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rojo
Jul-21-2007, 01:43
What do peeps think of this?

Edit: Link wouldn't work.

I want one! :bawl:

There's a video that one can watch, but I had some trouble with it.

I bet our organist friends here who are used to more than one kb find this completely boring... (just kidding :grin:)

rojo
Jul-21-2007, 01:54
There's a video in this link-

http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=51447a22df4808817b10c4ec7f31af913673f701

Krummhorn
Jul-21-2007, 02:01
Hey, that is so cool ... and realizing the advantages to the added keyboard in obtaining the higher notes without having to have hand like Cesar Franck :grin: . Fascinating video ... nice to see this in use by a pianist.

Quite the opposite feeling for me, Rojo - I equally love the piano about as much as the organ ... I do have a piano at home - I've got 24/7 access to my church organ, so the best of both worlds.

Check this site if you want to see some other Strange & Unusual Pianos (http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/oddpianos.htm). A different versions of double keyboard, the longest piano, double ended grand, and others. :cheers:

Kh :cool:

rojo
Jul-21-2007, 05:21
Say, those are neat. Especially the Janko keyboard. Imagine if it had caught on....

Krummhorn
Jul-21-2007, 17:24
Yah, they are neat ... I like the double-ended grand the best - :up:

I suppose the Janko keyboard would be easy to navigate once one learned where the keys are placed. Wondering it this layout has any logical continuity - or how he came about this particular key order. (?)

Andrew Roussak
Jul-22-2007, 16:35
Wow, great video, rojo - how interesting that one can use the ORIGINAL finger technique by Bach , and the result sounds still like a modern piano and not like a clavicembalo. And one doesn't have to fight with that crossing- hands patches anymore playing the Variations.
Great , and the collections of that odd pianos is also interesting - I guess the Janko keyboard would require a totally different technique - like learning a new instrument, which has nothing to do with the traditional piano. BUT THEY HAVE THE SIMILAR SOUND - I guess it was a deciding mistake of the promoters. Maybe they should have tried to sell this idea not as a piano with an unusual keyboard, but as a kind of a compelely new instrument sounding not exactly as a piano as well - then it could get a chance to survive in this competition...

rojo
Jul-22-2007, 18:26
Well, if I understand correctly, the placement of the keys was so that one didn't need to have a different hand position for each chord. They all use the same hand position and fingering, the distances between the notes being the same. Also I think one doesn't have to stretch as far as with the conventional piano kb. I think I might have liked it!

Corno Dolce
Jan-11-2008, 15:03
Hi Folks,

Below is the result of a very random search:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/music/15barr.html

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Krummhorn
Jan-11-2008, 17:05
Oohhh! I want one ... does it come in an upright? :rolleyes: ;)

Corno Dolce
Jan-11-2008, 21:03
Hi Krummhorn,

I believe it has been made in an upright version also. Furthermore, certain piano makers have made quarter tone pianos. Ivan Wyschnegradsky composed for the quarter tone piano which has two keyboards. Below is a link for the piano and the composer who used it:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/pics/wysch2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/english/wyschnegradsky.html&h=415&w=313&sz=25&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=X6YpR1khE-Q9JM:&tbnh=125&tbnw=94&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dquarter%2Btone%2Bpiano%26svnum%3D100% 26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Daniel Palmer
Jan-11-2008, 22:06
I once went to a piano concert where there was a two-keyboard grand piano, but there was one keyboard at each end.

It was the only time I've ever seen a piano like it - has anyone else ever come across one? A quick google search didn't seem to bring up anything. Perhaps it was custom made for the husband and wife duo.

Daniel

NEB
Jan-11-2008, 22:09
interesting instrument. possibilities spring immedaitely to mind.

Corno Dolce
Jan-11-2008, 22:13
Hi Daniel Palmer,

Below is the Grand Piano with keyboards at either end:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.egri-pertis.com/shared/pictures/dgoben.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.egri-pertis.com/english/double.htm&h=519&w=263&sz=22&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=sjnzluMWd7LUCM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=66&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddouble%2Bkeyboard%2Bpiano%26svnum%3D1 00%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Daniel Palmer
Jan-11-2008, 23:38
Thanks for the site Corno Dolce, it looks really interesting.

Regards
Daniel

Krummhorn
Jan-12-2008, 01:39
Here are some additional strange pianos (http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/oddpianos.htm). Even includes a pedal piano.

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 01:41
while I was a college we had a couple of rooms with pedal pianos in for organ students to practice on.

Contratrombone64
Jan-12-2008, 03:55
I'd really like to see a quarter tone piano sail ... yeah, sail right past my office window up 34 floors.

I do love it when the west uses terms like "The World's biggest ..." or "The World's best ..." when they actually mostly mean America. I remember once see a comment about Hollywood being the producers of the World's most movies from any studio. I don't have facts, but surely Bollywood can beat them on this.

Corno Dolce
Jan-12-2008, 05:19
Hey CT64,

What do you have against quarter-tone pianos? They ain't done you no physical harm :eek::crazy:;):smirk:

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Krummhorn
Jan-12-2008, 06:46
Well, I for one was intrigued by this mention of a quarter-tone piano, and had to research it ... found this YT video that fairly sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU85bUyDPWs

Makes my hair stand on end ... being one blessed with perfect pitch, the sound is quite something else.

Contratrombone64
Jan-12-2008, 08:05
Stop, Stop!! Please oh puhleeeeeeeeeeeese make it stop mamma!!

Corno Dolce
Jan-12-2008, 08:50
Hi Krummhorn,

Thanx for posting the Ives *quarter-tone music* - very fascinating!!!:grin::grin::grin:

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 16:55
Hi Krummhorn

Now that is an interesting concept because it makes it possible for every key to be either slightly out of tune or more in tune in a slightly different way, and jazz/blues etc to have something extra a piano tuned to even temperament could not possibly provide.

There are some ver yinteresting harmonic sequences in that. I'm impressed and intruiged. Thanks for the clip.

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 16:58
Hi CT64 - It's a long established Tradition that when the emperor of Rome says "Fellow Romans" To start a speech he means citizens of the world! Every empire ever since has been the same in that assumption from their leaders so why should the American Empire be any different?

(Now admitedly queen victoria probably addressed her 'subjects' which undoubtedly meant the entire population of the world also!)

Krummhorn
Jan-12-2008, 20:40
Hi Krummhorn,
Thanx for posting the Ives *quarter-tone music* - very fascinating!!!:grin::grin::grin:
Cheers, Corno Dolce


Hi Krummhorn

Now that is an interesting concept because it makes it possible for every key to be either slightly out of tune or more in tune in a slightly different way, and jazz/blues etc to have something extra a piano tuned to even temperament could not possibly provide.

There are some very interesting harmonic sequences in that. I'm impressed and intruiged. Thanks for the clip.

Corno Dolce & NEB,
Welcome ... on first listen it made my spine wrench ... after a few more times through, I have a greater understanding and can appreciate this venue of music more.

I'm have learned yet again of another classical music venue that I knew nothing about before becoming part of this forum community.

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 21:01
Hi Krummhorn, my ears pricked up immediately and you need to go some to make that happen. there's something enormously interesting about it (IMO anyway)

Krummhorn
Jan-12-2008, 21:20
NEB,
Ahah, you must also have the wonderful gift of perfect pitch? Welcome to the club ... Sometimes it is not always the blessing it was intended to be ... and being born with it, it's not something that we can just discard from our lives ... lol ... :crazy:

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 22:26
Indeed I do Krummhorn. It can have it's problems, like retuning a keyboard or whatever into a different key makes it unplayable for me - I'd rather do the transposition than detune it a tone...

Krummhorn
Jan-12-2008, 22:49
Same here, NEB ... when lowering a hymn in church I do it mentally and play the transposed notes. Those transposer knob contraptions on organs really throw me for a loop - my mind know what keys I'm playing, but the sound coming from the chambers doesn't match in pitch, then I try to re-adjust my fingers to what I'm hearing and it quickly turns into a complete disaster.

Corno Dolce
Jan-12-2008, 22:54
Once in a blue moon I have used a transposer knob/switch. When using it I have learned to disassociate the keys I'm playing with the pitch I hear or else the disaster is upon me.

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 23:14
Same here, NEB ... when lowering a hymn in church I do it mentally and play the transposed notes. Those transposer knob contraptions on organs really throw me for a loop - my mind know what keys I'm playing, but the sound coming from the chambers doesn't match in pitch, then I try to re-adjust my fingers to what I'm hearing and it quickly turns into a complete disaster.


Like wise. It blow several fuses if I try. The results are shocking...

Daniel Palmer
Jan-12-2008, 23:14
Transposer buttons have caused me problems when I've been accompanying various concerts, because I sometimes either forget to transpose or leave it on.

I suppose while they are a convenient feature and are good for emergencies, they can make you lazy (like calculators I suppose!)

Daniel

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 23:14
Once in a blue moon I have used a transposer knob/switch. When using it I have learned to disassociate the keys I'm playing with the pitch I hear or else the disaster is upon me.

I can't make that disassociating. It just doesn't work - everything in my head complete shorts out...

Daniel Palmer
Jan-12-2008, 23:20
On the subject of unusual keyboard instruments, I found this site (http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om25450.html) about the 'Great Stalacpipe Organ'.

(just be aware it's hard to miss some of the text amongst the ads!)

There are other strange instruments on there, ranging from the plain strange to the quite ingenious.

Daniel

NEB
Jan-12-2008, 23:57
Now that really is astonishing. It sounds fantastic too. I'd be worried that hitting these things with a mallet too often or too hard would break the off or cause fatal cracks and they ultimately fall off etc.

Krummhorn
Jan-13-2008, 02:16
Thanks, Daniel, for that site ...

Interesting to peruse the other 'odd' instruments ... like the Beer Bottle Organ (http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om06300.html), too.

methodistgirl
Jan-16-2008, 01:04
Ever saw a piano with a keyboard like a typewriter or computer keyboard?
I did when I went to Stephen Foster's memorial and museum. I think you
can look it up now I'm not sure because I haven't done that yet either!:eek:
Let me know when you find and I will tell you as well!:grin:
judy tooley

NEB
Jan-16-2008, 01:07
actually I've seen a lighting console just like an organ console...

Krummhorn
Jan-16-2008, 01:27
Judy,

What you may be referring to is the Janko Keyboard (http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/janko.htm) perhaps?

methodistgirl
Jan-16-2008, 01:31
Judy,

What you may be referring to is the Janko Keyboard (http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/janko.htm) perhaps?

Yes and it was a grand piano like that at Stephen Foster's memorial in
florida.
judy tooley

Contratrombone64
Jan-16-2008, 04:09
*rolls his eys*

NEB
Jan-17-2008, 11:18
That's the basicaprroach to a button accordian as opposed to a piano accordian. I play Piano accordian some, but I've know poeple who play the buttons in the RH, and they have so much more possibilities right under their fingers - it's scary.

methodistgirl
Jan-17-2008, 20:45
Yes there is such a thing as a janko grand piano. I saw one at the
Stephen Foster memorial in florida. It has keys like a typewriter and
plays like a piano. The instrument can either be confusing or very
easy.:confused: This museum was full of unusual instruments like that.
They had double keyboard pianos, player pianos, one like Beethoven
played and more. There was only one pump organ in the whole
museum full of different pianos of different types.
judy tooley

Corno Dolce
Jan-17-2008, 22:00
I've never understood how the Janko keyboard is employed although I've seen videos of people playing them - seems real easy - so easy that it makes me wonder why it was never adopted by the pianomakers.

I guess that they had already refined production of the keyboard as we know it today so that any change would be atrociously expensive for them. But the more people that know Janko, the more the demand and thus a market is born for Janko and the pianobuilder who captures that market will make a nice living until others jump on the bandwagon.

So really its more than just initial price - its about competing values...

Here's a site with an electric Janko keyboard:


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chromatone_312.jpg&imgrefurl=http://technabob.com/blog/2007/08/09/chromatone-312-key-synth-laughs-in-the-face-of-88-keys/&h=440&w=520&sz=37&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=3TPL6U3ZO5ZhlM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djanko%2Bkeyboard%26svnum%3D100%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

NEB
Jan-17-2008, 22:09
Well yeah - I was wondering how come we came up iwht the standard keyboard we know today, and equally


How much different would music be if the keyboards were of that type rather than the ones we know?

Now that is an interesting question to ponder....

Corno Dolce
Jan-17-2008, 22:31
Hi NEB,

Excellent follow-on question dear sir. Hmmmm - I'll do a google query on "Pianography".

NEB
Jan-17-2008, 23:12
Hi Corno Dolce,

It was more left open to ponder than seek an actual answer. I would suggest that whatever we came up with as a suitable answer to such a conundrum would at best be lacking in substance or depth, and be pure conjecture.

I'm currently working on the problem of what if during the reformation, the protestant church hierarchy had gotten their own way and had managed to dispose of all organs as being the work of the devil. What course would music have taken and how would it's developement have been effected?

Now I'm presupposing that Buxtehude would have been unable to work, Bach would never have been appointed to Leipsig or travelled to visit his tutor of the moment. Where would we have been artistically?

The answers I can surmise are grim indeed.

Corno Dolce
Jan-18-2008, 00:11
Hello NEB,

Thankfully, it was only a small group of heterodox protestants who wished to ban the organ from the Church. Don't go after the whole hierarchy.

Cheers,

CD

NEB
Jan-18-2008, 00:12
Yes I know, but just imagine if they'd had their way> Yikes...

Corno Dolce
Jan-18-2008, 10:39
Hi NEB,

Your apprehension is duly recognized and noted dear sir. It would have been a very long and extended dark period in Music History. Music might not have been as fully developed as we see it today. I'd almost wager that we would not know what Jazz is if it were not for the development of music in the protestant church.

Cheers,

CD

NEB
Jan-25-2008, 13:14
Yes indeed I think you may well be right there. But Jazz developed independantly of the church didn't it? Curiously, in the early periods while church music did have a large influence probably due to patronages etc. It was not the only force at work. Suppose that the church had not been a patron of music. Might not those wealthy burgers have been more itnerested in picking up some of the strain at least?

Certainly we would not have had many of the great works, but might not some of the great musical talents still have been musical talents but their work rather different in nature?

Or maybe they would stamp out all but the basest of musical offerings perhaps? Perish the thought...

chromaticism
Jan-29-2008, 03:39
Hi Folks,

Below is the result of a very random search:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/music/15barr.html

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

What a fantastic piano! Octave scale runs become a breeze with that fourth pedal plus crazy intervals that seem impossible or difficult in a conventional piano can be done easier. It's amazing that you can expand your piano techniques with the double manuals. Is it possible to get one made inexpensively?

Corno Dolce
Jan-29-2008, 10:29
Hello Chromaticism,

Theoretically, yes - one could get an inexpensive one made.
Practically, maybe - if enough people twist the arms of the digital piano makers we could even see triple keyboard pianos with a full 32-note pedal keyboard. I'd be the first in line to purchase one if one were offered.

Cheers,

CD :):):)

chromaticism
Jan-29-2008, 10:58
Hi Corno Dolce,

I also saw this piano with a concave keyboard in one of the sites mentioned here. In theory, a concave keyboard is ergonomic as it would take advantage of the natural axis of the shoulders (meaning big intervals and leaps would need less reach and less leaning over to the right or left sides). It's good if people would consider making concave keyboards plus that concept of a dual manual. If I had the money, I probably would have commissioned building such an instrument.


If my memory serves me right, I think some manufacturers have tried building pianos with pedal keyboards albeit little commercial success. This makes me think that the piano might one day, in the right minds, become closer to becoming an organ in itself. :grin:

NEB
Jan-29-2008, 22:38
Woa! Sounds like I could use one of those too. :)

Contratrombone64
Jan-29-2008, 23:22
Hi Daniel Palmer,

Below is the Grand Piano with keyboards at either end:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.egri-pertis.com/shared/pictures/dgoben.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.egri-pertis.com/english/double.htm&h=519&w=263&sz=22&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=sjnzluMWd7LUCM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=66&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddouble%2Bkeyboard%2Bpiano%26svnum%3D1 00%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Looks like a musical push-me-pull-you, eh? LOL

NEB
Jan-30-2008, 00:54
well for an organist the whole concept and ideas for usage shouldn't be alien at all - we do it all the time already...

Contratrombone64
Jan-30-2008, 01:16
*nods head knowingly at NEB*

chromaticism
Jan-30-2008, 03:47
well for an organist the whole concept and ideas for usage shouldn't be alien at all - we do it all the time already...

Precisely. :grin:

Corno Dolce
Jan-30-2008, 08:10
Hi CT64,

"A musical pushmi-pullyu" - ROTFLMAO :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol:

Cheers,

CD :):):)

methodistgirl
Jan-31-2008, 00:28
Hi Corno Dolce,

It was more left open to ponder than seek an actual answer. I would suggest that whatever we came up with as a suitable answer to such a conundrum would at best be lacking in substance or depth, and be pure conjecture.

I'm currently working on the problem of what if during the reformation, the protestant church hierarchy had gotten their own way and had managed to dispose of all organs as being the work of the devil. What course would music have taken and how would it's developement have been effected?

Now I'm presupposing that Buxtehude would have been unable to work, Bach would never have been appointed to Leipsig or travelled to visit his tutor of the moment. Where would we have been artistically?

The answers I can surmise are grim indeed.

That's awful! Just dreadful
judy tooley

NEB
Jan-31-2008, 00:52
It's an interesting set of questions to ponder. It makes on realise the significance and inlfuences of individual composers and the sociological and historical backdrop under which they functioned.

Contratrombone64
Jan-31-2008, 01:35
Bach and Buxtehude both had such profound musical talent that the lack of organs would only have meant they became opera composers or chanelled their talents into other musical endeavours, surely?

NEB
Jan-31-2008, 17:52
I guess you're probably right. Talent will show itself regardless and through the available medium.

methodistgirl
Jan-31-2008, 20:13
I've never understood how the Janko keyboard is employed although I've seen videos of people playing them - seems real easy - so easy that it makes me wonder why it was never adopted by the pianomakers.

I guess that they had already refined production of the keyboard as we know it today so that any change would be atrociously expensive for them. But the more people that know Janko, the more the demand and thus a market is born for Janko and the pianobuilder who captures that market will make a nice living until others jump on the bandwagon.

So really its more than just initial price - its about competing values...

Here's a site with an electric Janko keyboard:


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chromatone_312.jpg&imgrefurl=http://technabob.com/blog/2007/08/09/chromatone-312-key-synth-laughs-in-the-face-of-88-keys/&h=440&w=520&sz=37&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=3TPL6U3ZO5ZhlM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djanko%2Bkeyboard%26svnum%3D100%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

That thing looks like a long buttoned computer instead of a keyboard!
judy tooley