Can you really hear those 64' tones?

[Soubasse]

Distance-wise, Adelaide to Sydney is almost John O'Groats to Land's End but without all the beatifully gobsmackingly mind-numbingly inspiring scenery and amazingly enchanting old cities and buildings that the latter trip offers. The only point of interest between Adelaide and Sydney is Melbourne (and Canberra if you're interested in politicians which let's face it not many of us are). The rest of the landscape I find rather pedestrian (with the possible exception of the Snowy Mountains) which is why I prefer flying - it's all over in a couple of hours.

The Adelaide Town Hall organ is a superb instrument. Having mentioned Thomas Trotter, it was he who gave it its first workout in the Walker factory before it was shipped here. I met Thomas many years back when he played (note perfect as usual!) the Durufle Requiem - an inspiring performance. I kept missing my cues in the Bass part because I was too busy watching him. It was nice meeting up with him at St David's that time (and a few days later in Birmingham). He was over here last year for the Melbourne Organ Festival and came down to Adelaide again. Did a faultless performance of Litanies as a postlude at one of our churches.

By all means, do come on down to Adelaide. Get in touch and I'll see if I can work something out with the Town Hall personell whom I now know relatively well. I'm actually doing a recital later this year so I could probably book you in under the guise of an early practice session

Matt

 

[falcon1]

It sure would be interesting to experience 64' stop live. Quite long way to travel though from Iceland to Australia for that. 32' stop will need to be sufficent for now.

 

[Soubasse]

Just do some quinting with the 32 - who'd know the difference?

Matt

 

[falcon1]

Just do some quinting with the 32 - who'd know the difference?

Matt

I would.

 

[Krummhorn]

Just do some quinting with the 32 - who'd know the difference?

Matt

Darn ... you've been listening to me play - I do this with the 16's to fake a 32
Yah, I know it's not real, but the people who pay my salary like it

Kh

 

[Soubasse]

Haha - that reminded me. I used to play at a Uniting Church and one of the ministers there was one of these guys who thought he knew everything about anything. At the conclusion of the postlude one morning where I played that Toccata thing by that Widor fellow, he said he liked it, but "you know you really should play 5ths in the pedal on the last chord for a stronger finish." I thought Oh here we go. I explained that I prefered that the final chord actually stay in F major because as soon as you played more than one note on the pedals, the wind was so weak that the pitch always dropped. Thankfully, someone distracted him before he could come up with some smartarse response!

I was at another church years before that with a similar priest who never had anything nice to say to anyone. After I'd done an emergency sight-read through a Bach postlude, he said he'd noticed some mistakes in my playing. I simply responded with "That's okay - I heard some in your sermon."
Haven't been back there since.

Matt

 

[Krummhorn]

I was at another church years before that with a similar priest who never had anything nice to say to anyone. After I'd done an emergency sight-read through a Bach postlude, he said he'd noticed some mistakes in my playing. I simply responded with "That's okay - I heard some in your sermon."
Haven't been back there since.

Matt

That's a great comeback, Matt - quick thinking on your part

A similar situation occured once in a protestant church - after months of terse comments, it finally came to a draw when I told him one day, "You know, we are both highly educated professionals in our own field of expertise - tell you what, I don't tell you how to preach and you don't tell me how to play the organ!" Issue dead on the spot, and in fact it vastly improved our working relationship.

Lars

 

[Contratrombone64]

Matt - you're comeback made me laugh. I'll tell that to my clergy on Sunday, they'll roll their eyes, I just know.

 

[Piggy]

"you know you really should play 5ths in the pedal on the last chord for a stronger finish." Matt

When I try that with the S S Organ Symphony, on full organ, including the 64' Contra Trombone, will there be enough wind pressure?

Also, would I need to alert the authorities beforehand, just in case it replicates seismic activity? :smash:

Neil

 

[Piggy]

It sure would be interesting to experience 64' stop live. Quite long way to travel though from Iceland to Australia for that. 32' stop will need to be sufficent for now.

Only JUST a little further than from here, but Im totally sold on the idea of getting there to try it out. :trp:

 

[Piggy]

Thomas Trotter Did a faultless performance

Of course, I am bound to admire him, with such a name as that. I remember a a 'crackling' :grinerformance of some theme by paganini played on the pedals of the Birmingham Town Hall organ.

Piggy

 

[Piggy]

By all means, do come on down to Adelaide. Get in touch and I'll see if I can work something out with the Town Hall personell whom I now know relatively well. I'm actually doing a recital later this year so I could probably book you in under the guise of an early practice session

Matt

That's very nice of you Matt. I don't think I can manage to come before my planned trip in 2010, but if you could possibly rustle up an orchestra then, we could have a bash at the Saent-Saens in Adelaide aswell?

That said, I don't think I've rustled up an orchestra for Sydney yet (open to suggestions)

Also, do they do a music score of just the organ bits? I've looked on the web and I can find a complete score, but I'd rather not have all the orchestra bits for when I'm learning it.

Neil

 

[Piggy]

I kept missing my cues in the Bass part

You mean to say that you do orchestra recitals AND organ recitals? Pretty clever !! :tiphat:

 

[Soubasse]

Hehe, no - for that particular magnificent performance by TT of the Durufle, I was singing bass in the choir. I don't play any other orchestral instrument though, just the King.

 

[Soubasse]

Incidentally, getting back to the 64' theme, there is one organ here in Adelaide that has a resultant 64 (I've completely forgotten what footage that would be!) that is used with an Open Wood 32 but you have to be in the right part of the building to really hear, err, I mean feel it.

 

[giovannimusica]

Very generally speaking, a 64' tone can be had if you draw a 32' and play the lowest C and the G together. If the instrument has a 32' and a 21-1/3 quint stop, draw both and play the lowest C. Some organbuilders will *wire* the instrument so that the pedal division will have a 64' stop derived from a 32' plus it's quint(from the same rank) or from another rank. Apropos a 64' reed cornet - The Ruffatti organ in Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco has a 64' Harmoniques stop in the pedal division with the composition: 32' - 25-3/5' - 18-2/7 flatted. Together with the 64' foundation resultant makes for an interestingly effective rumble-grumble.

Regards!

Giovanni

 

[Piggy]

I think there's a few imitation 64' stops up over (how do you good ozzies refer to that part of the world which occupies the upper hemisphere?) I've never heard one, but if it 'works' in the same way as quinting on a 16', I'm won't be able to tell what I'm supposed to be hearing.

Readers of my ramblings will gather that I am not a 'proper' musician, and no matter how enthusiastically 'proper' musicians explain , nay !- DEMonstrate it to me, I can't get it. Just sounds like playing 2 notes at the same time to me.

No, this is a lifetime ambition I am hoping to achieve, if I am spared and well, to play Saint Saens Organ doo dah on a stonkingly big symphonic organ, and since Sydney is home to one, replete with a proper 64 footer, I just can't wait to try.

Only then will I be able to venture my own comments on whether you really CAN hear those 64' tones.

That said, since Adelaide sounds such a nice place, maybe , Soubasse, you would be willing to find me an introduction, for me to have a go on the imitation 64 footer, and I can compare. (Is it a reed though?)

Plenty of time to plan it - not intending to set foot down under there til August 2010.

 

[Piggy]

The Ruffatti organ in Davies Symphony Hall, San Francisco has a 64' Harmoniques stop in the pedal division with the composition: 32' - 25-3/5' - 18-2/7 flatted.

OK, it may well be better to keep one's mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt..........

BUT, that sounds awfully complicated. Why bother, when they could have just kept it simple and built a proper rank of 64' ?

I don't understand, especially when one tends to think of everything in America as being bigger, why they settled for such an arrangement?

 

[giovannimusica]

Relax Piggy - no need to break out in a sweat, ok?

Let me help you a little with what went in to the Ruffatti. First off: The organ was designed, built and voiced by an Italian firm. Secondly: they(Davies Hall) had a limited budget and thirdly: It had to fit in a relatively small stage. The 64' Harmoniques is indeed a strange stop but it was deemed cheaper to build than a full length 64' which would have had to have been severely *mitred* - see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miter_joint

Also, as to why the three differing lengths of pipes - well, there is a slight bit of elementary mathematics involved to get the correct sound wave-lengths that will approximate the 64' effect i.e. *harmonics*. Its the acoustic effect that is striven for, not so much the sound wave that will cause the rafters to rumble and quake.

I hope that I have succeeded in helping you somewhat to understand.

Regards!

Giovanni :tiphat: :tiphat: :tiphat:

p.s. the world's worst kept secret: The Ruffatti was considered so anemic in its sound when it first was played in concert that an acoustics firm was brought in to install microphones in the pipe chambers which transmitted a signal to powerful amplifiers and many, many, many speakers located throughout the Concert Hall in order to reinforce the organ sound.

That, my inquisitive friend, is a scandal in the Nth degree!!!!!!!

p.p.s. Probably the most successful mating of an organ to a Concert Hall is the 64 stop 86 rank C.B. Fisk organ at the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas, Texas. It certainly is a small instument when compared to the Sydney Town Hall instrument but what it lacks in size it makes up for in sheer quantities of driven sound. No shrieking or ear piercing wails, rather an overwhelming, thunderous cascade of sound that pours down on one(think Niagara Falls) when it is played at SFZ dynamic level. It is also capable of an almost inaudible pianissimo. The builder really did his homework on this baby. Truly, a lesson in *less is more*.

 

[Soubasse]

That said, since Adelaide sounds such a nice place, maybe , Soubasse, you would be willing to find me an introduction, for me to have a go on the imitation 64 footer, and I can compare. (Is it a reed though?)

Hell no, resultants don't work very well with reed ranks (unless someone wants to dispute that - I'm not sure how the laws of physics will help that one but I'm happy to be proved wrong on that one). I have no doubt that Ian - the curator of Sth Australia's largest church organ - would be only too happy to let you have a play so he can brag about how it wouldn't be in the good condition it's in if it weren't for him ... which is quite true by the way.

21-1/3 - that's the one, thanks Giovanni. It's borrowed from softer of the two 32' flues.

not intending to set foot down under there til August 2010.

I may still be alive by then