3d film about the neoCon admistration

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Lotus80

Commodore of Water Music
Sorry Priest, I wasn't aware of that. I thought I'd heard that they were Chechen rebels..
 

Frederik Magle

Administrator
Staff member
Regulator
PhotoFixer and Priest, in the future please don't make several posts in a row, if you need to update/add something in a post use the "edit" function.
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
one more question for you PhotoFixer..

have you ever considered that your own government was aware of what happened 9.11, before it happened, but let it happen because it had possibilies.. hence the reason why I earlier recommended you to check out Brzezinski.

Can you honestly say to me, that you believe totally in your government, and that they are interested in the truth and doing the best for everyone?
I do NOT believe in conspiracy, they have done commission after commission, and found nothing... For some fruit cake to come along with some half-baked conspiracy theroy it is out of line. The President NO matter who he is would NOT have let 9/11 happen.
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
Hey Frederik, nice for you to opine
laugh.gif
how ya been?
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
Ever heard of the Reich Tag fire?

One thing is following ones goverment, but not raising questions..

Let me tell you about psychology of power. The higher you get in the hierarchy, the colder the air gets, but the view gets incredible.

When you then look down upon the little people below you.. they gets deranged to be numbers and statistics. Not life and individual faiths.. just numbers.

All these numbers have to get sorted in some way.. that is done by pleasing or neutralizing the ones that can become the biggest opposition to you. With 280 million people, there are a lot of interests. Some interests are going to vote for you, others sponsor your campaign. So there´s a hell of a lot of buttkissing and threatening that has to be done.

If you do go through the trouble of actually reading litterature written by some of the people in power. A lot of their stuff is about how to handle crisis and how to manipulate with the opinion of the people.

This is way of working, is the way that people always have done. Take for an example the senate of Rome in medieval times... people are like people always have been.

Also to apply to understanding I can as well recommend you to dive into thoughts by Machiavelli. Either The Prince or some of his other works. It describes well how to please and do with your population. Sun Tzu also describes it pretty well in The Art of War, written 500 b.c.

Thoughts by these people are the thoughts that yours and my government is based upon.. of course molded and reshaped by tons of generals, politicians and philosophers through times.

Read into these things.. try to understand how a system works, and you will see that governments are not to be trusted.

I don't say that these actions being made are evil.. because they are understandable in the hemispere of power, but the acts that reaches normal people may seem very sinister.

Taking new measures of ideas takes great action.. (again.. Brzezinski).
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
I like your thought, but I have heard it again and again, and the thinking is flawed... To think that Freedom and Liberation is NOT the way out of our problems leaves us where...? Thats right, stuck in a world where innocent people are getting their heads cut off, liberation and freedom for the oppressed in the Muslim world, is the ONLY way to stop the hatred. We need solutions, not wishes of a fantasy that this will just end on its own it takes sacrifice to solve problems, some people said the Japanese could not have a democracy because they had an emperor, well, they have a wonderful country and the Japanese people are great! It is a right for ALL people to be free, and Freedom they shall have...
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
technically I wouldn't call the japanese society a democracy. I can't remember the japanese word for it. A girl I know explained it to me a little while ago.

Japan is a strictly conservative societ. You can vote for presidents and stuff, so in that sort of way it is democratic... but.. power in Japan is a legacy that has given from generation to generation through the times. It is basically a matter of five companies making a union... these 5 companies are the line of old japanese lords, who had gone corporate.

Right now Japan is going low profile because they are scared as Shoot of what the chinese might be doing, so they are spending a lot of time conecting themselves with the chinese economy, entangling themselves within their system, making parallel buisness ventures... one because of the market.. two.. to make it harder for China to wage war upon them.

Well.. It is not that I don't think that people should be liberated.. but it is a long process.. and I don't think that bombing campaigns alone is enough.

The interests the US have in their military ventures are far too clouded, and stinks way too much of the only long term subjects they are heading for is what brings them mammon.

Personally I'm not interested in an all american dominated market. No fence, but your version of "democracy" is not my taste.

Don't get me wrong.. I think that every system has advantages and problems. The way that the US system is put together makes it easier to operate faster in comparison to organs like EU and UN... but.. problem is.. I don't believe in the judging that is taken.


There is one more thing, taken in mind of differences in western and islamic culture.. as well as western culture being divided. In Europe we had the french revolution which gave birth to a long range of ideas.. it bred great thinkers like Kant and many others.. and after many bloody revolts that spread its way all the way to Russia, the power of the church was more or less abolished.

Islam haven't had that changes. That is a problem. No doubt. Religion is very strong there, and with suppressed economy by the western world, this gets even worse.

America, as I see it.. is taking steps back. For each day that passes religion becomes stronger and stronger, merging with the central power of the country. Combined with the patriot act and many other restrictions.. I don't see the US system being anymore sensible than any other form of regime.

If I should look for a regime change I would go look quite another place..

Neoconservatives, members of the European Roundtable of Industries and and saudi princes.. a long with a long list of other bastards. I'm not in favor of terrorists or dictators... just mention that it is worth looking at ones own soil before throwing rocks... or bombs.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
Sorry Priest, I wasn't aware of that. I thought I'd heard that they were Chechen rebels..

they was.. just not all of them.

But there is many from the caucasian regions who haven't had a nice time.. problems work both ways. check the link I posted. It gives an okay insight in the history of the area, and is in itself also holding several sublinks to other sites.


I have been talking about this conflict earlier today with a beautiful russian girl I know.. it is a strange crisis we're having.. every action that is taken is very crucial for the whole world situation. I don't say I have the perfect solution for anything, rather than ask people to think and be critical towards what their leaders say.

Think before you do radical stuff.. before you grasp upon radical opinions.

Unfortunately I don't really believe in the good of mankind. I only believe in the good in some people.

There are the people that are meant to be rallied and there are those who will rally others. The latter dictates how our world looks like, more or less, until someone comes around and rally the morons in a new direction.


The world with its diversity of different cultures, is like a huge puzzle and unfortunately the pieces aren't really fitting together..

right now.. though we might have made huge technological advances.. we are taking several steps backward.. throwing ourselves into a situation that reminds me of crusades / jihad from medival times
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
Personally I'm not interested in an all american dominated market. No fence, but your version of "democracy" is not my taste.
The elections in Afghanistan(the first free elections ever in Afghanistans history)is not your taste? hopefully the elections soon in Iraq are not your taste? I don't understand what your saying... Or if your statement revolves only around economics, maybe your whole problem is rooted in the fact that you are jealous of America? You should remember, after WWII after your Europe was destroyed we did NOT keep it for our own, but we pumped huge amounts of US tax payer dollars into it to rebuild the cities. America is your friend and you should not be jealous of it nor fear it.
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
racism has many forms.

why should I be jealous on America? Too much hypocricy for my taste. I like it here in Europe. If I should move somewhere else I would move to Russia... but that is because Moscow is an awesome town.. and the girls are beautiful.

I actually do fear the States.. not as a direct threat, but because of the consequences of their actions, how it might inflict the rest of the world..

First of.. the american economy is having a very bad time.. it is too huge, to not make a difference to the rest of the world if it crashes. As I described to you earlier.. I see the states as the spark of fire, that will ignite the world situation.

The US consisting of companies with way too much power.. but I don't want to go into this again, because I think I have described my point pretty clearly in the previous posts.

I say capitalism, propaganda and oil interests. You say freedom and liberty. We view the world with different eyes.

At least. Do yourself a favor and study some of the litterature I have recommended you. The sources are of different political opinions, so I am not trying to force a certain agenda upon you.. together the texts give a good insight in what power is and how the human psyche acts. Read and understand some of this stuff... then take in consideration what I have said. I don't say you will agree with me.. but you will look upon things with a lot more nuances than you currently do.
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
I know exactly where your coming from, America has to much power, the American people are stupid rednecks... The American government is run by oil companies.... blah blah blah... you sound like Michael Moore... Bill Clinton gave no bid contracts to Haliburton in Kosovo, thats ok because he's a democrat... Bush does it.... oh hell must be some damn conspiracy! Ever think that maybe the Army likes the way that company operates? Not to many companies can do what Halliburton does, As you know a war zone isn't pretty. Plenty of Halliburton workers have been killed in Iraq(55 so far)
read this article... Good article
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
Sorry but I don't see what this article has to do with anything... of course there is a risk of getting killed if you go to a war zone.

So are they sacred just because they have lost people?

PNAC. Project for the New American Century.

PNAC consists of some of the following people:
Trent Lott, Richard N. Perle, Elliott Abrams, Dick Cheney, Paula Dobriansky, Aaron Friedberg, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle, Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen, Donald H. Rumsfeld, John R. Bolton, Zalmay Khalilzad, Vin Weber, and Paul Dundes Wolfowitz

many of these people have in some ways connections to the oil industry as consultants or board members.

PNAC was formed in 1997 by a mix of conservative politicians and academics.. Already in 1998 under the government of clinton they started to put pressure on the government for a harder line against Iraq, as well as the construction of the missile defence system against so-called rogue states.. which I personally see as a break with the very foundations that NATO was build upon.. the anti-ballistic missile treaty.


The Key positions for PNAC's agenda is the defense strategy document, "Rebuilding America's Defenses". It is divided into the following categories:

1.
“Develop and deploy global missile defenses to defend the American homeland and American allies, and to provide a secure basis for U.S. power projection around the world.”
2.
“Control the new ‘international commons’ of space and ‘cyberspace,’ and pave the way for the creation of a new military service—U.S. Space Forces—with the mission of space control.”
3.
“Increase defense spending, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually.”
4.
“Exploit the ‘revolution in military affairs’ [transformation to high-tech, unmanned weaponry] to insure the long-term superiority of U.S. conventional forces.”
5.
“Need to develop a new family of nuclear weapons designed to address new sets of military requirements” complaining that the U.S. has “virtually ceased development of safer and more effective nuclear weapons.”
6.
“Facing up to the realities of multiple constabulary missions that will require a permanent allocation of U.S. forces.”
7.
“America must defend its homeland” by “reconfiguring its nuclear force” and by missile defense systems that “counteract the effects of the proliferation of ballistic missiles and weapons of mass destruction.”
8.
“Need for a larger U.S. security perimeter” and the U.S. “should seek to establish a network of ‘deployment bases’ or ‘forward operating bases’ to increase the reach of current and future forces,” citing the need to move beyond Western Europe and Northeast Asia to increased permanent military presence in Southeast Asia and “other regions of East Asia.” Necessary “to cope with the rise of China to great-power status.”
9.
Redirecting the U.S. Air Force to move “toward a global first-strike force.”
10.
End the Clinton administration’s “devotion” to the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty.
11.
“North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or similar states [should not be allowed] to undermine American leadership, intimidate American allies, or threaten the American homeland itself.”
12.
“Main military missions” necessary to “preserve Pax Americana” and a “unipolar 21st century” are the following: “secure and expand zones of democratic peace, deter rise of new great-power competitor, defend key regions (Europe, East Asia, Middle East), and exploit transformation of war.”


doesn't sound very pleasant to me... sorry to say...

Following is their own website.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/


other sources
http://www.pnac.info

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/pnac.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_010603_pnac.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/stockbauer1.html

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/pnac.php



Dramatic increase in defense funding results in lucrative contracts to companies like United Defense, that in the first place is connected pretty much to the government.
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
Sounds good to me, Europe is the United States Allie. If you know your history, we won the cold war in part by putting nuclear weapons in Europe... Stratigies change for the threats we face, North Korea now has Nuclear Weapons, if we were still in the ABM treaty we would NOT have any form of defense against their nuclear missles, now we do... It is not a perfect defense but its better than nothing. Wouldn't you want your homeland defended by a missle defense, for an accident? What if Russia has a silo malfunction and a nuclear missle was launched at Copenhagen on accident? The missle defense would have a chance of intercepting it and destroying it. Or what if Iran tryied to destroy our friends in Isreal? Why fear a defensive weapon? As to the reconfiguration of our nuclear weapons the United States is researching a new nuclear weapon, not an air blast, nuclear weapon... but a nuclear bunker buster that could be used to deter or destroy rogue states nuclear cache's... i.e. North Korea or Iran...
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
well.. here comes the point of the discussion where we actually have nothing more to disguss...

.. because.. what you think is a fantastic idea, is what I find as being one of the most freaking and crappy ideas at all, and I think that most of the world outside of America agrees with me on this one, including something like 48 % of the american population.

Why not build a freaking Deathstar while you are at it??

If there's going to be a 3rd world war I have a pretty good idea of who will be to blame.
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
Priest we have already endured past the 3rd world war, it was called the cold war.... we are now on to the 4th World War, and its called the War on Terrorism, it was started with the bombing of the US Marine baracks in Lebanon back in the 80's...
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
I don't care what the [censored] it is called... I still don't think a world war is a good idea.. no matter what it is called. Is that understandable?

Technically the US has been in war with a lot of places during the last 50 years, so I would pretty much say that they keep it as an ungoing event..
 

PhotoFixer3

New member
I don't care what the [censored] it is called... I still don't think a world war is a good idea.. no matter what it is called. Is that understandable?
Priest! WE DID NOT CHOOSE THIS WAR! DID WE ASK FOR OUR MARINE BARACKS TO BE BLOWN UP BY TERRORISTS IN BERUIT IN THE 1980's? DID WE ASK FOR TERRORISTS TO BLOW UP OUR EMBASSYS IN KENYA AND TAZNANIA? DID WE ASK THE TERRORISTS TO BLOW UP THE USS COLE? DID WE ASK THE TERRORISTS TO BLOW UP THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IN 1993? DID WE ASK THE TERRORISTS TO BLOW UP THE AIRPLANE OVER SCOTLAND?
DID WE ASK THE TERRORISTS FOR THE BALI BOMBING? DID WE ASK THE TERRORIST TO KILL THE RUSSIAN CHILDREN IN BESLAN? DID WE ASK THEM TO DESTROY THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON 9/11? NO! THEY STARTED THIS WAR WE ARE HERE TO FINISH!
 

Priest

Commodore of Impending Doom II
keyboard4.jpg


hey.. it seems like your "caps lock" button is broken

If you (the US) wasn't here in the first place or had strong military presence and influence in a lot of other places... trying to reshape and inflict the world to accord to US interests.. then it wouldn't had happened in the first place.

I'm sorry for your losses, but think of how much western influence causes of losses of lifes in the world each day.. due to the fact that we make a living on what other countries don't have.

We like being able to buy cheap stuff... and they are able to make it in countries that we supress. This counts for both the interests of EU and US. We have a responsibility for our actions that we take.

I could go around and blame you for a lot of incidents that US has started during time, but it is not relevant to our current discussion, as well as some of the topics you are bringing up.
 
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