Tracker action vs Pneumatic action

[Caddis]

Hi there,so far I know cone chests are normally asocciated with tubular pneumatics.While cone chests are not recommended for Bach,Im sure these types of organs are quite suitable for music like ,Prelude en Fugue BACH Liszt,Saint-Saens,a.o.It would be interesting to know wether french organ builders(such as Caville-Coll,Callinet,Riepp,)employed cone chests in their organ building.Thancks for the replies.Trying to enjoy SA summer.

 

[Caddis]

Hi From a listening point of veiw,I sometimes cannot understand the hype people make about organ actions being audible in recordings(trackers and pneumatics).This happened recently when an aquaintence of mine heard the latest addition to my CD collection,Dialogue for two organs,Naxos.Organ builders Gaetano Callido 1785,Pietro Nacchini 1757.Yet he did not have one complaint about W.J.Westbrook's transcription of Widor's Allegro Cantabile played by Herman van Vliet on the C.C. organ at St Ouen,Rouen(Widoriade,Festivo).Granted the C.C. action was less audible than that of the two organs played in the Naxos recording,but still all that fuss? I'm going on holiday tommorow. Seasonal greetings and happy new year Thomas and co. will be back in January.

 

[Thomas Dressler]

Noisy Action

I don't understand the fuss, either, unless it's really, really noisy.

When I recorded at Round Lake, NY, it was impossible to capture the kind of sound I wanted without getting action noise. The action has not been restored in over 100 years so it's nearly impossible to play it quietly--and when you hear it in real life, that's how it sounds! I also kept all the "nature sounds," such as crickets and locusts on the recording. Some people really liked that approach and a few really don't like it.

When I played at the Organ Historical Society convention last summer, one of the recitals was recorded live for the CD. During that recording, a bird came and sat on a tree right outside the window and sang its little heart out while I was playing. I hope they keep that on the recording, as I enjoyed that immensely! But I know some people would complain, and I just don't understand that.

 

[acc]

Hi there,so far I know cone chests are normally asocciated with tubular pneumatics.

Hi Caddis,

The association of cone chests with tubular pneumatics is not as systematic as one might think: E.F. Walcker, for instance, almost always used cone chests, but he tended to build tracker actions whenever the size of the instrument was not too big. He also used Barker machines (rather than tubular) in some of his bigger instuments.

 

[Contratrombone64]

acc - your link to the Brussels Cathedral organ is not working (at least for me).

 

[acc]

Indeed, it no longer does - here's another one.

 

[PraeludiumUndFuge]

I find there is a slight delay for the note to form with pneumatic organs. Just a different style of instrument.

 

[Krummhorn]

Having played only one tracker organ in my life, that being in Austria , is the touch/feel universal to all instruments across the board in Europe and the US?
The one I played, especially when the manual/pedal coupler was engaged, was quite stiff and took a fair amount of extra finger pressure. It was a 2/18 with a flat pedalboard.

 

[PraeludiumUndFuge]

Ahh parallel pedalboards. The real deal
Btw tracker organs do take a fair amount of finger pressure unless of course they are electronically operated. I'm still not too sure on the inner workings and the different kinds of organs. The organ at my church is pneumatic but actually has a pretty quick response for an organ of this kind. Also depends on the registers you are using etc but that might just be particular to the organ I use.

 

[Soubasse]

My personal experiences with tubular pneumatic action have all been equally awful. On a couple of them, the delay was dreadful and made coherent playing almost impossible.

For me, there is little that can match the responsiveness of a well maintained tracker action. Yes, they can get heavy, but by well maintained, I mean the sort that is only a little heavier than a good piano with only a minor change noticeable when you start coupling.

One of the many reasons I was stunned when I played the St Sulpice organ was the action. With the Barker lever in effect, even having four manuals coupled down to the fifth was a breeze to play.

Just my $0.02.

Matt

 

[falcon1]

I for one love organs with tracker action because you really get the feel of great power when you use many stops together. To me the feeling of same touch wether you are just playing one stop or 70+ stops are quite strange. I want the feeling of great power not only through my ears but also through my fingers and body.

Maybe I'm just old school.

 

[Soubasse]

That's actually a very good point. In all the years I've been playing, I don't think I'd ever looked at it that way before.

 

[Contratrombone64]

It's funny that the topic of noise only came up once ... as I often hear complaints about noisy actions of organs. From my personal point of view, I think that just adds to the charm of the instrument and is characteristic. The Fagius recordings of the "complete Bach" uses a couple of very noisy Swedish organs ... I love the clicks and thwacks ... adds to the experience for me.

 

[Soubasse]

I agree - one of my favourite recordings of a moderately well-known (sic!) last movement from Symphony no.5 by C.M Widor, is Marie-Claire Alain. I've forgotten which instrument, but in the quieter, middle section, you can hear the clacking of the trackers and it actually adds to the percussiveness of the staccato. It's also worth remebering that if Widor actually wrote that at the console of St Sulpice, the clattering of the action would have been very prominent and it's quite plausible that some composers may have originally worked this in as a feature in some of their works.

 

[Contratrombone64]

Was it Widor or Vierne who dropped dead at the console of a Paris organ ... apt really?

 

[NEB]

I don't know, but having not played it for 15 years or so I've got an order in to play it for a wedding, so I'm having to do a good deal of practice to bring it back up to scratch. And BOY! do my hands hurt after an hour or so of working on it!

(I've managed to avoid it for ages mainly because I'm fairly ambivalent towards it, and in any case IMO it's been done to death and then some, but needs must... ) - (Same goes for BWV 565 IMO)

 

[Caddis]

Hi to the forum
It was Vierne,I can't remember the exact details,but I know that Maurice Durufle was present when the tragic event occured.

 

[Caddis]

Noise complaints?

I have recordings of Marie Clair Alain (Cathedal of Dijon,Riepp Organ) and Ben van Oosten (C.C. Organ at St. Ouen),both playing the 5th Symph toccata and it's amazing how people complain about the clatter of the C.C. organ,but give the Riepp organ 10/10 for action noise level.

 

[Krummhorn]

Was it Widor or Vierne who dropped dead at the console of a Paris organ ... apt really?

Caddis is correct :cheers:. Vierne died from a sudden massive stroke at the console between pieces at a recital at Notre Dame on June 2, 1937. Maurice Duruflé, his friend and closest pupil was at his side when he collapsed. In the late 1920's, Vierne had suffered a minor heart attack at the climax of a North American concert tour. From that point on, he became more concerned about his health, and taught privately and composed for the rest of his years.

Vierne is still one of my most favorite organ composers.