Church invented a new way of creating a new secured cashflow with huge profits, never seen or heard of before - The Letters of Indulgence became the promised safe and free passport to Paradise without passing through The Purly Gates, where God according to the scriptures would decide, whether someone should be welcomed to Paradise or Hell below the heavens to burn forever more.

This prosperous economic traffic, straight on robbery, lasted until one German priest Martin Luther (1483-1546), renounced The Letters of Indulgence through 95 different questions/theses against The Roman Catholic Church and the Pope in the holy year 1517.

Today we all know that the entire Bible and the vision of God and his son Jesus Christ born in Judea, and the promised sanctury in Paradise etc. etc. are merely fairytales from the past with non whatsoever scientific, historical or cultural explanation, nor biological proof. Since we all decent from the monkeys in Africa, and that the first Man to walk the Earth was a negro out of the monkey/negroid race, not mentioned much in the Christian/Catholic Bible - neither.

But the English zoologist Charles Darwin, made the final attack on all the false fabrications, pictures and fairytales around The Lord and Jesus Christ and Paradise from the Christian/Catholic Bible, translated at first from the old Greek Bible to Latin and then to any other language worldwide in the King James Bible, releasing his thesis on the Evolution of Man.

The English Charles Darwin (1809-82) , educated in medicin, theologi, archeology and zoology called his major work released in 1859: The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection.

By others called The Survival of The Fittest.

Remember how it is spoken in the Bible, in the Story of Creation, how God felt sorry for Adam all alone in Paradise. Then God created Eva by removing two ribs from the chest of Adam, burried the ribs in the ground - and Voila!! The Magical Mystery Tour equals Eva was suddenly alive as a grown up female person. Not as a baby with a mother and father, who had had sexual intercourse, but simply out of the thin air/soil?

Btw. Do you guys know that the Catholic Pope and his Papestry did not always had it´s center in Rome, Italy? Frankly the first Pope was French and the Papestry in those days in the past during the Dark Ages of Europe was in the French city, Avignon.

What remains are to ask yourselves some most relevant important questions. How does the Christian/Catholic Bible deal with the scientific proven event: THE BIG BANG, the theory on how our common universe and our common planet Earth came about?

How does the Bible and Christianity deal with and explane contagerous deceases like the plague?, tyfus?, AIDS?, leprecy? etc. etc.?

How does the Bible explain Tsunamis?, Earthquakes?, Hurricanes?, Floods? Lightnings?

How does the Bible explane revolutions?, wars? atheism?

How does the Bible deal with the scientific historical fact that the first Man to walk the Earth was a negro? A decendent from the monkeys?

 

[intet_at_tabe]

When I was only 14 years of age, I read a book translated from English to Danish in 1968, written by the author and zoologist Desmond Morris in 1967. He called the book "The Naked Ape". This book made me doubt my learnings about religion as a subject in public school. In other words, this book made me understand and accept as a 14 year old boy in public school that there was another more logical explanation to the excistense of Man equals HOMO SAPIENS than the one taught through biblical lessons at school.

In the introduction Desmond Morris wrote:

"There are 193 different living apes in the world, we live in. 192 of them are covered with hair. The exception is a naked ape, who has given itself the name - HOMO SAPIENS.

This rare and highly successful kind among the apes spend most of it´s time to investigate it´s higher motives and a similar amount of time carefully ignoring it´s lower motives. This naked ape is proud that it has the biggest of brains among other primates, but try to hide the fact that it also has the biggest penis, while it through lies prefer to give the Gorilla this particular honour...... This is the reason to why, I want to write this book introducing my studies about the significant behaviour of The Naked Ape".

So if any of you guys, true believers of The Lord and Jesus Christ due to Christianity, the Christian Bible, Paradise etc. etc. - or not believers, are open to another explanation about why the naked ape exists on this planet among 192 other apes, perhaps you find it too much to read about darwinism?, then read this book (220 pages) and judge for yourselves.

I did and this book completely changed my personal believes at the age of 14 about us all, the human race - HOMO SAPIENS - The Naked Ape.

www.desmondmorris.com

 

[methodistgirl]

I don't like religion. It's full of stuff you don't need being a Christian
like I am. It's better to do what the bible tells us to do. Not some
man. There are a lot of people who did things wrong in the name of
religion and killing is one of them. That's one of the ten commandments,
Thy shalt not kill or commit murder. The pope still rules the Catholic
Church to worship Mary the mother of Jesus. There is something wrong
with that. Jesus said," No one comes to the Father but by me." Not
the Virgin Mary. Only the bible is the one and only true book to go by.
We should love one another no matter if the other person is a different
color, nationality, or even gay. We were put on this planet for a reason
and that is not to mess things up with religion and hate. I won't push
my faith up in your face like some people but I might nicely introduce
it to you if you ask.
judy tooley

 

[intet_at_tabe]

I don't like religion. It's full of stuff you don't need being a Christian
like I am. It's better to do what the bible tells us to do. Not some
man. There are a lot of people who did things wrong in the name of
religion and killing is one of them. That's one of the ten commandments,
Thy shalt not kill or commit murder. The pope still rules the Catholic
Church to worship Mary the mother of Jesus. There is something wrong
with that. Jesus said," No one comes to the Father but by me." Not
the Virgin Mary. Only the bible is the one and only true book to go by.
We should love one another no matter if the other person is a different
color, nationality, or even gay. We were put on this planet for a reason
and that is not to mess things up with religion and hate. I won't push
my faith up in your face like some people but I might nicely introduce
it to you if you ask.
judy tooley

Funny and true Ms. Judy :tiphat:

The ten commandments given by God to Moses, to me personally in my life as an adult are good guidelines for my own life. I realy try to live after these commandments/guidelines, and I have had many debates with my children and two wives about always having a clean conscience.

Not because they were given by the Christian God, but because they are all reasonable for anyone of us in our part of the world to remember and live by, and like you stated Ms. Judy "Thou shall not kill" is one of the best guidelines there are, though some nations of people in our time seem to have forgotten this.

I have chosen to call them guidelines instead of commandments.

What make us all humans are that we from time to time fail, sometimes because we are selfish, sometimes because we forget what is important in each our own lives, and yet sometimes because we simply have forgotten to put our heads back on top of the neck, where it belongs to receive new blood for the brain to work - and that´s okay as long as we do not seriously hurt, embarres or injure someone else, which would bring a bad conscience that can be very difficult to live with, to some even for years.

The only person in my life as a 54 year old Dane I have ever stroke out at physically, was my Dad one day when the whiskey completely removed his otherwise ordinary gentle, friendly and polite personality. I hit him in the upper belly/chest much harder, than I thought I could at the age of 9, so he stumbled backwards and fell on his back breathless.

We did not say a word any of us, and he did not get injured - except for the fact that we both got a shock because non of us thought, I was that strong and had the nerve to stop him. He never laid a hand on me before or after. I never hit on another person again or raised my voice at someone - child or adult. I felt ashamed for months and had a very bad conscience.

But I do, from time to time, have nightmares because of this single occasion, where I used physical force to stop my own Dad in defence of my Mom, and only because he was drunk as a skunk.

So the ten commandments/guidelines are not difficult to live by IMHO, also I try never to lie and I have never slept around with other women than my wives thoughout more than thirty years traveling inside international politics in Europe, where the chances to embed some beautiful chick was there every day. I believe in monogamy while living in a regular loving relationship, and sleeping around does not make anyone a better human being, nor anyone sexual free. On the contrary, it opens up to a bundle of continued and repeated lies, which bring a bad conscience.

 

[intet_at_tabe]

The Catholic church used to be vicious years ago. I'm not catholic myself. This methodistgirl is protestant. The Methodist church is different.
There is one protestant church that used to be rough and that's the Baptist
or there wouldn't have been slavery.
judy tooley

Dear methodistgirl aka Ms. Judy :tiphat:

According to the post above and to your last post in this thread about being a methodist, and as that please correct me if I have the wrong understanding of what a methodist is:

The title "methodist" goes mostly to the definition on which method to choose reading and studying the Bible. I ask you: Is it correct?

Methodists are a Christian faith, and have great similarities between other "mainline" Christian faiths - Luthern, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Episcopal.

As Christians, they all believe Jesus is the son of God, born of the virgin Mary, and was resurrected as our Savior. But also Jesus Christ was identical to God, because Jesus was called The Lord and took the devinity to be him.

Is this correct according to my humble understanding of being a methodist?

Would you be so kind to give other important details of differences between, a methodist or a luthern the way you see it as a methodist?

Thank you in advance.

 

[intet_at_tabe]

One of the huge differences between the Catholic Church/Catholicism and the Greek Orthodox Church has always been that the Greek Orthodox Church do not consider the Pope to be the head of the Church.

According to the fact that the Greek Bible was written hundreds of years prior to the Christian Bible and the Christian Bible was more or less a transcript/a copy - an attempt to translate the Greek language in to latin, opened up to huge misconceptions.

 

[methodistgirl]

I know that the Apostle's Creed mentions the holy catholic church.
That really means the Universal Church for the protestant church
including Methodist. John Wesley was kicked out of the Lutheran church
for what he believed in and started his own which is now Methodist.
I myself came from a little country church named Miracle Temple
Church of God which the Church of God was also started by John
Wesley and is a totally different church kinda pentecostal. Your
Presbyterian,Baptist,and Assembly of God was started by John Calvin.
Now days a lot of churches are shaking off the old doctrines to go
back to the bible. To me that's a better idea.
judy tooley

 

[Contratrombone64]

Intet - you're spot on. Also, the Catholic church massaged the meaning of the passages to suit their needs. One also needs to remember Luther was still a Catholic at the time of his death.

 

[intet_at_tabe]

Intet - you're spot on. Also, the Catholic church massaged the meaning of the passages to suit their needs. One also needs to remember Luther was still a Catholic at the time of his death.

Thank you CT 64 :tiphat:

The difference between myths and history is the fact that history is science and myths are stories that has been told from ear to ear, over decades and centuries.

History, base it´s method on observations and informations of events various sources unawear of the other sources bring. History is like a puzzle, where you begin with no certainty, but the more information you get on the same event from different souces, the clearer the full picture will become.

The Roman Catholic Church like you stated CT, knew how always to serve themselves first and foremost. Think of all the gold shipped from South America, post the discovery by Christopher Columbus by hundreds of ships returning to Spain, Portugal and Italy loaded with all sorts of new valuable stuff not known in Europe, stolen in the name of The Lord and Jesus Christ from the native indians in South America.

The Roman Catholic Church has built the story of God and Jesus Christ on corruption, in the sence that Jesus Christ "supponsingly" was born in Nazareth, Judea - which would be impossible since the caucation white race with blond hair, blue eyes and white skin, did not exist in Judea nor in Egypt for that matter on that time in our common history.

We all know that a house sooner or later will fall to the ground, sort of demolise itself, no matter how many stories you built on top of the foundation, when the foundation of concreate - is shaky.

But in those days back in our common history to the time before Gutenberg and the revolutionary and reforming Martin Luther, who hated what the Roman Catholic Church did with the Letters of Indulgence, the masses, not being able to read and write were like the lam before the slaughter. Who would dare to speak against the holy church, knowing that you would possibly end up in the prison to be tortured by the same men in cloth, who spoke of the Lord and Jesus Christ and later in front of the Bishop or Karidinal´s tribunal, The Inquisition - without a chance of defending yourself or engage in religious conversation towards the Bible and the scriptures or remain alive, mostly because of the lack of education in a language, only the priesthood and the royals managed.

Martin Luther, Mainz, Germany dared, because he had a different comprehension of God and Jesus Christ than the Pharisees of his own faith and church did, and doing what he did putting his 95 questions/theses nailed on the door of the church in Wittenberg, Germany in 1517 in full public, he forced the Roman Catholic Church, that he remained a priest in throughout his life, to respond. He was one of their own, who spoke the languages, he was a scholered priest - and they the Pharrisees couldn´t lie as they were used to - gathering wealth for the church.

Think of the Vatikan, when did any priest, bishop or Kardínal engage in any sort of activity/hard labour, like a full time job using a showel for a salery, like the masses had to, when creating funds to built the church of St. Peter, this however magnificent incredibly big beautiful church? No! Slaves and heavy taxes towards the citizens took care of the money to built it and the work to do it. Like slaves built the Pyramids in Egypt.

In 1974 two Italian journalists and a photographer from Schwiss, disclosed a secret lodge within the Vatikan called K7, whose only goal was to white wash Mafia related income. One journalist died in a traffic accident, one disappeared from the face of the planet and the photographer according to the Schwiss police commited suicide.

I wonder why this, the holiest of holy churches centered at the Vatikan, Rome, but also the youngest of religions world wide, did not want to comment on these "accidents"?