Can you really hear those 64' tones?

[Contratrombone64]

Well, the myth about not being able to hear a 64' anyway, is certainly untrue it seems. Quite a magnificent pipe that must be. From my calculations a grown man would be able to crawl through it, did it lie down ...

Simon

simon - I've now had the wonderful opportunity of crawling around inside the Sydney Town Hall Organ ... and I can say for certain that a grown man would not be able to crawl through it: seems to be the nature of the beast, those reed stops tend to be narrower of bore than, for example, the diapasons. The thing is so long, however that it ascends to the ceiling then bends over on itself and returns to the floor.

 

[Contratrombone64]

That Bach quote ...

I was annoyed with myself because I couldn't remember where I read "his feet fly across the pedals ..." (I paraphrase) but I found the source yesterday: Illustrated Lives of Composers series ... paperback books with colourful cover pages and loads of black and white prints inside.

 

[Piggy]

Someone told me that its only 64' in terms of identifying the pitch on reed pipes. Its the size of the reed itself that dictates the pitch (as in a harmonica, or harmonium, for example). So presumably all that lengthy pipework is to affect the quality of its sound?

I'm sure Mr C T will know the answer

Also, can u fix it for me to have a look at the inside when I come over in 2010?

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Piggy,

Considering how the 64' Contra Trombone for The Sydney organ is scaled and built, the exponential horn aka resonator has to be 64 feet in length in order for the sound wave to be successful in the desired performance. So, the size of the reed itself is just one of the factors involved.

Humbly,

Corno Dolce

 

[Contratrombone64]

I'm no expert in organ accoustics, so I can't answer that ... only to say that the reed of the bottom CCCC is as large as an adult male's forearm. The pipe itself is certainly extremely long (not sure if it's exactly 64') and doubles over itself. It's a full set of pipes, by the way, and the upper octave and something are on the opposite side of the organ. Looking at the organ from the stage, the lowest octave pipes are on the extreme left hand side at the back. The higher octave etc on the right hand side, near the kitchen sink and work benches. Interestingly, these pipes (the ones on the right) don't bend over themselves as they don't have to. I was fascinated to see it, that's for sure. Robert Ampt (City of Sydney organist) will show any organist inside if you give him enough warning.

 

[methodistgirl]

A 36 is on the organ I play and has a C pipe about 12 x12 made of wood
and it growls low! I've played that note. You don't really hear it but it
will make the place around it vibrate close by like the church office.
That is my answer to 64'tones and it's 36'tones.
judy tooley

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi CT64,

Yours truly is also not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. However, I would venture to guess that at 64' pitch, the resonator horn that emerges from the boot of the 64' in Sydney would measure pretty close to 64'. Of course, one could, I surmise, theoretically acheive a 64' reed pitch from a 32' pipe length by doubling the scale of the pipe.

For example, a 32' Bourdon is acheived from a 16' pipe whose scale has been doubled and a stopper plug inserted at the top of the pipe. However, I guesstimate that one doesn't insert a stopper plug at the top of the reed pipe since then no sound would be emitted. A foundation pipe such as the 32' Open Diapason in the facade at the Sydney Town Hall will speak from the visible mouth, not from the top like a reed.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[Contratrombone64]

The central Open Diapason pipe is an interesting creature, as I recently discovered with Mr. Ampt's guidance. We clambered to the top of the organ and saw the top of these enormous central pipes. They are in fact taller than 32' and there is a cut away at the back of the pipe at the point where it should end. For the sake of aesthetics they are extended upwards for pure visual appeal ... quite fascinating. I highly recommend a tour of this beasts' guts.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Judy,

To the best of my knowledge there is no such an animal as a 36' stop on a pipe organ. There are 32' stops. If you pull the 32' stop and depress the low C key and the Low G key a perfect fifth above the low C key, you'll get a 64' resultant rumble.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[methodistgirl]

Hi Judy,

To the best of my knowledge there is no such an animal as a 36' stop on a pipe organ. There are 32' stops. If you pull the 32' stop and depress the low C key and the Low G key a perfect fifth above the low C key, you'll get a 64' resultant rumble.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

There is on the organ at my church! This is wicks for ya as a new
organ. It is on there believe me! I played it today.:smirk:
judy tooley

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi CT64,

Yes, and the pipes will speak as 32', measured from the lower half of the labial to the beginning of the cut-out near the top of the pipe.

Humbly,

Corno Dolce

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Judy,

It doesn't matter who the builder is. What is the Opus number of that Wicks at your Church? I shall access Wicks list of Opus numbers and the stoplist of that organ to verify the existence of a 36' stop. I think somebody other than the organ builder has been *creative* with the stop in question - as in *altered* the face of the stop. I don't think that Wicks would purposely insert a stop that would sound at 36' since that would not be consonant with the rest of the organ. Sorry Judy, this sounds very fishy so in the interest of the organ buffs and we who play the organ as a career, as concert artists, or as a vocation, we need to drill down into this.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[Corno Dolce]

Now, in the interest of deducing this piquant question - this *36' stop* might actually be numbered as 36 on the console but that has nothing to do with the sound wave it emits. So, it'll be interesting to see what the outcome will be. Stay tuned...:grin::grin::grin:

 

[methodistgirl]

Corno wait until I'm sure about it. I might be wrong. I will check again. Just keep it
as cool as you can!
judy tooley

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Judy,

I'm cool as a cucumber :grin::grin::grin: You have piqued my curiosity with your reference to a 36' stop, so I naturally become extremely inquisitive. If I'm wrong, I'll accept responsibility for my errors in this thread and will apologise for my shortcomings.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[methodistgirl]

I forgive you. Just keep this discussion going. I haven't heard from
krommhorn yet! Where is he?
judy tooley

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Ms. Judy,

I hope you don't feel as if I'm out after something since in no way is this to be construed as a hunt. I wish to be enlightened and readers of this forum might become enriched.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[Contratrombone64]

Corno - can you recommend a CD that features an organ using its Gravissima stop (64')?

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi CT64,

The latest solo organ recording by Ian Tracey at Liverpool has him using the 64' Gravissima, albeit sparingly - here's the site:

www.chandos.net

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

 

[Contratrombone64]

Corno - you're a bottomless pit (abyss even) of information, bless you're little cotton socks.